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How are the OEM headers different from DC, and then different from Z1? I'm sure there's some optimization with length and the collector, and probably reduced weight, but at the end of the day, they're all 3-1 shorties, and you're splitting hairs.
Not trying to be a wiseguy... genuinely curious about the rationale.
I think you nailed it right there Rochester. While it may be negligible , there are graphs on this board and the370z.com to prove they pick up a few ponies; Less than the long-tube variant, though
So a 5-map, mail-in UpRev tune. $300 certainly seems fair.
Figure stock, valet, summer, winter and one 93 octane... about right? (I'm still learning this ch1t, BTW)
Their checklist document could sure use some work.
I totally forgot about the 5 map option and just went with one map. John at Z1 said that is what most people do since the other maps are really for valet and similar applications. You bring up a good point though- I wonder if they have different maps for different octane fuels. Might be fun to have a 110 octane race fuel map. Then again, at $10+/gallon, maybe not. After melting the ABS sensors on the rear diff. at Road America last year, additional heat is probably the last thing my car needs.
Originally Posted by MaQG37
I realize that, but my question if he plans on going with the full Z1 package with their test pipes. By the way he is going, it does not seem like out of reach for him to swap headers and go to a test pipe.
I am keeping the DC headers as I do not think I will gain much from a different set of equal length headers. I got the tune for the Z1 cats, so no test pipes for me.
Originally Posted by Rochester
How are the OEM headers different from DC, and then different from Z1? I'm sure there's some optimization with length and the collector, and probably reduced weight, but at the end of the day, they're all 3-1 shorties, and you're splitting hairs.
Not trying to be a wiseguy... genuinely curious about the rationale.
The Z1 and DC headers appear very similar so I am not sure there is much gain or loss either way there. The difference between the stock exhaust manifold I removed and dedicated equal length DC headers was pretty drastic though. Probably similar to when you removed your stock intake and went aftermarket. I noticed a nice increase in performance and sound with the headers over stock too.
I totally forgot about the 5 map option and just went with one map. John at Z1 said that is what most people do since the other maps are really for valet and similar applications. You bring up a good point though- I wonder if they have different maps for different octane fuels.
They should have different maps for different octane configurations. The 93 should support a more aggressive timing. If getting a tune for 93 resulted in a little gain, I'd do it. Gas is cheap when you don't drive much.
To your point, though, I suspect most people pick one and stick it.
They should have different maps for different octane configurations. The 93 should support a more aggressive timing. If getting a tune for 93 resulted in a little gain, I'd do it. Gas is cheap when you don't drive much.
To your point, though, I suspect most people pick one and stick it.
I think the tune makes a bigger difference than the intakes, and especially the intake plenum. Comparing my stock intake plenum to the Z1 intake plenum- not a ton of material was removed. I think anyone with a dremel or similar tool and some patience could easily achieve the exact same results.
If I remember correctly, you already have short ram intakes, an exhaust, and high flow cats? If Z1 has a map for that combination of upgrades I bet you would notice a pretty nice gain in power if you wanted it. The only problem would be not being able to drive your car for about a week as you ship the ECU and wait for it to return.
I agree with you on sticking with one map. As I get older, I seem to keep comparing myself to Jeremy Clarkson's opinions about cars. When he test drove the E46 M3 CSL he thought the sport button was stupid because he thought the car should be in sport mode the entire time. My thoughts exactly when I owned an E46 M3. Same idea with the G37 tune. For about 12 years straight I drove nothing but tuned Subarus. They all had multiple maps that I could switch to all the time. I only ever used one of the Cobb Tuning maps.
If I remember correctly, you already have short ram intakes, an exhaust, and high flow cats? If Z1 has a map for that combination of upgrades I bet you would notice a pretty nice gain in power if you wanted it. The only problem would be not being able to drive your car for about a week as you ship the ECU and wait for it to return.
FI Resonated high-flow cats, 2.5" FI exhaust, R2C Intake.
Not driving the car for a week... I can do that standing on my head, LOL.
However, I'm more interested in getting it dyno-tuned, and as of yet undecided on UpRev or EcuTek. Not so much for optimizing the gains over the mail-order approach, which I suspect would be negligible, but for the experience. Possibly the road-trip, if that's what happens. We'll see.
Still... nice to see a simple and inexpensive option. Didn't realize that was on the table.
Rochester- that makes sense if you have a decent tuner nearby. The closest tuning shop I have around here is very hit or miss with quality. Z1 felt like more of a sure thing for me, even if I had to drive normal cars for a week while I waited for my ECU to get to them and back. I think the softer suspensions in the OEM cars I was driving made my car feel harsh. Now it does not seem so bad.
So getting back to the recent Z1 parts- let me give you my 2 cents on the Z1 Intake Plenum. I would only do this if you plan to also get the other parts to do their 400hp kit- (cold air intakes, tune, headers, cats, exhaust.) It is a quality part and not terribly expensive, but I am not so sure it makes a huge difference on its own. I think anyone with a dremel or similar tool could remove the same material if they had the skill and patience.
That being said, if you do get the Z1 intake plenum, I will give a few small tips. Be careful when you are removing the hose clamps/hoses as the intake plenum is all plastic so it would not be terribly difficult to snap the connectors off of the intake plenum.
This part ships with the bolts that secure it to the intake manifold since there are two different height decks. Just use the bolts that come with it so it fits. You should be able to re-use the rubber gaskets on the intake and manifold ports.
When you torque the bolts in the center down, start from the middle and work your way out and torque them down to 10ft/lbs. Make sure you tighten the throttle bodies to the intake plenum before you hook up the intakes like I did. Makes things a lot easier. The allen bolts on the throttle bodies do not have a torque spec in the FSM, but torque them down in a star pattern like you would a 4 bolt wheel.
So today I figured I better do something about the front tires rubbing the fender liners. I raised the car up 1/4" on each corner since I noticed it was rubbing slightly in the rear too. It probably only rubs with lots of G-force on the track so my stock height would be fine for the street for most, but it was still too low for a lot of car washes and would catch sometimes on driveways and speed bumps. Hopefully, this will help a bit with all of that.
If you have coilovers, make sure you spray some penetrating lube (PB blaster, WD-40, etc.) into the threads and between the collars before you try moving the threaded collars. If you use the stock wrenches, wear gloves and wrap the wrenches in a few rags so the wrenches don't cut into your hands too much.
I raised the coilovers in front from 1 7/8" to 2 1/8". The rear coilovers went from 1" to 1 1/4". (The pics below show where I was measuring.)
The weird thing is I could never get a solid reading measuring ground to fender, especially in the rear. If I adjusted one coilover it would also affect the other side. The closest measurements I could get are Left Front- 26 3/4 and Right Front- 26 13/16. Left Rear- 26 1/4 and Right Rear- 26 5/8" Strange since the measurement on the coilovers was identical on both sides???
I am curious to see if I notice any difference in ride quality or handling after a few days of driving.
Rear
Front
I also did a temporary solution for the big holes the tires rubbed in the fender liners to make sure I have enough clearance before I get new liners. We will see how well gorilla tape holds up.
The car is definitely a lot more fun to drive with all the new power, but the mileage is definitely not as good as before. I know there are a lot of variables that go into this, but I would say it drops about 2mpg.
I drive mostly city with about 1.5 miles highway on my way to work and back. If I drive it like your grandmother I average about 20.5 mpg on that trip. Now I am getting about 18.3 mpg on the same drive. Still not bad, all things considered. Not enough to make me regret switching out all the parts and getting the tune.
Part of it might also be that I was probably running a bit lean with DC headers, high flow cats, and Stillen exhaust before I got a tune. A little extra gas to keep from running lean is probably not a bad idea.
The car is definitely a lot more fun to drive with all the new power, but the mileage is definitely not as good as before. I know there are a lot of variables that go into this, but I would say it drops about 2mpg.
Hmmm. Mileage should go up with a tune, not down.
I got about 2-3 mpg better on my mx5 after a tune than before, including all the same mods. Give it hell, sure, you get way less, but for putting around town I would expect better. Max power occurs at max efficiency, that's why it may seem backwards at first
I got about 2-3 mpg better on my mx5 after a tune than before, including all the same mods. Give it hell, sure, you get way less, but for putting around town I would expect better. Max power occurs at max efficiency, that's why it may seem backwards at first
You put headers and an intake plenum on a Miata?!? That must have been a fun car. How did it sound opened up?
Making the tune more rich to avoid detonation would use more gas, so it makes sense to me. Kind of like adding injectors that flow more fuel when you add even more power (obviously, on a smaller scale).
A little tip if anyone gets these or similar intakes- put some thin grease on the inside of the silicone tubes where they meet up with the metal pipes to ease installation. Also put a lot of grease outside the L-shaped silicone tubes where they go through the plastic radiator support.
Don't try to muscle the parts together like I did or your head might explode. The Stillen gen 3 intakes must have a smaller diameter pipe or require you to remove a lot of material from the radiator support to get them to fit. I would look into this if you are considering the Stillen intakes as the Z1 are a tight, nearly impossible fit, without the grease. If Stillen says you need to remove material from the radiator support, I would probably pass as there is a lot of material to remove in that section and the Stillen support staff is terrible.
You put headers and an intake plenum on a Miata?!? That must have been a fun car. How did it sound opened up?
Making the tune more rich to avoid detonation would use more gas, so it makes sense to me. Kind of like adding injectors that flow more fuel when you add even more power (obviously, on a smaller scale).
It was great fun! But that's why I bring up the fuel economy, because mine got MUCH better after the tune, but that was a custom road tune rather than just a base flash. You start with the base flash and then run back and forth with the tuner with 'road dyno' logs about 6 or 8 times before calling it done. I don't know how much Z1 push the first flash, but I got a lot out of mine through the iterations. Obviously, a proper dyno tune would be best, but Murphy usually dictates that the good shops are too far away to be a suitable option for a visit.
02-06-2017, 05:09 PM
That must have been a fun car. How did it sound opened up? 
The Stillen gen 3 intakes must have a smaller diameter pipe or require you to remove a lot of material from the radiator support to get them to fit. I would look into this if you are considering the Stillen intakes as the Z1 are a tight, nearly impossible fit, without the grease. If Stillen says you need to remove material from the radiator support, I would probably pass as there is a lot of material to remove in that section and the Stillen support staff is terrible.
