Pet peeve: No, you're not faster with VSC off
04-05-2016, 09:57 AM
#76
Administrator
iTrader: (9)
04-05-2016, 09:59 AM
#77
Nothing to refute Nissan labeling what you incorrectly claim is an emergency brake a parking brake?
No comment on the Motor Vehicle Safety Standards for parking brakes?
No explanation of the "emergency" that forced you to stop or slow the car with the parking brake?
Nothing to say about disabling the brake lights to slow down in a pack of cars (the original example that started this)?
I'll give you a few minutes to think up another personal attack, or maybe a witty jpg.
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mummy2 (10-06-2021)
04-05-2016, 10:03 AM
#78
Administrator
iTrader: (9)
Hey... Are you OK? Is there something else going on here besides you being unable to extricate yourself from being wrong? I'm torn between laughing at you, and being genuinely concerned.
I'd like to pursue the latter, but you make the former so very, very easy.
I'd like to pursue the latter, but you make the former so very, very easy.
04-05-2016, 10:13 AM
#80
Administrator
iTrader: (9)
I think things were going fine until I made the mistake of telling Lego that he misunderstood my comment. (The horror! LOL) Since then, it's been like a Cobert interview with Cartoon Trump.
04-05-2016, 10:22 AM
#81
Registered User
It was actually interesting for a while. I'd like to read some theories on why track times are better w/o TC. I was assuming that only applied to short circuit Auto-X, based on personal experience. But someone said the same about course tracks.
I think things were going fine until I made the mistake of telling Lego that he misunderstood my comment. (The horror! LOL) Since then, it's been like a Cobert interview with Cartoon Trump.
I think things were going fine until I made the mistake of telling Lego that he misunderstood my comment. (The horror! LOL) Since then, it's been like a Cobert interview with Cartoon Trump.
04-05-2016, 10:30 AM
#83
I've never advocated using the parking/emergency brake to slow down. You did.
I'm not referring to past cars as having "emergency" brakes when the manufacturer specifically refers to them as parking brakes. You did.
You seem to be stuck that parking brake emergency brake due to the slight difference in design. Emergency brake is a layman term that is commonly used incorrectly, as you continue to do.
Are you always like this when you're wrong?
04-05-2016, 10:37 AM
#84
Administrator
iTrader: (9)
I learned long ago that being wrong is OK. Gray hair, feet of clay... all the stuff that comes with getting old. You, on the other hand... good luck learning that lesson. Clearly it eludes you here. OMG, it eludes you in a hu-u-u-u-ge way.
But if you want to stop (before this thread gets shut down, or we get banned
), I'm more than happy to let you go. Like I said, you don't even have to apologize.
Tell you what, I'll unsub here if you do. And in the future, I'll respect your personality quirks and try to never ever tell you that you're wrong about anything. Does that work for you? Heck, I'll even go first, as a gesture of good faith. And as a bonus, it gives you that coveted last-word, which we both know you can't not have. (You're welcome.)
Come on, do the same, buddy, and let's go back to whatever we had before.
/unsubbed
But if you want to stop (before this thread gets shut down, or we get banned
), I'm more than happy to let you go. Like I said, you don't even have to apologize. Tell you what, I'll unsub here if you do. And in the future, I'll respect your personality quirks and try to never ever tell you that you're wrong about anything. Does that work for you? Heck, I'll even go first, as a gesture of good faith. And as a bonus, it gives you that coveted last-word, which we both know you can't not have. (You're welcome.)
Come on, do the same, buddy, and let's go back to whatever we had before.
/unsubbed
Last edited by Rochester; 04-05-2016 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Crickets. And now I'm unsubbed ;-)
04-05-2016, 11:02 AM
#85
As I see it, it is a parking brake. Some parking brakes work better than others.
My 99 Altima's parking brake can easily lock up the rears, my 2001 530's parking brake can't hold the car on a 10% grade. My G37 is somewhere in the middle.
Now back to VDC:
VDC off is faster as long as you don't spin out / go wide on turns.
Often what is faster, feels slower. Just ask any autocross driver.
With any car, I think it is VERY important to understand how well any technology works. I got caught in a bad snow storm and a 3 hour drive became 7 hours. I know have a full understanding of how and when the VDC system kicks in and when it makes sense to turn it off.
Our VDC system has two distinct stages: slight increase of brake pressure on outside wheel (if spinning to the left, outside wheels are on the right) then strong pulsing brake pressure on outside wheel with engine power reduction. This rotates the car in the opposite direction of the spin/slide.
The tuning of the VDC system on the G37 Sport may be different than the others, but generally it works very well and does not get in the way.
My 99 Altima's parking brake can easily lock up the rears, my 2001 530's parking brake can't hold the car on a 10% grade. My G37 is somewhere in the middle.
Now back to VDC:
VDC off is faster as long as you don't spin out / go wide on turns.
Often what is faster, feels slower. Just ask any autocross driver.
With any car, I think it is VERY important to understand how well any technology works. I got caught in a bad snow storm and a 3 hour drive became 7 hours. I know have a full understanding of how and when the VDC system kicks in and when it makes sense to turn it off.
Our VDC system has two distinct stages: slight increase of brake pressure on outside wheel (if spinning to the left, outside wheels are on the right) then strong pulsing brake pressure on outside wheel with engine power reduction. This rotates the car in the opposite direction of the spin/slide.
The tuning of the VDC system on the G37 Sport may be different than the others, but generally it works very well and does not get in the way.
04-05-2016, 11:37 AM
#86
Lets consider the following failure:
You're on the interstate driving at say 80 mph in an express lane with barricades on either side and no place to pull over (for a while). The car stalls and a brake line blows when brakes are applied. What do you do?
I had something similar happen. Brake line did not blow but the car died out and would not restart. Because it was an MT, initial thought was to shift into neutral. That allowed some momentum to get to a pull off area. The pull off area however is very short (maybe 150 ft). Car may have 2-3 brake applications before vacuum assist runs out. Was able to come to a stop, but near the end of the pull off area. A strong "emergency" brake would of prevented some of the panic.
You're on the interstate driving at say 80 mph in an express lane with barricades on either side and no place to pull over (for a while). The car stalls and a brake line blows when brakes are applied. What do you do?
I had something similar happen. Brake line did not blow but the car died out and would not restart. Because it was an MT, initial thought was to shift into neutral. That allowed some momentum to get to a pull off area. The pull off area however is very short (maybe 150 ft). Car may have 2-3 brake applications before vacuum assist runs out. Was able to come to a stop, but near the end of the pull off area. A strong "emergency" brake would of prevented some of the panic.
04-07-2016, 06:00 PM
#87
So lets see if I can steer this train back onto the track. Speaking of tracks the article makes a good point about TCS, VDC, and similar systems being banned from lots of racing because it can make you faster if "tuned properly." That's a key point.
On the street I would agree that in most situations it is nice to have VDC and TCS on to help you avoid unexpected bad situations from becoming worse.
However, on the track my laps were always faster with it off for two reasons. One- the limits are much higher on the track than they are on the street so the factory electronic systems are not tuned properly in most cars. Two- you are faster around a track when you are sliding just a little bit. The factory electronic systems in the cars I have driven so far on the track over all the years were not programmed for that.
The one caveat to that would be newer performance cars that have different modes for the stability control systems for the track. Has anyone tried these on different cars and actually had faster lap times? I have not tried any of these newer systems tuned specifically for the track yet.
The only car I had that was close was the '14 Evo I got rid of right before I got my G37S. You could turn off all the stability control systems, but leave on the active braking for the yaw control. If I was not driving at the absolute limit, say 8/10th's my lap times would be faster with the active braking on. However, if I drove 10/10th's with it shut off my lap times were quicker than with it on at 10/10th's. I can see that system making some inexperienced drivers faster
On the street I would agree that in most situations it is nice to have VDC and TCS on to help you avoid unexpected bad situations from becoming worse.
However, on the track my laps were always faster with it off for two reasons. One- the limits are much higher on the track than they are on the street so the factory electronic systems are not tuned properly in most cars. Two- you are faster around a track when you are sliding just a little bit. The factory electronic systems in the cars I have driven so far on the track over all the years were not programmed for that.
The one caveat to that would be newer performance cars that have different modes for the stability control systems for the track. Has anyone tried these on different cars and actually had faster lap times? I have not tried any of these newer systems tuned specifically for the track yet.
The only car I had that was close was the '14 Evo I got rid of right before I got my G37S. You could turn off all the stability control systems, but leave on the active braking for the yaw control. If I was not driving at the absolute limit, say 8/10th's my lap times would be faster with the active braking on. However, if I drove 10/10th's with it shut off my lap times were quicker than with it on at 10/10th's. I can see that system making some inexperienced drivers faster
04-07-2016, 10:58 PM
#89
Interesting read...
Don't Touch That Button: Turning Off Stability Control Is Dumb and Dangerous
Don't Touch That Button: Turning Off Stability Control Is Dumb and Dangerous
04-08-2016, 09:34 AM
#90
Great article. I really like this point:
"I explain that you can actually go faster by using the ESC warning light to train yourself. When you see it flash, ask yourself what you did to upset the car's balance, and fix it the next time. "
"I explain that you can actually go faster by using the ESC warning light to train yourself. When you see it flash, ask yourself what you did to upset the car's balance, and fix it the next time. "
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dragion (04-10-2016)