papagz

refs have ruined this game, even tho the spurs were slow and very banged up. 3 days rest will do them good and get back to the normal spurs

lilmauwow

You are right about game 6 and game 7. He did take the appropriate shots to keep the Lakers in game 6 and that was the only way for the Lakers to win. The first half they were rolling but then his teammates decided not to show up in the second half of game 6. In game 7 his teammates didn't show up at all. He started lighting it up in the second quarter and cut the defecit to 15 at the half. We all know what happened afterwards. So its not about him playing bad becuase I don't think he played bad. Its about him choosing to play so different and so out of character. I don't know what ot say if you think there wasn't something behind him only taking 3 shots in a game 7. Its mind boggling how you can defend his character as a basketball player after playing like that in the second half. What great player in the history of the NBA would give up like that? You cannot argue he gave up, simply can't.

You wanna know why Lebron's teammates are able to convert his assists? Because he is a better playmaker getting his teammates involved, there is no shame in that. Like I said before, Kobe has more skills as a basketball player by a wide margin vs Lebron and many other players in the NBA. HIs work ethic is unmatched and he earned his way to be the best skilled player in the NBA. But there are more to that just skills when leading a team to a championship. If you put Lebron on the Lakers, you'd have the same amount of assists. If you replaced Jason Kidd with Kobe Kidd would average his same assists and the same goes with Nash. Look at Lebron's previous year, he had worse teammates than the Lakers this year and he had more assists that year. Fact is players like Nash, Kidd, Lebron, MJ, Magic, and the old Shaq made players better than they were. They made bad players good, good players great. Has Kobe done that in any part of his 10 year career? I'd pick Kobe to make the last shot to win the game then I'd pick Lebron to lead my team to the championship.

lilmauwow

Yeah they defintely look super tired. Parker looked all banged up and needs that rest. Still they are the champions and you gotta find a way to hold serve. Mavs played super good, they really need to win this series in 6 games or less. Becasue they won't win a game 7 in the SBC Center.

terryw

lets see, he takes all the shot and you blame him for playing selfishly, he passes the ball to his open teamates and you blame him for giving up. In the post game interview phil said he was the one that told Kobe to change tactics. Kobe was just doing what Phil told him to do, he didnt give up, the plan didnt work thats all. Im sure you know the type of personality Kobe has, he might not be the best leader or team player, he never gives up. If he wanted give up he could have given up at any point, why work so hard to get to game 7 and give up? I dont care how big of a kobe hater you are, you should know better to ever claim that Kobe gave up. I could tell Kobe was trying hes best to play within the triangle offense, it was not a bad strategy and its worked in game 2-4, it just didnt work on that night. In the triangle, you have to pass the rock if you are doubled, its a motion offense based on spacing. If he said "fck Phil" and started jacking and still lost the game, what would Kobe haters be saying then?? probably the good ol' "had he gotten his teamates involved they would have won" comment. its catch 22 for him.

Lebron is a better team player and playmaker than Kobe, too bad he dosnt play D. and if you try to compare the Lakers to the Cavs at any year since Lebron got in the league. How many times have we seen Kwame miss layups? or the rest of the team breaking wide open jumpers? Beside Odom the rest of the team is offensively challanged, no one can create their own shot. The Cavs always had better offensive players that can finish not just this year. How does a lineup featureing Illgauskus an all star last year, Gooden who routinely plays out of the low block, Jeff McInnis, and Varejo (strong finisher) be offensively worse than Odom, walton, parker, and kwame? Aside from Odom can any of them even beat out any starter on last year's Cavs? or most of the NBA team for that matter? Kwame got beat out by Michael Ruffin last year before he got permanently benched! so lets not compare his offensive game to the big Z or Gooden or Varejo. Hell a lot of team's back up point guards are better than Parker (averaged 3.0 points per game last year for the suns playing behind barbosa). How can you say Kobe dosnt make them better when Kobe is one of the top assist leaders for shooting guards?? 5.9, 5.1, 6.0, 4.5 for the last 4 seasons vs Lebron's 5.9, 7.2, 6.6?? those are great numbers for a shooting guard, he lead all the shooting guard, 2nd only to D wade this year. Kobe averaged more assists than Jordan did in all his championship years, which was well below 5 assits per game and sometimes dip into the 3s. aside from Odom, stats for every player in the regular rotation all went up from last year! Stats isnt everything though, making the playoffs winning 45 games in a tough western conference dosnt count?

They all played hard every night, and they were just out talented. without Kobe they are the worst team in the league, the ATL and Charlotte have more talent than them. what are you basing your claim that Kobe dosnt make hes teamates better when he lead this team of misfits to the playoffs and took the #2 seed to game 7?

Like I said while Lebrone is a better team player, until he starts to play D which he should be able to very well considering how rediculously athletic he is, he has Ron Artez' body but hes much quicker. Until then hes not as good as Kobe. As a basketball player whose played organized basketball and still plays every week I know how hard it is to play D, you exert much more energy on D than on offense. I give mad props for people who play hard on both ends of the floor. People forget what a good defender Kobe is.


'Love me or hate me, it's one or the other. Always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fadeaway, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved, for the exact same reasons."

btw no pun intended its fun arguing about basketball, theres no animosity between us, we are just 2 basketball fans arguing about basketball.

G35_TX

iTrader: (3)

Duncan was playing the best he has in a long time. Surprisingly making all his free throws. lol. But the damn Refs and Dallas playing dirty didn't go so well.

Pratik

iTrader: (3)

Terry you gotta stop swingin on Kobe's d!ck. Fact is he wanted to a prove a point in the 2nd half of the game. If I don't shoot my team doesnt win. That is SELFISH. Dont get me wrong, its tough being Kobe (You shoot too much you're selfish and you dont shoot you're selfish too) but all he's gotta do is play team ball.

Never see Lebron or Jordan play that way. He scored what? 20+ in the first half and only attempts 2 shots int he 2nd? I dont think thats Phil's gameplan. He knew Kobe had to shoot in order for them to win.

After the game, what did Kobe do? Just go straight to the locker room. No shaking Nash or Marion's hands. Kobe's classless and I love seeing him lose. He's a punk. He didnt deserve MVP.

Ironically he finished FOURTH in the MVP voting. Obviously my opinions are supported by voters.

terryw

whats team ball? playing within the triangle is not team ball? taking all the shots is not team ball? as long as he dosnt win hes not playing "team ball." how do you know kobe was trying to prove a point? Prove it. because Phil Jackson says otherwise.

is it not possible that he believes in phil and just wanted to see it through playing the way hes coach told him to play? who did you think told him to change his game 2nd half of game 6 to take over? the same person ADMITED during the post game interview that he told kobe to play the triangle and pass more in 2nd half of game 7. It worked in game 2-4, so why are you so sure that he was trying to prove a point instead of trying to win the game?
HE WAS taking over in the first half and it didnt work this time, so why is it so inconcievable to change tactics if having kobe dominate didnt work out in the first half?

you know whats giving up? if he gave up he wouldnt have played any D. Yet he was still running up and down the court hard and playing D. Why would he work so hard on the other end if he gave up??? Im sorry but someone who gave up dosnt play like that, someone trying to loose a game 7 on purpose to prove a point dosnt need to play D. HE never get gets the benefit of the doubt from you guys, despite that hes always played hard every game.

but it really dosnt matter, unless he wins, you haters are going to say sh*t about him no matter how he plays. you know its true, because yall talked sh*t about him even when he made it a close game and took them to OT. Let alone a crushing defeat. If he dosnt win, hes selfish. I already said earlier that he played terrible in game 7, except he was playing the way he was told.
Ofcourse yall would make him shoulder all the blame.

Say im on his d*ck all you want, hes one of my favorite players. Ill defend him when hes hated on.

terryw

No pratik, just becuse hes 3rd in MVP votes does not mean the voters agree with you that he threw the game trying to prove a point.

I agree hes got personality flaws, hes a sore looser and naive and immature.
but hes a competitor, he didnt shake hands is a terrible act of unsportsmanship on kobes part, but its also evidence that he cares about winning. he was obviously sad that hes team didnt win. A person who dosnt care about winning and threw the game on purpose dosnt need to feel bad like that. He would have been shaking hands making jokes and talking about what clubs to hit after the game.

i can understand you criticizing his terrible personality, but dont be so quick to judge his game just because you dont like him as a person.

Pratik

iTrader: (3)

Dude just because you dont shake hands doesnt mean its evidence he cares about winning. Everyone cares about winning. Everyone has the desire to win at that level. Its how you handle the situation and Kobe just doesnt well. Sore loser.

Questions right now:
If I had a game winning attempt who would I want to take it? Kobe.
If I had to build my franchise around 1 player? Lebron.

terryw

yeah he had a pretty good game last night. Duncan is one of my favorite bigmen because hes mr fundamental, hes game dosnt look pretty but he is so efficient and understands the game. i dont know if he can keep it up though, hes just looks so flat this entire season compared to past years. He needs this summer bad. The refs did call the game very tight, but i dont think Dallas played dirty.

terryw

well at least you admit he cares about winning. Everyone knows kobe isnt a good sportsman, I dont like his personality either. it seems you guys let that distaste for his personality influence how you view his game.

and i agree, if i want to build a franchise id pick lebron too, hes not as good as kobe now, but he has the potential to be better.

Pratik

iTrader: (3)

Yes, I consider sportsmanship the overall scope of a player. What you see on the court is a lot different then what you see in the locker room, his own players dissin him, lots of tension causes players to play bad, etc.

Lets be honest though. As a good free agent out there would you even want to play with the Lakers? Hell no, you know Kobe's gonna be shootin 30 shots a night and you're lucky if he even passes the ball you can get some decent looks. That 2nd half of the last game said a lot about Kobe. He's starting to become a cancer. He's 27, Lakers should just trade his a$$ and get some good young players that can learn the triangle under Jackson!

terryw

why wouldnt free agents want to play with Kobe? All the star wing players take that many shots. Kobe is 2nd in the league in assists for shooting guards behind wade. Lebron takes 23 shots a game! Gilbert, Pierce, Carmelo, Wade, AI, Tmac, they all take around the same number of attempts. The only people with more assists in this list is Lebron and Wade. How can you be 2nd in assists if you dont pass the ball? Every player's scoring in Lakers regular rotation went up except for Odom who averaged 2 points less. How can you say playing with Kobe dosnt make players better?

as for being a cancer, I dont remember anyone dissin him besides shaq. And reguarding the Big guy, he has an ego too. lets not forget he was beefing hard with Penny back in Orlando. you have example of any of the current lakers dissin him? you have example of hes past teamates, Fisher, Fox, Horry, Shaw etc dissing him? I dont remember Odom, or Luke, or Parker or Kwame ever dissin Kobe? The only things ive heard is that kobes trying to be a leader this year in the lockerroom. The fact is, hes not a great leader, but hes not a bad teamate either, and far from a cancer in the locker room.

furthermore how does 2nd half of game 7 suggest hes becoming a cancer? he was playing in the triangle like phil told him to and passing the rock. if hes trying to throw the game and prove a point, why does he need to work hard on Defense? why didnt Phil pull him out of the game? why did Phil back him up during post game interview? Why did Phil go back to LA? he demands top $ no matter where he wants to coach at. without Kobe this team would have problem winning even 20 games in the west. Hes only lead them to the playoffs with 45 wins and took the #2 seed to game 7. hes a cancer?

lilmauwow

All good, I don't get personal in here like alot of the immature kids here. Often times you know you are right when people resort to insults rather than a debate.

So on your first paragraph, I'm not criticizing Kobe on game 6. I thought he did what was appropriate to win the game in regulation and overtime. In game 7 I don't understand how taking 3 shots involves everyone to get in the game. Yeah Phil said his stuff and so did Kobe after the game. Are you saying Kobe isn't talented enough to involve his teammates and get his own? Nash took more shots in the second half and he invovles his teammates 10 times better than Kobe. Kidd, Jordan, Bird, MJ, Payton, Shaq can take more than 3 shots in a half and involve his teammates. So here's 3 logical explanations. Kobe tries to involve his teammates but at the expense of his own output. Kobe increases his output but at the expense of his teammates. or lucky door number 3, Kobe gave up on game 7 in the fourth quarter. 3 shots is ridiculous in a game 7. I don't care what politically correct thing Phil or Kobe said.


I'm sorry, just becuase he averages 6 assists and averaged more than Jordan you can start comparing him in terms of ability to make his teammates better?
Where in Kobe's 10 year career has he given his teammates career years? When has he ever shown the ability to make other players better while making himself better? And I like how you mentioned Jordan ONLY averaged 3 assists per game on year in his championship years while comparing him to Kobe. You also fail to mention that he was fricken 36 years old when that happened lol. I hope you recognize that just because Kobe has 6 assists per game, doesn't make him a team player. You want an example? Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, Baron Davis all players who averaged more assists than Kobe. Statistics can be misleading. Same goes for steals, Iverson gets tons of steals, doesn't make him a good defender. Fact is his teammates weren't better than they were in the regular season. Fact is his teammates weren't better in the playoffs than in the regular season. So how is Kobe making them better?


Kobe did not lead the Lakers into game 7. Kobe led his team to 3 wins, there is a big difference between the two. Anyone who says this or beleives this is delusional. Kobe and the Lakers choked thier way to game 7. Steve Nash and the Suns led the series to game 7. And how can you say Kobe makes his teammates better when he couldn't lead his team to 1 win to clinch the series. How can you say he is a good teamamte and leader when he walks out without congratulating the suns when some of his teammates and coach are.

Kobe's defense actually got worse this year because of the heavy offensive load he carried throughout the regular season. Yes we've seen Kobe play great defense, but where was he in the first round? He couldn't stop anyone. He didn't try to defend Nash once. Kobe does not deserve to be on the first defensive team this yaer. I agree Lebron needs to play defense, but he is fricken 21. Along with his shot, he'll improve his defense over time. I think Kobe had so much time to improve his leadership and teamwork, its virutally pointless to think he'll change. And don't give me his current teammates suck, remember he 3+ years ago he had championship caliber teammates and his leadership and teamwork were at the same level....non existent.

lilmauwow

4th in MVP votes.

We never questioned his attitude about winning. Its how he goes to achieve it which will never make him one of the greatest winners in the history of the NBA. There is no excuse for why he immediatly left after the game, thats poor leadership. Its no different than Isiah leading some of his teammates right after the Bulls clinches the series, its poor leadership regardless of how much you want to win.