Suggested alignment specs for G37S sedan on Tein Basis?
01-27-2016, 11:02 AM
#1
Suggested alignment specs for G37S sedan on Tein Basis?
I have a '13 G37S sedan on Tein Basis coilovers that is mostly a daily driver, but will see some track days this year. I am probably going to run sticky street 19" 245's up front and 275's in the back. (RE-71R's probably) Anyway, we tried a quick alignment at work and could not get it quite to spec.
Just wondering if most people use cam bolts or different control arms in this situation. Also what are recommended alignment specs to have decent grip on track, but tire longevity is probably more important as it will probably be 95% street driven, 5% track days.
Just wondering if most people use cam bolts or different control arms in this situation. Also what are recommended alignment specs to have decent grip on track, but tire longevity is probably more important as it will probably be 95% street driven, 5% track days.
02-02-2016, 05:40 PM
#2
Dialing in the aliment with the bolts are annoying, I watched a guy once take an hour just to get my rear end dialed in and I'm about 100% sure the settings slipped when I tracked the car last. I've been waiting for a good deal on mid-links so I can get rid of the stupid bolts. I normally would do my own alignment but with what we have going on in the rear I'll just pay someone to deal with it. There's a shop near me that works on high-end exotics and track cars, they have a one time charge for alignment and you can get it tweaked after that for free with in a six month period. I would call around and see if you have a place similar near you if your looking to track the car, it will save you money in the long run if you change settings a lot.
As for "recommended alignment specs to have decent grip on track" it would most likely depend on the track, car setup, and what you drive like. I like to use the trued method of a temp gun to dial in camber, your looking for even temps across the whole tire with maybe a 10 degree increase on the inner edge. Get as much caster as you can get for the front. And with toe its a matter of driving preference. I like the toe zeroed out in the front and rear, but some people will find that gives them a "twitchy" car. Most like a little toe-in up front (0.1~0.3) and up to 0.3~0.5 in the rear (toe-in as well); which should help a lot with turns.
EDIT: Just realized that I have no clue what sway bars and setting you have them at, spring rates, or bracing. That up front toe-in recommendation might give you more understeer then you want so you might want to go with zero toe up front or a little toe-out.
As for "recommended alignment specs to have decent grip on track" it would most likely depend on the track, car setup, and what you drive like. I like to use the trued method of a temp gun to dial in camber, your looking for even temps across the whole tire with maybe a 10 degree increase on the inner edge. Get as much caster as you can get for the front. And with toe its a matter of driving preference. I like the toe zeroed out in the front and rear, but some people will find that gives them a "twitchy" car. Most like a little toe-in up front (0.1~0.3) and up to 0.3~0.5 in the rear (toe-in as well); which should help a lot with turns.
EDIT: Just realized that I have no clue what sway bars and setting you have them at, spring rates, or bracing. That up front toe-in recommendation might give you more understeer then you want so you might want to go with zero toe up front or a little toe-out.
Last edited by zer099; 02-02-2016 at 06:03 PM. Reason: Addition
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blnewt (02-02-2016)
02-09-2016, 10:37 PM
#3
I plan to run hotchkiss sways on the car. I have easy access to an alignment rack so I can adjust it fairly often. I have an infrared heat gun for the tires to check my alignment specs on each track if I get really serious. I was just curious how much camber most people are running front/rear for occasional track days without cupping their tires on the street since this car will mainly be daily driven.
Oddly, I have had good luck with cam bolts in the past on other cars. Do most people really replace the front and rear control arms on these cars to get the camber back in spec once they are lowered?
Oddly, I have had good luck with cam bolts in the past on other cars. Do most people really replace the front and rear control arms on these cars to get the camber back in spec once they are lowered?
02-09-2016, 11:29 PM
#4
I've read that the bolts can loosen during track conditions, negating your alignment. SPL makes a midlinks that replace your spring bucket arm and offers toe adjustment and ride height for your spring. You can then install the SPL lockout bolts to prevent movement in the toe hole. That's getting pretty intense, though. The parts ain't cheap.
SPL Midlinks
SPL Midlinks
02-10-2016, 11:41 AM
#6
I've read that the bolts can loosen during track conditions, negating your alignment. SPL makes a midlinks that replace your spring bucket arm and offers toe adjustment and ride height for your spring. You can then install the SPL lockout bolts to prevent movement in the toe hole. That's getting pretty intense, though. The parts ain't cheap.
SPL Midlinks
SPL Midlinks
Very true. Unfortunately "Cheap" and "Quality" rarely go together.
02-17-2016, 05:55 PM
#7
So it looks like we can get everything lined up within spec except for the front and rear camber. The front is only off by about .25 or .3, but the rear is off by .75+. I think I should be able to get the rear back into spec with adding adjustable rear camber arms and maybe I can get close in the front when I raise the height slightly.
How much negative camber are you guys running front and back before your tires start cupping?
I am wondering if I can get away without replacing the front upper control arms.
How much negative camber are you guys running front and back before your tires start cupping?
I am wondering if I can get away without replacing the front upper control arms.
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02-19-2016, 08:59 AM
#8
I don't have coil-overs, but I just installed SPL front upper control arms on my car and got:
Front:
0 toe
-2.4 camber
+7.4 caster
Rear:
0.03 degrees toe (probably going to put 0.5-1 here after testing)
-2.0 camber
Car is stock ride height, only mod is the front arms, but they are bottomed out to get that camber/caster. If you're lowered then you'll get better static camber due to neg camber gain built in to the suspension so could get either more camber or caster as you prefer.
I drive 60 miles a day commute and autocross 1-2 time per month, but the tyres were being ruined with the stock setup. Tyre wear is just so much higher tracking that I doubt a setup for daily driving will save you tyre life, but that depends what sort of roads you have to drive on daily, mine is arrow straight interstate, so it's not hard on tyres at all.
Front:
0 toe
-2.4 camber
+7.4 caster
Rear:
0.03 degrees toe (probably going to put 0.5-1 here after testing)
-2.0 camber
Car is stock ride height, only mod is the front arms, but they are bottomed out to get that camber/caster. If you're lowered then you'll get better static camber due to neg camber gain built in to the suspension so could get either more camber or caster as you prefer.
I drive 60 miles a day commute and autocross 1-2 time per month, but the tyres were being ruined with the stock setup. Tyre wear is just so much higher tracking that I doubt a setup for daily driving will save you tyre life, but that depends what sort of roads you have to drive on daily, mine is arrow straight interstate, so it's not hard on tyres at all.
02-19-2016, 12:27 PM
#9
I don't have coil-overs, but I just installed SPL front upper control arms on my car and got:
Front:
0 toe
-2.4 camber
+7.4 caster
Rear:
0.03 degrees toe (probably going to put 0.5-1 here after testing)
-2.0 camber
Car is stock ride height, only mod is the front arms, but they are bottomed out to get that camber/caster. If you're lowered then you'll get better static camber due to neg camber gain built in to the suspension so could get either more camber or caster as you prefer.
I drive 60 miles a day commute and autocross 1-2 time per month, but the tyres were being ruined with the stock setup. Tyre wear is just so much higher tracking that I doubt a setup for daily driving will save you tyre life, but that depends what sort of roads you have to drive on daily, mine is arrow straight interstate, so it's not hard on tyres at all.
Front:
0 toe
-2.4 camber
+7.4 caster
Rear:
0.03 degrees toe (probably going to put 0.5-1 here after testing)
-2.0 camber
Car is stock ride height, only mod is the front arms, but they are bottomed out to get that camber/caster. If you're lowered then you'll get better static camber due to neg camber gain built in to the suspension so could get either more camber or caster as you prefer.
I drive 60 miles a day commute and autocross 1-2 time per month, but the tyres were being ruined with the stock setup. Tyre wear is just so much higher tracking that I doubt a setup for daily driving will save you tyre life, but that depends what sort of roads you have to drive on daily, mine is arrow straight interstate, so it's not hard on tyres at all.
That seems like a lot of negative camber for a daily driver. Does anyone else run that much camber on the street without cupping their tires?
02-19-2016, 02:02 PM
#10
I know what you mean about autocross tearing up your tires. I mainly do road courses so it does not kill my tires quite so quickly. I also live in WI so there are about 6months out of the year that I cannot drive on a track. When I do, it is maybe only once a month.
That seems like a lot of negative camber for a daily driver. Does anyone else run that much camber on the street without cupping their tires?
That seems like a lot of negative camber for a daily driver. Does anyone else run that much camber on the street without cupping their tires?
IE: you might want to run 2.5degrees on the track and 1.5 degrees on the street and you measure that to be 3.5 full turns. Well, you just mark and count it out. They can be adjusted at home on the car with a socket wrench and a long extension at normal ride height.
02-19-2016, 02:06 PM
#11
The great thing about the SPL camber arms is that once you set to a point that you like for the track, you can simply loosen and adjust one side of the camber arm a fixed number of turns measured on an alignment machine and have your 'street' setup.
IE: you might want to run 2.5degrees on the track and 1.5 degrees on the street and you measure that to be 3.5 full turns. Well, you just mark and count it out. They can be adjusted at home on the car with a socket wrench and a long extension at normal ride height.
IE: you might want to run 2.5degrees on the track and 1.5 degrees on the street and you measure that to be 3.5 full turns. Well, you just mark and count it out. They can be adjusted at home on the car with a socket wrench and a long extension at normal ride height.
02-22-2016, 01:28 PM
#13
I was pretty happy with my alignment on my last road course in November. I did notice some understeer, but I attributed it to my crappy tires. I got the tires to test sizing and have been waiting for them to wear out before replacing them. Ultimately I have opted to get a set of dedicated track wheels/tires, but I digress.
Front:
-0.75 camber
0.03 toe
Rear:
-1.3 camber
0.10 toe
Front:
-0.75 camber
0.03 toe
Rear:
-1.3 camber
0.10 toe
02-22-2016, 02:08 PM
#14
So I got out to the track today for an autocross and the car was great!
My peak G loading went from 1.10 to 1.15 lateral G and my sustained long radius sweeper G loading went from 0.95 to 1.02. That's a 5-7% increase JUST IN ALIGNMENT.
The last time out I was 1.8s slower than a gentleman in a Porsche Cayman S and this time I was 0.1s faster, so I am super happy. Well, happy and sad because the data logging showed that I was 0.8s faster on my last run for the day before I hit a cone (rear end. again. every single run I hit a cone with the rear end that I couldn't keep in check with such low toe) and gave up on the run. I cannot get over how much better the car feels and it's not finished yet either.
Tyre temperatures were good, with the inside about 10 degrees hotter than the outside and the middle temp sitting right in between with the same pressure as before. Tyre wear is also MUCH better, with the inside of the front tyres showing wear now where-as before they looked untouched. The understeer is gone and now when the front tyres slip they don't make that high-pitched screech that comes from running on the outside edge, instead they give that harsh shudder that shows the whole tyre surface is in contact and slipping over the concrete.
My peak G loading went from 1.10 to 1.15 lateral G and my sustained long radius sweeper G loading went from 0.95 to 1.02. That's a 5-7% increase JUST IN ALIGNMENT.
The last time out I was 1.8s slower than a gentleman in a Porsche Cayman S and this time I was 0.1s faster, so I am super happy. Well, happy and sad because the data logging showed that I was 0.8s faster on my last run for the day before I hit a cone (rear end. again. every single run I hit a cone with the rear end that I couldn't keep in check with such low toe) and gave up on the run. I cannot get over how much better the car feels and it's not finished yet either.
Tyre temperatures were good, with the inside about 10 degrees hotter than the outside and the middle temp sitting right in between with the same pressure as before. Tyre wear is also MUCH better, with the inside of the front tyres showing wear now where-as before they looked untouched. The understeer is gone and now when the front tyres slip they don't make that high-pitched screech that comes from running on the outside edge, instead they give that harsh shudder that shows the whole tyre surface is in contact and slipping over the concrete.
Last edited by Splitter; 02-22-2016 at 03:09 PM.
02-23-2016, 09:03 PM
#15
So I got out to the track today for an autocross and the car was great!
My peak G loading went from 1.10 to 1.15 lateral G and my sustained long radius sweeper G loading went from 0.95 to 1.02. That's a 5-7% increase JUST IN ALIGNMENT.
The last time out I was 1.8s slower than a gentleman in a Porsche Cayman S and this time I was 0.1s faster, so I am super happy. Well, happy and sad because the data logging showed that I was 0.8s faster on my last run for the day before I hit a cone (rear end. again. every single run I hit a cone with the rear end that I couldn't keep in check with such low toe) and gave up on the run. I cannot get over how much better the car feels and it's not finished yet either.
Tyre temperatures were good, with the inside about 10 degrees hotter than the outside and the middle temp sitting right in between with the same pressure as before. Tyre wear is also MUCH better, with the inside of the front tyres showing wear now where-as before they looked untouched. The understeer is gone and now when the front tyres slip they don't make that high-pitched screech that comes from running on the outside edge, instead they give that harsh shudder that shows the whole tyre surface is in contact and slipping over the concrete.
My peak G loading went from 1.10 to 1.15 lateral G and my sustained long radius sweeper G loading went from 0.95 to 1.02. That's a 5-7% increase JUST IN ALIGNMENT.
The last time out I was 1.8s slower than a gentleman in a Porsche Cayman S and this time I was 0.1s faster, so I am super happy. Well, happy and sad because the data logging showed that I was 0.8s faster on my last run for the day before I hit a cone (rear end. again. every single run I hit a cone with the rear end that I couldn't keep in check with such low toe) and gave up on the run. I cannot get over how much better the car feels and it's not finished yet either.
Tyre temperatures were good, with the inside about 10 degrees hotter than the outside and the middle temp sitting right in between with the same pressure as before. Tyre wear is also MUCH better, with the inside of the front tyres showing wear now where-as before they looked untouched. The understeer is gone and now when the front tyres slip they don't make that high-pitched screech that comes from running on the outside edge, instead they give that harsh shudder that shows the whole tyre surface is in contact and slipping over the concrete.
