12.92 Drag Radials only!
11-17-2008, 04:40 PM
#107
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I've been around drag racing for well 15 years now and I understand what cars can and can't do when it comes to traction and power to weight. A 3700lb, 275whp car with fairly weak torque curve (about 220whq) simply doesn't have enough juice to go 108mph. 104mph on really good day with sea level or sub sea level, maybe. It takes a 3,300lb 98-02 Z28 6MT about 305whp/310wtq to get 108mph traps and that's is EXCEPTIONAL air. 105-106mph is the norm. The power to weight differences are about 10.8:1 for the Z28 and 13.5:1 for the G37 coupe. Most importantly, the LS1 has an immense powerband. Much larger than that of the VQ37HR. Trap speed IS the indication of available HP to the wheels. End of story. The argument that gearing plays a role is BS because cars like the G or Z have nearly perfect gearing from the factory. This isn't like 2 speed Powerglide.
Then there's the 60 foot. A 1.83 60' on factory 18" to 19" tires? No way. Not possible, even with the most insane track prep. A 1.95 might be possible in the best scenario, a 2.0 would be exceptional, a 2.1 typical, and a 2.2 normal. A 1.69 60' on DRs, especially 18" DR, ain't happening. A 1.69 60' on full blown 26" slicks and a lighter 350Z (3200-3300lb) and I'd say totally believable. But a 1.69 60' on 18" DRs, a 3700lb car, and 220wtq? Nope. If it was a 1.8 60' on slicks then it's believeable, but again under great conditions and prep.
One of more of the following things offer explanation here:
1) You're lying and posting some other cars slips
2) You got the wrong slips
3) There's something wrong with the track timing equipment
IMO, someone's lying. Those slips look VERY much like what you'd see from a 6MT LS1 F-body on slicks. Even better is the fact that on race day it was an F-Body event. Hmmmmm......
I'm not a magazine racer, but I've seen more than 4 tests of 6MT and 5AT G37 coupes. They're solid 13.9-14.2@101-103mph cars in the hands of magazine drivers and those time ARE CORRECTED TO SEA LEVEL CONDITIONS. I've contended for years that you can take a car to the strip and under the right conditions, can beat mag times by around .3 seconds and 2mph. Most people run slower times than those posted by the mags, but there are always a handful exceeding mag times due to great DA, great driving, launch, and lighter setups (low fuel, no spare, etc). It all helps.
My point is the G37 coupe doesn't have enough left of the table to add 5 to 6mph and drop .5 to .7 seconds, regardless of driving or conditions.
Then there's the 60 foot. A 1.83 60' on factory 18" to 19" tires? No way. Not possible, even with the most insane track prep. A 1.95 might be possible in the best scenario, a 2.0 would be exceptional, a 2.1 typical, and a 2.2 normal. A 1.69 60' on DRs, especially 18" DR, ain't happening. A 1.69 60' on full blown 26" slicks and a lighter 350Z (3200-3300lb) and I'd say totally believable. But a 1.69 60' on 18" DRs, a 3700lb car, and 220wtq? Nope. If it was a 1.8 60' on slicks then it's believeable, but again under great conditions and prep.
One of more of the following things offer explanation here:
1) You're lying and posting some other cars slips
2) You got the wrong slips
3) There's something wrong with the track timing equipment
IMO, someone's lying. Those slips look VERY much like what you'd see from a 6MT LS1 F-body on slicks. Even better is the fact that on race day it was an F-Body event. Hmmmmm......
I'm not a magazine racer, but I've seen more than 4 tests of 6MT and 5AT G37 coupes. They're solid 13.9-14.2@101-103mph cars in the hands of magazine drivers and those time ARE CORRECTED TO SEA LEVEL CONDITIONS. I've contended for years that you can take a car to the strip and under the right conditions, can beat mag times by around .3 seconds and 2mph. Most people run slower times than those posted by the mags, but there are always a handful exceeding mag times due to great DA, great driving, launch, and lighter setups (low fuel, no spare, etc). It all helps.
My point is the G37 coupe doesn't have enough left of the table to add 5 to 6mph and drop .5 to .7 seconds, regardless of driving or conditions.
Last edited by DaveB; 11-17-2008 at 04:43 PM.
11-17-2008, 04:49 PM
#108
I've been around drag racing for well 15 years now and I understand what cars can and can't do when it comes to traction and power to weight. A 3700lb, 275whp car with fairly weak torque curve (about 220whq) simply doesn't have enough juice to go 108mph. 104mph on really good day with sea level or sub sea level, maybe. It takes a 3,300lb 98-02 Z28 6MT about 305whp/310wtq to get 108mph traps and that's is EXCEPTIONAL air. 105-106mph is the norm. The power to weight differences are about 10.8:1 for the Z28 and 13.5:1 for the G37 coupe. Trap speed IS the indication of available HP to the wheels. End of story. The argument that gearing plays a role is BS because cars like the G or Z have nearly perfect gearing from the factory. This isn't like 2 speed Powerglide.
Then there's the 60 foot. A 1.83 60' on factory 18" to 19" tires? No way. Not possible, even with the most insane track prep. A 1.95 might be possible in the best scenario, a 2.0 would be exceptional, a 2.1 typical, and a 2.2 normal. A 1.69 60' on DRs, especially 18" DR, ain't happening. A 1.69 60' on full blown 26" slicks and a lighter 350Z (3200-3300lb) and I'd say totally believable. But a 1.69 60' on 18" DRs, a 3700lb car, and 220wtq? Nope. If it was a 1.8 60' on slicks then it's believeable, but again under great conditions and prep.
One of more of the following things offer explanation here:
1) You're lying and posting some other cars slips
2) You got the wrong slips
3) There's something wrong with the track timing equipment
IMO, someone's lying. Those slips look VERY much like what you'd see from an LS1 F-body. Even better is the fact that on race day it was an F-Body event. Hmmmmm......
I'm not a magazine racer, but I've seen more than 4 tests of 6MT and 5AT G37 coupes. They're solid 13.9-14.2@101-103mph cars in the hands of magazine drivers and those time ARE CORRECTED TO SEA LEVEL CONDITIONS. I've contended for years that you can take to the strip and under the right conditions, can beat mag times by around .3 seconds and 2mph. Most people run slower times than those posted by the mags, but there are always a handful exceeding mag times due to great DA, great driving, launch, and lighter setups (low fuel, no spare, etc). It all helps.
My point is the G37 coupe doesn't have enough left of the table to add 5 to 6mph and drop .5 to .7 seconds, regardless of driving or conditions.
Then there's the 60 foot. A 1.83 60' on factory 18" to 19" tires? No way. Not possible, even with the most insane track prep. A 1.95 might be possible in the best scenario, a 2.0 would be exceptional, a 2.1 typical, and a 2.2 normal. A 1.69 60' on DRs, especially 18" DR, ain't happening. A 1.69 60' on full blown 26" slicks and a lighter 350Z (3200-3300lb) and I'd say totally believable. But a 1.69 60' on 18" DRs, a 3700lb car, and 220wtq? Nope. If it was a 1.8 60' on slicks then it's believeable, but again under great conditions and prep.
One of more of the following things offer explanation here:
1) You're lying and posting some other cars slips
2) You got the wrong slips
3) There's something wrong with the track timing equipment
IMO, someone's lying. Those slips look VERY much like what you'd see from an LS1 F-body. Even better is the fact that on race day it was an F-Body event. Hmmmmm......
I'm not a magazine racer, but I've seen more than 4 tests of 6MT and 5AT G37 coupes. They're solid 13.9-14.2@101-103mph cars in the hands of magazine drivers and those time ARE CORRECTED TO SEA LEVEL CONDITIONS. I've contended for years that you can take to the strip and under the right conditions, can beat mag times by around .3 seconds and 2mph. Most people run slower times than those posted by the mags, but there are always a handful exceeding mag times due to great DA, great driving, launch, and lighter setups (low fuel, no spare, etc). It all helps.
My point is the G37 coupe doesn't have enough left of the table to add 5 to 6mph and drop .5 to .7 seconds, regardless of driving or conditions.
One thing I have learned from breaking records (yea I also was one of the pioneer drag racers trying to get a stock 10 second slip from a C6 Z06, unfortunately I couldnt) there will always be people to question you, and call you a liar. To you I say thanks, thats a sincere form of flattery saying what I've accomplished is unbelievable
Also your figures are way off for the Z28, I am a previous owner of a 2002 Z28 M6, T-tops, 16" wheels, it tipped the scales at 3570'ish with a 1/4 tank of gas in it. The Z28 is far from a 3300lb car. (hence why i was at an f-body event).
As far as the 60' arguement goes, PRP is known for good prep, the end.
11-17-2008, 05:27 PM
#109
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instead of dumping money into high dollar turbo kits you should've taken some physics classes, and fundamentals of drag racing.
1.) my DA that day was +45FT, not 800.
2.) Explain how FWD hondas can hole shot to 1.6 60' with drag radials or slicks on a well prepped track with 140lbs of tq. Don't use power to weight theory because it goes in favor of the G37.
3.) sounds like homelessdrunk needs to learn how to shift, and when to shift, I dont lift my gas pedal when shifting, this has always proven to get more mph and ET out of any run.
4.) Timeslip has been provided, the end. If you question it, thats your problem not mine. Go take your turbo car out and beat my stock/dr time. Until then keep practicing.
1.) my DA that day was +45FT, not 800.
2.) Explain how FWD hondas can hole shot to 1.6 60' with drag radials or slicks on a well prepped track with 140lbs of tq. Don't use power to weight theory because it goes in favor of the G37.
3.) sounds like homelessdrunk needs to learn how to shift, and when to shift, I dont lift my gas pedal when shifting, this has always proven to get more mph and ET out of any run.
4.) Timeslip has been provided, the end. If you question it, thats your problem not mine. Go take your turbo car out and beat my stock/dr time. Until then keep practicing.
11-17-2008, 06:53 PM
#112
Guys, Stay on topic, this thread was to post Seer's results. If you disagree, fine. Post why you disagree and you can discuss it like adults. Don't post ***** and instigate. This thread is getting outta hand. just agree to disagree, and if you don't have a comment that is directed towards the topic of the thread, don't post it.
11-17-2008, 06:57 PM
#113
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I'm out if this thread... I agree with every thing DaveB said so there is no more point of me staying here and arguing.
OP,
Good luck and if you get a chance then go to atco and prove us wrong.
OP,
Good luck and if you get a chance then go to atco and prove us wrong.
11-17-2008, 07:06 PM
#115
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well said, unfortunately nobody is lying in these posts, nor is the track equipment messed up. This track hosts national IHRA events.
One thing I have learned from breaking records (yea I also was one of the pioneer drag racers trying to get a stock 10 second slip from a C6 Z06, unfortunately I couldnt) there will always be people to question you, and call you a liar. To you I say thanks, thats a sincere form of flattery saying what I've accomplished is unbelievable
Also your figures are way off for the Z28, I am a previous owner of a 2002 Z28 M6, T-tops, 16" wheels, it tipped the scales at 3570'ish with a 1/4 tank of gas in it. The Z28 is far from a 3300lb car. (hence why i was at an f-body event).
As far as the 60' arguement goes, PRP is known for good prep, the end.
One thing I have learned from breaking records (yea I also was one of the pioneer drag racers trying to get a stock 10 second slip from a C6 Z06, unfortunately I couldnt) there will always be people to question you, and call you a liar. To you I say thanks, thats a sincere form of flattery saying what I've accomplished is unbelievable
Also your figures are way off for the Z28, I am a previous owner of a 2002 Z28 M6, T-tops, 16" wheels, it tipped the scales at 3570'ish with a 1/4 tank of gas in it. The Z28 is far from a 3300lb car. (hence why i was at an f-body event).
As far as the 60' arguement goes, PRP is known for good prep, the end.
There's nothing shocking about a C6 Z06 going 10s. It's possible. Find a good track, some great great prep, great DA, and some slicks and it's a done deal. That's a no brainer. Any car capable of 125mph in the 1/4 mile is more than capable of a 10-second run assuming a 1.5-1.7 60 foot. Out of the box, it's an easy 11.4-second ride on runflats. What you were trying to accomplish is nothing groundbreaking. Squeezing another 4 tenths out of a traction limited car is nothing. Add tires. Done deal.
As for you G37 running 12.9s@108mph on DR pulling 1.6 60 foots, it's BS. Whether you're lying, whether you got the wrong slip, etc. I don't care how good of a driver you are, you're not squeezing that much MPH out of that car unless you've got some sort of power added you're not telling us about. No way in hell is that car seeing 106mph, much less 108mph. I don't care if you could shift faster than a sequential manual, it really holds no bearing on MPH. MPH is not something you can mess up assuming you shift at the correct rpm. ET is the hard part. Blow your launch and you'll run .5 seconds slower. Get a good launch and your set. Either way, your trap speed will hardly vary (maybe 1mph). Powershifting doesn't add power. Period. To say that powershifting increases trapspeed simply wrong. Do you not understand the physics of drag racing and acceleration potential? Increasing your shift speed holds no real baring on power placed to the ground because you're talking about mere hundreths of a second. The ET difference between powershifting and quickshifting is a mere .1 seconds, if that. MPH wise, no difference. I've powershifted my friends 5.0 LX notch at the strip numerous times as well as my old VQ Maxima. The ET difference aren't even worthwhile for the potential damage and there's no difference in MPH.
Trey Hutchinson on G35driver.com has a heavily modded NA 06 6MT sedan on DRs. He runs at Steele, AL and that's a quick track. He has been dragging his 06 for about 4 years now and has about 400 passes. He runs on DRs and is pulling 13.2@104mph with 1.8 short times. The car is powershifted as well. His car weighs 3,350lbs without him and it makes 265whp/230wtq. His times make total sense. Then there's his wife. She owns an 08 6MT G35, stock. The best she can gets is 14.2@99mph and the best he's done is 14.0@100mph with 2.1 60 foots. So my question is how can a car like the G37 coupe that weighs an additional 250lbs over the HR sedan and a whopping 450lbs more than Treys 05 G and has 10-15whp more than the G35HR sedan be running 13.4s@106mph and a 12.9@108mph on DRs? It doesn't make sense. Mag drivers aren't the best, but their times are corrected and the trap speeds are the indicators of potential ET with traction and skill. The G37c simply doesn't have remotely the right power to weight to be going 106-108mph in the 1/4 mile. It's just not possible.
11-17-2008, 08:41 PM
#116
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You must have had lead in that Z28. As a previous owner of a modified 94 Z28 4AT, low option, no t-top car, my Z tipped the scales at 3420lbs. My friends low option 99 Z28 4AT with the alum block LS1 vs the iron block LT1 used in my 94 Z28 weighed in at 3,320lbs. Both cars had around 1/4 tank of fuel and no driver. Another friend's loaded 02 Z28 6MT with t-tops with 18s and some structural enhancements weighed in at 3,405lbs. These numbers are consistent with those that you will find on any of the F-Body sites.
There's nothing shocking about a C6 Z06 going 10s. It's possible. Find a good track, some great great prep, great DA, and some slicks and it's a done deal. That's a no brainer. Any car capable of 125mph in the 1/4 mile is more than capable of a 10-second run assuming a 1.5-1.7 60 foot. Out of the box, it's an easy 11.4-second ride on runflats. What you were trying to accomplish is nothing groundbreaking. Squeezing another 4 tenths out of a traction limited car is nothing. Add tires. Done deal.
As for you G37 running 12.9s@108mph on DR pulling 1.6 60 foots, it's BS. Whether you're lying, whether you got the wrong slip, etc. I don't care how good of a driver you are, you're not squeezing that much MPH out of that car unless you've got some sort of power added you're not telling us about. No way in hell is that car seeing 106mph, much less 108mph. I don't care if you could shift faster than a sequential manual, it really holds no bearing on MPH. MPH is not something you can mess up assuming you shift at the correct rpm. ET is the hard part. Blow your launch and you'll run .5 seconds slower. Get a good launch and your set. Either way, your trap speed will hardly vary (maybe 1mph). Powershifting doesn't add power. Period. To say that powershifting increases trapspeed simply wrong. Do you not understand the physics of drag racing and acceleration potential? Increasing your shift speed holds no real baring on power placed to the ground because you're talking about mere hundreths of a second. The ET difference between powershifting and quickshifting is a mere .1 seconds, if that. MPH wise, no difference. I've powershifted my friends 5.0 LX notch at the strip numerous times as well as my old VQ Maxima. The ET difference aren't even worthwhile for the potential damage and there's no difference in MPH.
Trey Hutchinson on G35driver.com has a heavily modded NA 06 6MT sedan on DRs. He runs at Steele, AL and that's a quick track. He has been dragging his 06 for about 4 years now and has about 400 passes. He runs on DRs and is pulling 13.2@104mph with 1.8 short times. The car is powershifted as well. His car weighs 3,350lbs without him and it makes 265whp/230wtq. His times make total sense. Then there's his wife. She owns an 08 6MT G35, stock. The best she can gets is 14.2@99mph and the best he's done is 14.0@100mph with 2.1 60 foots. So my question is how can a car like the G37 coupe that weighs an additional 250lbs over the HR sedan and a whopping 450lbs more than Treys 05 G and has 10-15whp more than the G35HR sedan be running 13.4s@106mph and a 12.9@108mph on DRs? It doesn't make sense. Mag drivers aren't the best, but their times are corrected and the trap speeds are the indicators of potential ET with traction and skill. The G37c simply doesn't have remotely the right power to weight to be going 106-108mph in the 1/4 mile. It's just not possible.
There's nothing shocking about a C6 Z06 going 10s. It's possible. Find a good track, some great great prep, great DA, and some slicks and it's a done deal. That's a no brainer. Any car capable of 125mph in the 1/4 mile is more than capable of a 10-second run assuming a 1.5-1.7 60 foot. Out of the box, it's an easy 11.4-second ride on runflats. What you were trying to accomplish is nothing groundbreaking. Squeezing another 4 tenths out of a traction limited car is nothing. Add tires. Done deal.
As for you G37 running 12.9s@108mph on DR pulling 1.6 60 foots, it's BS. Whether you're lying, whether you got the wrong slip, etc. I don't care how good of a driver you are, you're not squeezing that much MPH out of that car unless you've got some sort of power added you're not telling us about. No way in hell is that car seeing 106mph, much less 108mph. I don't care if you could shift faster than a sequential manual, it really holds no bearing on MPH. MPH is not something you can mess up assuming you shift at the correct rpm. ET is the hard part. Blow your launch and you'll run .5 seconds slower. Get a good launch and your set. Either way, your trap speed will hardly vary (maybe 1mph). Powershifting doesn't add power. Period. To say that powershifting increases trapspeed simply wrong. Do you not understand the physics of drag racing and acceleration potential? Increasing your shift speed holds no real baring on power placed to the ground because you're talking about mere hundreths of a second. The ET difference between powershifting and quickshifting is a mere .1 seconds, if that. MPH wise, no difference. I've powershifted my friends 5.0 LX notch at the strip numerous times as well as my old VQ Maxima. The ET difference aren't even worthwhile for the potential damage and there's no difference in MPH.
Trey Hutchinson on G35driver.com has a heavily modded NA 06 6MT sedan on DRs. He runs at Steele, AL and that's a quick track. He has been dragging his 06 for about 4 years now and has about 400 passes. He runs on DRs and is pulling 13.2@104mph with 1.8 short times. The car is powershifted as well. His car weighs 3,350lbs without him and it makes 265whp/230wtq. His times make total sense. Then there's his wife. She owns an 08 6MT G35, stock. The best she can gets is 14.2@99mph and the best he's done is 14.0@100mph with 2.1 60 foots. So my question is how can a car like the G37 coupe that weighs an additional 250lbs over the HR sedan and a whopping 450lbs more than Treys 05 G and has 10-15whp more than the G35HR sedan be running 13.4s@106mph and a 12.9@108mph on DRs? It doesn't make sense. Mag drivers aren't the best, but their times are corrected and the trap speeds are the indicators of potential ET with traction and skill. The G37c simply doesn't have remotely the right power to weight to be going 106-108mph in the 1/4 mile. It's just not possible.
Last edited by JS71796; 11-17-2008 at 08:50 PM.
To bad I we cant afford it... Yeah right..
11-17-2008, 10:14 PM
#118
Registered User
looks like the 35'ers have invaded the board and are trying to make some sort of sense of Seer's times...
...maybe the only thing to shut them up is a vid plus a look in the engine bay...maybe not...lol.
...maybe the only thing to shut them up is a vid plus a look in the engine bay...maybe not...lol.
11-17-2008, 10:38 PM
#120
Registered User
i know...but doubters will always mag race, make simple math calculations to determine hp/weight ratios, and use different cars on different tracks and on different conditions as a resource...a time slip and a picture of the engine bay will not suffice for 35'ers....oh well...