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First, some are using a Modshank intake mod. I have no idea how that affects the performance either way.
Second, the OP comparison does not include what the alternative SG3 would do under the same conditions. Assuming the IAT coming through the radiator port into the standard intake is the same temp the SG3 would be pulling in...
Then they raised the question of the big shiny metal tubes both aftermarket intakes have and question if the engine heat, conducted through the tubes and raised the IAT.... IMO probably not unless the pipes were so hot you couldn't touch them...the air passes through them pretty quickly and wouldn't likely be there long enough to raise much.
Then they talked abut IAT after a 10 min idle... For me that's immaterial, I'm not launching straight out of a Wendy's drive-through. I might spill my frosty! (okay frostys can't actually spill...but you know what I mean)
Finally the last post someone else had his SG3 observations...but that was on a completely different setup, in a different location, with different conditions. But either way, his results were inconsistent and at times similar to the R2c
So AFAIC I still do not see significant information to validate the heat-soak concern in this thread.
But there is a thread in this forum where the OP had numbers indication the temps weren't much different than LT intakes.
Again, IMO if the intake is drawing air through the stock port and has a shield with hood and baffle gaskets, it would have to draw air fast enough to overwhelm the stock baffle port to create a vacuum and suck in warm air. Otherwise the majority of the flow would come from the path of least resistance...the stock radiator baffle port.
Seems logical...unless there are numbers to show otherwise.
[/quote 370Z thread]
I have the gen 3 Stillen and have been monitoring the intake temps pretty closely. Really wished I had monitored the stock intake for comparison, but the first thing I noticed was the long thin shinny tubes that were bound to suck up heat. Wrapped them with two layers of insulated heat barrier and then started to monitor the intake temps.
Frankly they seem to be all over the board and I've not found a consistent pattern except when driven on the hwy for extend periods. Not counting stop n go traffic, they seem to be as low as 6 degrees above ambient when driven "briskly" on a back road, however sometimes they run 12-14 degrees hotter.
Think your ambient temps being lower plus I have a black car is another factor.
The sensor that monitors intake temps is located with the passenger side MAF and I just put an addition two layers of heat barrier over that sensor to see if it helps. Been trying to tune the car and noticed there is a direct correlation to water temps and probably also intake temps pulling out timing. I've seen a 3-4 degree difference in timing also 10 hp on the dyno just in temp differences. [/quote]
I still believe the SG3 is likely the best engineered product on the market. They surely put a spit-ton of design and testing time into it.
But I haven't seen evidence the R2c is far behind in performance, I have however seen some to show it holds it's own.
Some folks claim the R2c has a risk of heat soak, and others claim the SG3 risks hydro lock.
I think both risks are minimal except under extreme conditions.
Where is your heat soak test showing that there is no heat soak?? Searching.. nope nothing..(see how this works?)
Does not work that way big hoss,
The burden of proof is on you because you're disapproving a factual claim by the manufacturer. They produced claims through professional testing equipment and environment that the R2C creates HP that is similar to the CAI. You produce butt dyno that it does not and stated it as a fact... I did not disapprove any claim that is fact based and I actually stated:
Originally Posted by G37sGraphite
Heck I am not saying I am right, just want to see proof. I do know that this came up in a different car I had, and the difference was minimal at best regarding the differences in a non track used car.
When I had R2cs the metal on the tubes retained more heat than the plastic OEM tubes. (sorry no tests) When taking off from extended idle or stop and go traffic there was a clear reduction in initial power delivery. Others on the forum shared similar experiences.
So they have professional test equipment and you have hot fingers and a butt dyno...
You don't have take anyone's word for it. Your mind is already made up. So just buy them for yourself and enjoy. You can then compare and dyno then report back to the forums to counter my assessment.
I dont sell CAI or a competitor of RC2s so I have nothing to "prove" and am not incline to test or search for tests to provide you with the "proof" that you desire nor did I promise you such proof. I dont care if you decide to buy or not to buy them.
My mind is not made up regarding your un fact based claims. Heck you may be right I understand heat soak at the track unsure about in a daily driving situtation. However, the burden of proof is not on me I did not claim to know for sure anything. Otherwise I would not be asking for proof. ...but don't get butt hurt if I ask you to man up and prove what you are stating as "fact" if you cant then fine ....bye
Simply- there is a lot of valuable information on this forum from individuals who have experienced and reviewed many mods without "tests". You can chose to A) take the information with a grain of salt, B) ignore it completely c) Buy and test for yourself and offer the contribution that you so urgently are seeking as "proof".
Tons of great information on the forum already know that. I have worked on cars for a long time and tested tons of mods I installed myself so I know what may be B.S. and what may not be....so I am not "urgently seeking" proof. I am only wanting to see if what you are claiming as fact is fact...or just more butt dyno.
For the benefit of others who want to hear the opinion of those of us who have installed short-ram intakes including R2Cs; Many who "drive daily" can easily discern heat soak from these cars (apparently some can't)- without being on a track- especially those living in hotter climates. If you can't then perhaps the RC2Cs are indeed the intake for you.
Highlighted the only factual thing you have said...some butt dynos say no, some butt dynos say yes. Which makes all butt dyno evidence inconclusive.
I personally own the R2c and have not experienced said "heat soak" which gave me a feeling of decreased HP ...
Commented on your comments above...
Last edited by G37sGraphite; 05-04-2016 at 02:52 PM.
First, some are using a Modshank intake mod. I have no idea how that affects the performance either way.
Second, the OP comparison does not include what the alternative SG3 would do under the same conditions. Assuming the IAT coming through the radiator port into the standard intake is the same temp the SG3 would be pulling in...
Then they raised the question of the big shiny metal tubes both aftermarket intakes have and question if the engine heat, conducted through the tubes and raised the IAT.... IMO probably not unless the pipes were so hot you couldn't touch them...the air passes through them pretty quickly and wouldn't likely be there long enough to raise much.
Then they talked abut IAT after a 10 min idle... For me that's immaterial, I'm not launching straight out of a Wendy's drive-through. I might spill my frosty! (okay frostys can't actually spill...but you know what I mean)
Finally the last post someone else had his SG3 observations...but that was on a completely different setup, in a different location, with different conditions. But either way, his results were inconsistent and at times similar to the R2c
So AFAIC I still do not see significant information to validate the heat-soak concern in this thread.
But there is a thread in this forum where the OP had numbers indication the temps weren't much different than LT intakes.
Again, IMO if the intake is drawing air through the stock port and has a shield with hood and baffle gaskets, it would have to draw air fast enough to overwhelm the stock baffle port to create a vacuum and suck in warm air. Otherwise the majority of the flow would come from the path of least resistance...the stock radiator baffle port.
Seems logical...unless there are numbers to show otherwise.
[/quote 370Z thread]
I have the gen 3 Stillen and have been monitoring the intake temps pretty closely. Really wished I had monitored the stock intake for comparison, but the first thing I noticed was the long thin shinny tubes that were bound to suck up heat. Wrapped them with two layers of insulated heat barrier and then started to monitor the intake temps.
Frankly they seem to be all over the board and I've not found a consistent pattern except when driven on the hwy for extend periods. Not counting stop n go traffic, they seem to be as low as 6 degrees above ambient when driven "briskly" on a back road, however sometimes they run 12-14 degrees hotter.
Think your ambient temps being lower plus I have a black car is another factor.
The sensor that monitors intake temps is located with the passenger side MAF and I just put an addition two layers of heat barrier over that sensor to see if it helps. Been trying to tune the car and noticed there is a direct correlation to water temps and probably also intake temps pulling out timing. I've seen a 3-4 degree difference in timing also 10 hp on the dyno just in temp differences.
I still believe the SG3 is likely the best engineered product on the market. They surely put a spit-ton of design and testing time into it.
But I haven't seen evidence the R2c is far behind in performance, I have however seen some to show it holds it's own.
Some folks claim the R2c has a risk of heat soak, and others claim the SG3 risks hydro lock.
I think both risks are minimal except under extreme conditions.[/QUOTE]
That's the thread. One correction though: 3 minute idle, not 10, and the modshack hack was at least consistent across IAT readings. But still.....
Sadly, I don't think you're going to find anything really conclusive. We're talking 15 hp here, and so much variability with mods, dynos, weather etc. nothing will ever be 100%.
Interestingly, the 370 guys look much more favorably on post maf tubes and drop ins than the G crowd.
So I need help finding an intake for 2011 g37 coupe, that is trusted and has best bang for my buck
The most bang for your buck, meaning the best ratio of HP:$1 seems to be drop in filters. They're an easy 0-2 HP (lol) and are super cheap. Next are the short rams, they seem to be marginal in power and mostly bought for the sound. Finally there are the CAI's, the Takeda intake seems to be the cheapest of the long tube options and they all do about the same. The super minimal difference in Takeda, Stillen AAM and Z1 long tubes are hardly worth talking about so it comes down to price and quality. You can be your own judge since everyone will say something totally different. Lastly, if you just want thee most power, your best bet is the AAM long tube intake. They are cheaper than Stillen after Vendor discounts and for a motor that hardly has any room for gains, every last HP matters. If you are planning to get a tune, they have an internal baffle that can be removed and opens up the power even more assuming you have all the breathing mods and willing to get a tune.
Long story short, get what's going to fit your build/driving style and enjoy the sound.
Originally Posted by KAHBOOM
Where is your heat soak test showing that there is no heat soak?? Searching.. nope nothing..(see how this works?)
Does not work that way big hoss,
The burden of proof is on you because you're disapproving a factual claim by the manufacturer. They produced claims through professional testing equipment and environment that the R2C creates HP that is similar to the CAI. You produce butt dyno that it does not and stated it as a fact... I did not disapprove any claim that is fact based and I actually stated:
Actually it does work that way, "big hoss". I was simply using the same logic that you were attempting to use albeit in sarcasm- not looking to "disapprove" (disprove) anything by the manufacturer. Do not manufacturers make claims often that are inconsistent with real-world experiences? I don't doubt that the manufacturer achieved the results that they claimed under the conditions in which they tested- no one is arguing that.
I would suggest that you go back and read my original post more accurately. If you need a breakdown line-by-line, let me know and I can do that for you.
I was and am simply sharing with you my experience and relating to you the experiences shared by others- none of which was presented as conclusive fact. You just misinterpreted that way which is your problem not mine.
I assume that you inadvertently misinterpreted the post as I find that it was otherwise pretty clear- that is- unless you are just carrying on just for the sake of attempting an argument (which again is just an assessment not conclusive fact- yet).
Originally Posted by G37sGraphite
Commented on your comments above...
When I had R2cs the metal on the tubes retained more heat than the plastic OEM tubes. (sorry no tests) When taking off from extended idle or stop and go traffic there was a clear reduction in initial power delivery. Others on the forum shared similar experiences.
So they have professional test equipment and you have hot fingers and a butt dyno... Are you suggesting that metal does not retain more heat than plastic? Are you suggesting that I could not determine if my car was experiencing a reduction of power?
You don't have take anyone's word for it. Your mind is already made up. So just buy them for yourself and enjoy. You can then compare and dyno then report back to the forums to counter my assessment.
I dont sell CAI or a competitor of RC2s so I have nothing to "prove" and am not incline to test or search for tests to provide you with the "proof" that you desire nor did I promise you such proof. I dont care if you decide to buy or not to buy them.
My mind is not made up regarding your un fact based claims. Heck you may be right I understand heat soak at the track unsure about in a daily driving situtation. However, the burden of proof is not on me I did not claim to know for sure anything. Otherwise I would not be asking for proof. ...but don't get butt hurt if I ask you to man up and prove what you are stating as "fact" if you cant then fine ....bye
Sorry if I cannot go back in time the year when I had my experiences just to "prove" to you that I had those experiences. If you cant "man-up" and accept the fact that someone has an experience regarding, what is apparently your favorite intake, that is not as great as you would like it to be without gettin g"butt-hurt" ... (see how this works again?)
Simply- there is a lot of valuable information on this forum from individuals who have experienced and reviewed many mods without "tests". You can chose to A) take the information with a grain of salt, B) ignore it completely c) Buy and test for yourself and offer the contribution that you so urgently are seeking as "proof".
Tons of great information on the forum already know that. I have worked on cars for a long time and tested tons of mods I installed myself so I know what may be B.S. and what may not be....so I am not "urgently seeking" proof. I am only wanting to see if what you are claiming as fact is fact...or just more butt dyno. No one claimed anything as fact except for the experiences. Try reading more carefully
For the benefit of others who want to hear the opinion of those of us who have installed short-ram intakes including R2Cs; Many who "drive daily" can easily discern heat soak from these cars (apparently some can't)- without being on a track- especially those living in hotter climates. If you can't then perhaps the RC2Cs are indeed the intake for you.
Highlighted the only factual thing you have said...some butt dynos say no, some butt dynos say yes. Which makes all butt dyno evidence inconclusive.
I personally own the R2c and have not experienced said "heat soak" which gave me a feeling of decreased HP ... Good .. now enjoy your mod
My responses in red
You have basically made a mountain out of a mole hill because of your lack of understanding.
Now that we have hopefully cleared up my intent of my post, maybe now you can get back on topic.
If you need additional suggestions for clarity on any of my posts, PM me.
I had the r2c a couple years ago. And while they sounded insane. The performance just wasn't there for me. I don't know if it's heat soak Or what. I know for a fact they made my car super sluggish from take off. Sometimes I would press the gas and it would hesitate then kick in. I out the oem intakes back in and that all went away.
More closely related to original question (i.e. intake bang for buck) and somewhat speaking to the R2C vs. Stillen vs. OEM debate what is the practical use of added horsepower in such a narrow power band that a DD may not even see routinely?
I found a couple dyno sheets: Stillen comparing to OEM and Stillen compared to R2C. (I feel like I am doing a geometry proof) but here goes:
Stillen gains HP in a narrow span 6500-7200rpm otherwise all things considered its power band is very similar to OEM.
R2C seems to have a broader band of gain over Stillen (5000-6400rpm) but ultimately end up nearly the same place.
So: Would then R2C be the "better" intake in the sense that your getting to use the hp gain for a longer stretch of time? (Leaving the heat soak debate out of this for now simply because we don't have that data comparing Ram vs. CAI vs. OEM under the same conditions)
I had the r2c a couple years ago. And while they sounded insane. The performance just wasn't there for me. I don't know if it's heat soak Or what. I know for a fact they made my car super sluggish from take off. Sometimes I would press the gas and it would hesitate then kick in. I out the oem intakes back in and that all went away.
That was exactly my experience as well. Apparently some have never experienced that with the R2Cs. Maybe they improved them over time.. maybe it was the way I had them installed...
That was exactly my experience as well. Apparently some have never experienced that with the R2Cs. Maybe they improved them over time.. maybe it was the way I had them installed...
That's funny you say, I searched this exact question a few minutes ago through google but no matter what platform there doesn't seem to be any revisions. Who knows?
Actually it does work that way, "big hoss". I was simply using the same logic that you were attempting to use albeit in sarcasm- not looking to "disapprove" (disprove) anything by the manufacturer. Do not manufacturers make claims often that are inconsistent with real-world experiences? I don't doubt that the manufacturer achieved the results that they claimed under the conditions in which they tested- no one is arguing that.
I would suggest that you go back and read my original post more accurately. If you need a breakdown line-by-line, let me know and I can do that for you.
I was and am simply sharing with you my experience and relating to you the experiences shared by others- none of which was presented as conclusive fact. You just misinterpreted that way which is your problem not mine.
I assume that you inadvertently misinterpreted the post as I find that it was otherwise pretty clear- that is- unless you are just carrying on just for the sake of attempting an argument (which again is just an assessment not conclusive fact- yet).
My responses in red
You have basically made a mountain out of a mole hill because of your lack of understanding.
Now that we have hopefully cleared up my intent of my post, maybe now you can get back on topic.
If you need additional suggestions for clarity on any of my posts, PM me.
This is a conversation regarding intakes and if in the discussion opinions arise that do not agree with your opinion...I fail to see how we are "off topic". We are providing a different opinion to the OP that will help him to make a decision. Dont need a break down of all that hot air you produced and I certainly do not need to read it again.......bottom line you defended and implied through your own experience that the R2C produces less HP with no fact to back that up ......okay got it.
Last edited by G37sGraphite; 05-04-2016 at 06:43 PM.
I prefer the OEM cold air intake. Perfectly design for the car. No need to jack up the car to change filters, no need to remove the bumpers, no worries about flood water getting sucked in. etc etc.
This is a conversation regarding intakes and if in the discussion opinions arise that do not agree with your opinion...I fail to see how we are "off topic". We are providing a different opinion to the OP that will help him to make a decision. Dont need a break down of all that hot air you produced and I certainly do not need to read it again.......
bottom line you defended and implied through your own experience that the R2C produces less HP with no fact to back that up ......okay got it.
You just cant leave it alone can you? And your entire argument is based upon stuff you keep making up in your own head that I have "said" that I did not say or that I have "implied by sharing an experience. wow!
We are actually not expressing a difference of opinion at all? You talking about something totally different that I what I am talking about. How can you disagree that I have experienced what I said I experienced? That's ridiculous to say the least.
You need to take a break from the internet. You are arguing that I have not presented "facts" but you are concluding that I attempted to present a fact based upon what you have openly acknowledged as"implied thought" (make up your mind which is it?)- which is based on perception in and of itself. Brilliant!
Bottom line is that I have presented my experience, you have presented your opinion(which is factual again?) Since you cant present an intelligent point without an implied insult (hot air etc) we are done discussing this. I am going to make myself a bit more clear- if you wish to continue a discussion with me regarding anything you and I have discussed in this thread, PM me. Otherwise it is off-topic. Carry on otherwise
That's the thread. One correction though: 3 minute idle, not 10, and the modshack hack was at least consistent across IAT readings. But still.....
Sadly, I don't think you're going to find anything really conclusive. We're talking 15 hp here, and so much variability with mods, dynos, weather etc. nothing will ever be 100%.
Interestingly, the 370 guys look much more favorably on post maf tubes and drop ins than the G crowd.
Ah, I misread the idle duration, thanks.
I'm not entirely sure what mods were done by the last poster with the SG3 He did say he insulated the tubing and the MAF sensor, he didn't say if he did the Modshack hack. (Whatever that is)
05-04-2016, 12:19 PM
