ARK exhaust question - What are it's technical merits?
#1
ARK exhaust question - What are it's technical merits?
What makes the ARK exhaust superior to others?
I'm looking for solid technical answers backed by evidence, discussion, and pictures, not flames.
If you only have a comment or opinion, DO NOT post it in this thread. I will ask a staff member to delete it and issue a warning.
ARK, I'm looking at you for answers.
I'm looking for solid technical answers backed by evidence, discussion, and pictures, not flames.
If you only have a comment or opinion, DO NOT post it in this thread. I will ask a staff member to delete it and issue a warning.
ARK, I'm looking at you for answers.
#3
We never said our products are better. We only stated the simple facts for all of our exhaust systems.
T304 Stainless Steel Contruction
TIG Welded
Mandrel Bends
Signature Mufflers and Resonators
Welded Tips ( Various options)
X Flow chamber
We were always proud of the sound that this exhaust produced and the R&D that went into this.
We are various Clips that utilizes the helmholtz design.
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SlHzTpXIitE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/l0bkccP2nVk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/m-jjcSaHaU8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wyN_9dWPgjU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/z2veAYX7fVg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YhDZhMmdBEg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/w83YNiJkAQc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rOtzP4mmufY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PY56ib82GO8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
T304 Stainless Steel Contruction
TIG Welded
Mandrel Bends
Signature Mufflers and Resonators
Welded Tips ( Various options)
X Flow chamber
We were always proud of the sound that this exhaust produced and the R&D that went into this.
We are various Clips that utilizes the helmholtz design.
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SlHzTpXIitE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/l0bkccP2nVk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/m-jjcSaHaU8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wyN_9dWPgjU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/z2veAYX7fVg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YhDZhMmdBEg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/w83YNiJkAQc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rOtzP4mmufY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PY56ib82GO8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Last edited by ARKperformance; 09-08-2011 at 05:54 PM.
#4
Do you have any baseline vs. after install dyno on a same vehicle? To my knowledge, I don't ever recall seeing one from you guys on both the coupe and the sedan versions. That would be a good start to this discussion.
#6
We have been offering customers to pay for a cut of their bill if they provide us a full baseline vs ARK exhaust dyno. There has been some that have been done by reputable tuners.
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Hm_cx6F9UO0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Hm_cx6F9UO0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
#7
Let me address this point by point.
So, how would this set your exhaust apart from any other exhaust? Why would you recommend your product over a competitors product? What is the difference between your product and an ebay special that uses the same materials and construction techniques?
Okay, so it's stainless steel, we get it. How is this superior to say, Titanium grade 5?
Better is a subjective word. If you want power, larger is better, period. This is an exhaust, not a header. There is no scavenging effect, and the exhaust gas is going to cool down no matter what. Additionally, cooler air is denser, but the total mass of air going out the exhaust remains the same regardless of temperature.
No accurate way to calculate optimal exhaust diameter? How about CFD software like Flow-3D or Solidworks? This software is made EXACTLY for what you claim is impossible. Bends and kinks are static variables. Temperature fluctuations shouldn't exist on a car once the system reach equilibrium, and it can be compensated for either way.
Your marketing material keeps calling for "lowest back pressure", but that would involve a larger diameter, contrary to what it previously states. You even imply an open exhaust is best.
Awesome. Your marketing materials literally copy paste the wikipedia article for Helmholtz Resonance, located at
Helmholtz resonance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[/QUOTE]
None of this addresses my initial question. What makes the ARK superior? Why should a prospective customer buy the ARK over other options? I'm not looking for copy pasted marketing materials.
We never said our products are better. We only stated the simple facts for all of our exhaust systems.
T304 Stainless Steel Contruction
TIG Welded
Mandrel Bends
Signature Mufflers and Resonators
Welded Tips ( Various options)
X Flow chamber
We were always proud of the sound that this exhaust produced and the R&D that went into this.
T304 Stainless Steel Contruction
TIG Welded
Mandrel Bends
Signature Mufflers and Resonators
Welded Tips ( Various options)
X Flow chamber
We were always proud of the sound that this exhaust produced and the R&D that went into this.
Okay, so it's stainless steel, we get it. How is this superior to say, Titanium grade 5?
Better is a subjective word. If you want power, larger is better, period. This is an exhaust, not a header. There is no scavenging effect, and the exhaust gas is going to cool down no matter what. Additionally, cooler air is denser, but the total mass of air going out the exhaust remains the same regardless of temperature.
No accurate way to calculate optimal exhaust diameter? How about CFD software like Flow-3D or Solidworks? This software is made EXACTLY for what you claim is impossible. Bends and kinks are static variables. Temperature fluctuations shouldn't exist on a car once the system reach equilibrium, and it can be compensated for either way.
Your marketing material keeps calling for "lowest back pressure", but that would involve a larger diameter, contrary to what it previously states. You even imply an open exhaust is best.
Awesome. Your marketing materials literally copy paste the wikipedia article for Helmholtz Resonance, located at
Helmholtz resonance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[/QUOTE]
None of this addresses my initial question. What makes the ARK superior? Why should a prospective customer buy the ARK over other options? I'm not looking for copy pasted marketing materials.
Last edited by Mike; 09-08-2011 at 06:46 PM.
Trending Topics
#8
We have been offering customers to pay for a cut of their bill if they provide us a full baseline vs ARK exhaust dyno. There has been some that have been done by reputable tuners.
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Hm_cx6F9UO0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Hm_cx6F9UO0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
-Headers
-HFCs
Additionally, none of the following is addressed (however minimal):
- Corrected numbers?
- Is this averaged runs or highest vs lowest?
- Tires presssures the same?
- Same tires?
- Fluids?
- Tune?
- Same dyno?
#9
We have been offering customers to pay for a cut of their bill if they provide us a full baseline vs ARK exhaust dyno. There has been some that have been done by reputable tuners.
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Hm_cx6F9UO0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Hm_cx6F9UO0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Last edited by J2S2M; 09-08-2011 at 06:58 PM. Reason: EDIT: Mike you beat me to it
#10
The word better is subjective. It seems like OP has his heart set on trying to nit pick at anything and everything. We used references from Wiki because it was relevant. Is that an wrong?
As for this statement..
Okay, so it's stainless steel, we get it. How is this superior to say, Titanium grade 5?
Go get a titanium grade 5 exhaust system. The raw material does a better job in retaining heat and it must lighter and durable than any SS. I thought you were trying to be constructive with this thread
Better is a subjective word. If you want power, larger is better, period. This is an exhaust, not a header. There is no scavenging effect, and the exhaust gas is going to cool down no matter what. Additionally, cooler air is denser, but the total mass of air going out the exhaust remains the same regardless of temperature.
Larger is not better. Period. Please back up your statement and try not to confuse the people that larger piping will always produce more power. I have mine ready.
No accurate way to calculate optimal exhaust diameter? How about CFD software like Flow-3D or Solidworks? This software is made EXACTLY for what you claim is impossible. Bends and kinks are static variables. Temperature fluctuations shouldn't exist on a car once the system reach equilibrium, and it can be compensated for either way.
Even today, there is no accurate way of calculating exactly which piping size nets the most power unless you have access to Infiniti or any OEM exhaust department(Im simply pointing this out because nothing is impossible, as long as you have the resources to do it((A LOT OF MONEY)). For all aftermarket exhaust manufacturers .It comes down to educated trial and error. There is simply way too many variables to consider when deciding on piping diameter for specific engines. Also in reference to what you said above regarding piping size, why don't we all go 4" piping? It would produce the most power right?
Your marketing material keeps calling for "lowest back pressure", but that would involve a larger diameter, contrary to what it previously states. You even imply an open exhaust is best.
When making an exhaust, we do not try to eliminate backpressure. We want to come up with the best piping size so that gases stay hot throughout the entire exhaust system. Hot gases are lighter therefore it travels faster than cold denser air. Backpressure is needed in all exhaust systems to perform well in any condition.
As for this statement..
Okay, so it's stainless steel, we get it. How is this superior to say, Titanium grade 5?
Go get a titanium grade 5 exhaust system. The raw material does a better job in retaining heat and it must lighter and durable than any SS. I thought you were trying to be constructive with this thread
Better is a subjective word. If you want power, larger is better, period. This is an exhaust, not a header. There is no scavenging effect, and the exhaust gas is going to cool down no matter what. Additionally, cooler air is denser, but the total mass of air going out the exhaust remains the same regardless of temperature.
Larger is not better. Period. Please back up your statement and try not to confuse the people that larger piping will always produce more power. I have mine ready.
No accurate way to calculate optimal exhaust diameter? How about CFD software like Flow-3D or Solidworks? This software is made EXACTLY for what you claim is impossible. Bends and kinks are static variables. Temperature fluctuations shouldn't exist on a car once the system reach equilibrium, and it can be compensated for either way.
Even today, there is no accurate way of calculating exactly which piping size nets the most power unless you have access to Infiniti or any OEM exhaust department(Im simply pointing this out because nothing is impossible, as long as you have the resources to do it((A LOT OF MONEY)). For all aftermarket exhaust manufacturers .It comes down to educated trial and error. There is simply way too many variables to consider when deciding on piping diameter for specific engines. Also in reference to what you said above regarding piping size, why don't we all go 4" piping? It would produce the most power right?
Your marketing material keeps calling for "lowest back pressure", but that would involve a larger diameter, contrary to what it previously states. You even imply an open exhaust is best.
When making an exhaust, we do not try to eliminate backpressure. We want to come up with the best piping size so that gases stay hot throughout the entire exhaust system. Hot gases are lighter therefore it travels faster than cold denser air. Backpressure is needed in all exhaust systems to perform well in any condition.
#12
The word better is subjective. It seems like OP has his heart set on trying to nit pick at anything and everything. We used references from Wiki because it was relevant. Is that an wrong?
As for this statement..
Okay, so it's stainless steel, we get it. How is this superior to say, Titanium grade 5?
Go get a titanium grade 5 exhaust system. The raw material does a better job in retaining heat and it must lighter and durable than any SS. I thought you were trying to be constructive with this thread
As for this statement..
Okay, so it's stainless steel, we get it. How is this superior to say, Titanium grade 5?
Go get a titanium grade 5 exhaust system. The raw material does a better job in retaining heat and it must lighter and durable than any SS. I thought you were trying to be constructive with this thread
You need to get your facts straight. Titanium is heavier than steel for a given volume of metal. Ti is, however, stronger, so a thinner material can be used, allowing for the net weight of a system to be lighter. Were the same thickness of material used, Ti would be heavier.
In terms of thermal conductivity, they are roughly similar, dependent on the grade of materiel used.
Better is a subjective word. If you want power, larger is better, period. This is an exhaust, not a header. There is no scavenging effect, and the exhaust gas is going to cool down no matter what. Additionally, cooler air is denser, but the total mass of air going out the exhaust remains the same regardless of temperature.
Titanium is NOT more duable than SS. Titanium hates vibration and heat cycles. It's also brittle.
Larger is not better. Period. Please back up your statement and try not to confuse the people that larger piping will always produce more power. I have mine ready.
Titanium is NOT more duable than SS. Titanium hates vibration and heat cycles. It's also brittle.
Larger is not better. Period. Please back up your statement and try not to confuse the people that larger piping will always produce more power. I have mine ready.
As long as the exhaust is the restriction in the system, larger is better.
No accurate way to calculate optimal exhaust diameter? How about CFD software like Flow-3D or Solidworks? This software is made EXACTLY for what you claim is impossible. Bends and kinks are static variables. Temperature fluctuations shouldn't exist on a car once the system reach equilibrium, and it can be compensated for either way.
Even today, there is no accurate way of calculating exactly which piping size nets the most power unless you have access to Infiniti or any OEM exhaust department(Im simply pointing this out because nothing is impossible, as long as you have the resources to do it((A LOT OF MONEY)). For all aftermarket exhaust manufacturers .It comes down to educated trial and error. There is simply way too many variables to consider when deciding on piping diameter for specific engines. Also in reference to what you said above regarding piping size, why don't we all go 4" piping? It would produce the most power right?
If money is that tight, try this. It's free.
Wind-US: Free CFD Analysis Software from the NPARC Alliance
We don't all go 4" piping because it would be insanely loud, and the diminishing returns on power gain for material cost increase is not worth it for most applications.
Your marketing material keeps calling for "lowest back pressure", but that would involve a larger diameter, contrary to what it previously states. You even imply an open exhaust is best.[/B]
When making an exhaust, we do not try to eliminate backpressure. We want to come up with the best piping size so that gases stay hot throughout the entire exhaust system. Hot gases are lighter therefore it travels faster than cold denser air. Backpressure is needed in all exhaust systems to perform well in any condition.
When making an exhaust, we do not try to eliminate backpressure. We want to come up with the best piping size so that gases stay hot throughout the entire exhaust system. Hot gases are lighter therefore it travels faster than cold denser air. Backpressure is needed in all exhaust systems to perform well in any condition.
Backpressure is not necessary to perform well in any condition. I will bet you money that any consumer car engine in production will have higher output with a open header than with an exhaust that restricts its flow. The scavenging effect is used to decrease resistance to flow. Diameter is increased to promote flow.
How about it? We put this to the test, and loser pays for the cost of testing?
Last edited by Mike; 09-08-2011 at 07:34 PM.
#13
I have nothing more to add to this. Do your test, you will lose low end torque but probably yield gains at the top end.
Thank you for your interest in our products. We hope that one day you will be able to appreciate the option that we have provided you for your vehicle. If you are not satisfied with our products please email me directly at alex@arkperformanceusa.com or call me directly if you have any questions. 909.391.1275.
Thank you for your interest in our products. We hope that one day you will be able to appreciate the option that we have provided you for your vehicle. If you are not satisfied with our products please email me directly at alex@arkperformanceusa.com or call me directly if you have any questions. 909.391.1275.
#15
If a company is going to make strong claims, then yes, I will ask them the same questions. Why should I buy THEIR product instead of someone else's.
A mediocre rep will bash others.
A highly educated and trained rep will be able to give you pros and cons of your available options.