MSCA

iTrader: (3)

I don't know....and either do you. But I do know this--Nissan recommends this oil because of the VVEL system, which is new technology that debuted on the G37 engine. I think I'll put my trust in the guys who designed the engine before I'll listen to some random guy on the Internet with a UOA printout in his hand.

BTW, no kidding that their ester oil isn't 100% ester. No oil on the market is 100% pure anything.

MSCA

iTrader: (3)

Recommendations are just that--recommendations. Nobody says that you or anyone else has to follow them. But at the end of the day, these recommendations (even the ones you consider extreme) are designed to reduce or limit warranty claims.

Lets use some logic for a moment, shall we? Engine oil is the most critical component of your engine...it's basically the life blood of your engine. Knowing that, why do you think Nissan would recommend a specific blend of oil that was purposely developed for their new VVEL engine? They obviously have a vested interest in ensuring that this new engine not only operates correctly, but also survives the warranty period with a minimum of warranty claims.

So you can keep waiving your UOA printouts in the air and claiming that it's all a big marketing hype conspiracy if you want. And I'll stick with the ester oil that Nissan recommends because the VVEL system makes these engines different than the engine in any of my other cars. And if I have a warranty claim, I'll be sure to let you know

KLB

They recommend that oil to specifically eliminate the ticking noise that people were complaining about. It had nothing to do with reduce or limiting warranty claims. If their engine could not survive the warranty period without this oil they would have serious issues. Plus let's not forget they have a vested interest in making money, and I am sure that their oil makes them a bunch when they manage to sell it.

My manual does not even have the line about the recommendation, as I have one of the earlier 2009 production runs. I will stick to the Pennzoil Ultra I am using. I have no ticking noise and it has shown to hold up well in my engine with my driving style.

KLB

You are correct.

MSCA

iTrader: (3)

Nissan's ester oil supposedly has a better ability to cling to the VVEL system components than other oils. THAT is the main reason it was developed specifically for this engine. The ticking noise you mentioned is a result of the oil drainback after shutdown....and of course the longer between starts, the less oil that will be present for those vital first few seconds after start-up.

Think about it--ticking due to a lack of lubrication is NEVER a good thing, even if just for a few seconds. Over time, that can do nothing but cause wear/damage. For people like me who don't drive their G every single day, it makes sense to keep the top of the engine and the VVEL system as protected as possible. If that means paying for the ester oil, I'll do it.

As for your theory about Nissan making money selling their oil....did you ever stop to think that if it were all about profits, they would simply recommend their ester oil for every car they sell? But since they don't do that, it makes sense that they feel there is a need for ester oil in the VQ engine with VVEL.

philter25

iTrader: (4)

Your original statement is incorrect. According to their specs, any API rated oil which meets their specs Nissan recommends. Which includes synthetics, which some are made from ester basestocks. You SHOULD be using any oil which meets Nissans specs, not ONLY ester oil.

And their "ester oil" doesnt even include ester basestocks. Its a semi syn blend with ester additive. And go ahead and completely ignore the facts I posted about oil companies being able to falsely market their oils. Do you follow premium maintenance also? Because apparently thats what your Nissan engineers recommend.

And I echo what KLB says so I wont bother repeating the same info to the other posts. And Nissan would see a huge backlash from people if they recommended a 10 dollar a bottle oil for EVERY car they use.

For cars, its all marketing. Take the Altima competitors. For people shopping for budget cars, maintenance costs are huge. What happens when Motortrend or Car and Driver gets wind that Nissan only specs their 10 buck a quart oil which breaks down at 4k miles for their cars?

Personally, I would never ever buy a car which only accepted a high end boutique oil conveniently sold by the same company which was scientifically proven to break down at 4k miles. That alone would have steered me towards the 335i.

Prove me wrong then. Subscribe to a UOA database or read the UOA thread or go to Bitog and prove that IM the only random guy on the internet with a UOA printout in his hand.

IIRC, I have at least 6 independent UOAs saved on my other computer showing the same exact results. So prove me wrong.

Its not even made from ester basestocks. My point was its completely false advertisement. My point wasnt that its 100% ester, it was that its not even made from actual ester basestocks. And oils are a blend of many different things. Probably about 85% oil and 15% additive by volume. And I never said they were. Any person could read a UOA and see the many different detergents and anti wear agents in a particular oil. You mistakenly thought I was implying that an oil needed to be 100% one item. I was talking about the basestock.

philter25

iTrader: (4)

You are absolutely correct.

MSCA

iTrader: (3)

You should read up on this instead of focusing on a single page in the owner's manual. There are legal reasons why that page was written as such. Nissan can only recommend ester oil, they can't legally require it.

Typically, maintenance schedules have at least two different categories: Severe Service and Normal Service.

Okay, so they choose to recommend ester oil for the G37 engine, but not the other engines in their other cars? LOL, did you ever stop to think that's not from fear of a huge backlash, but in reality because the G37 engine has VVEL? Seriously you don't understand that?

The same thing that happens when they get wind of that for the G37. Nothing.

Prove you wrong on what? That you should be using the ester oil that Nissan recommends? Sorry, but that's a fight you need to have with Nissan's engineers. I'm not the one saying that I know better than them...that's you, remember?

I know exactly what you were saying.... and it really doesn't matter. I'm not going to debate what Nissan's ester oil is or isn't. Again, I don't know and either do you. But I do know that the people who made the car say that it's the best oil to use for this particular engine. I also know that there are a lot of people who say they experienced noise from the VVEL system when they stopped using it or when they did their first oil change and drained their factory fill and replaced it with another oil. So again, you are obviously free to do whatever you want with your car. Just don't try to convince me that I should not be using ester oil when Nissan says I should.

KLB

They could require it, they would just have to pay for it. We all know that is not going to happen.

MSCA

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant. If they require a specific oil that only they sell, they are legally required to provide it for free. Otherwise, that would be a violation of the Robinson-Patman Act.

novaleadfoot

iTrader: (1)

Magnuson-Moss...tie-in sales provisions

MSCA

iTrader: (3)

That's more for aftermarket parts. Look up Robinson-Patman Act. If Nissan required the use of a special oil that only they sold, it would have to be given to us free, as per the Robinson-Patman Act.

novaleadfoot

iTrader: (1)

honestly not trying to be a smarta$$ but can you show me where it says that?

from what I know, Robinson-Patman Act: It shall be unlawful for any person engaged in commerce, in the course of such commerce, either directly or indirectly, to discriminate in price between different purchasers of commodities of like grade and quality, . . . and where the effect of such discrimination may be substantially to lessen competition or tend to create a monopoly in any line of commerce, or to injure, destroy, or prevent competition with any person who either grants or knowingly receives the benefit of such discrimination, or with customers of either of them . . .

whereas the Magnuson Moss Act says: "No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name...."

JonfromCB

Run whatever you like. If you want to keep it under warranty make sure it's API "SM"
and the correct weight. If you want your VQ37 to last at least until the warranty
expires change your oil at least every 7500 miles and use a good synthetic. If you
love your VQ37 and want it to run well beyond warranty and not slowly cook
that synthetic crap to the insides of your engine, use a true ester base stock
oil and just laugh at the guys using cheaper stuff or arguing that it's not required.
If you want to see what non-ester oil will do to a VQ engine over time, just look
at the pictures on BITOG.

SM_Shadowman

I'm not sure why you think you need to insult those of us who use a different oil. We don't think we are smarter than the engineers. Quite frankly, none of us know for certain what the engineers think. All we know is the manual recommend Nissan's own brand of expensive oil, but only require an API-certified 5w30 oil.

We've done plenty of reading and research and have seen more than a few UOAs that caused us to choose something else, that is all. There was also a TSB for an ECU flash for the 2008 year that fixed the lifter tick issue, and the subsequent engines produced already had that fix as well. Many of us, myself included have never experienced the vvel tick; I've run both the Nissan Ester and now use a synthetic oil.

One other thing -- while you are accusing us of thinking we are smarter than the engineers who designed the engine, you should know that Infiniti claims the vvel lifter tick is completely harmless while you are asserting that it is causing damage.