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I've been lowered on Swift springs since Nov. 2020. Last month I was getting an alignment and my front tires were worn on the inside. Got new tires, and now a month later they are worn on the inside as well.
Suspension shop says the camber is way off (-1.6) on the front, which is causing the uneven tire wear, and I need to get adjustable upper control arms to fix the issue and get the camber in spec. This all makes sense, but I am not sure why this hadn't happened prior to now as I have been running the springs for almost 2 years. I've also never heard of anyone having to run adjustable from upper control arms with Swift springs. I'm wondering if there might be another reason that is causing this?
When you installed the new tires did you go and get an alignment? It could be the cause of why your new tires are already worn on the inside. Probably have to much toe in.
Also, I have a G37xS with swift springs and KYB shocks. I did install SPC rear camber arms initially, but noticed how much camber the fronts had. I had about -2.1. Got the front SPC camber arms and it has been smooth sailing from here. No unusual wear, and running -1 camber on all 4 corners. Been running this set up for almost 3 years now.
Before we start talking about hundreds of dollars in camber arms
How many miles are we talking before getting "uneven wear"?
What is your toe setting look like?
When was the last time you replaced your inner and outer tie rods?
My front tires lasted ~20K miles. I replaced them last month, and now those replacements are looking extremely worn on the inside as well (car has been driven about 1100 miles since they were installed).
When I got the alignment after getting the new tires, my toe was reading out at 0.8. Yesterday, it was put on the alignment lift and the toe read as follows: Left: -0.30; Right: 0.40; Total: 0.10.
Camber was -1.6 on the left and -2.0 on the right. These are all numbers for the front btw.
I have not replaced my inner/outer tie rods but upon some initial research, I have been getting the symptoms of bad tie rods. In addition to the things I've mentioned here with the alignment being out of wack, I have heard that clunking sound when turning at very low speeds.
My front tires lasted ~20K miles. I replaced them last month, and now those replacements are looking extremely worn on the inside as well (car has been driven about 1100 miles since they were installed).
When I got the alignment after getting the new tires, my toe was reading out at 0.8. Yesterday, it was put on the alignment lift and the toe read as follows: Left: -0.30; Right: 0.40; Total: 0.10.
Camber was -1.6 on the left and -2.0 on the right. These are all numbers for the front btw.
I have not replaced my inner/outer tie rods but upon some initial research, I have been getting the symptoms of bad tie rods. In addition to the things I've mentioned here with the alignment being out of wack, I have heard that clunking sound when turning at very low speeds.
Jack up the car and grab the wheels on the outside left and right and simulate a steering motion, if you have a lot of play or an audible clunking sound, take off the wheel and look at the outer tie rod where it connects to the spindle and see if there's play there.
You can also look for play where the tie rod goes to the steering rack.
There should be a little movement but for anything that is noticeably loud or seems like way more slop or play than you want in your steering arms, you may want to replace the tie rod assembly inner and outer.
Depending on the treadwear, 20k life for tires on a modified car is pretty good.
I was on swift springs and eventually had to get upper front adjustable control arms because of the negative camber being more than 2.5 degrees off. I was eating tires every 8 months. Now that I have the adjustable UCA I've been good.
Before we start talking about hundreds of dollars in camber arms
How many miles are we talking before getting "uneven wear"?
What is your toe setting look like?
When was the last time you replaced your inner and outer tie rods?
When you lower your car using springs, coil over kit, etc. alone, you are substantially changing your suspension geometry. In order to correct it for camber - if you don't want to run 1.5 degrees or more of negative camber - you MUST go for a different upper control arm or other measures. It is simple physics. If you are on a street car and like the camber, and want to equalize tire wear, your other measure to extend tire life is to dismount the tires and remount them reversed, so your car then chews on the outer shoulder too. Note: This is a not a good solution if your tires have directional (for water evacuation), or asymmetric (beefy outer shoulder tread for cornering) tread patterns.
When you lower your car using springs, coil over kit, etc. alone, you are substantially changing your suspension geometry. In order to correct it for camber - if you don't want to run 1.5 degrees or more of negative camber - you MUST go for a different upper control arm or other measures. It is simple physics. If you are on a street car and like the camber, and want to equalize tire wear, your other measure to extend tire life is to dismount the tires and remount them reversed, so your car then chews on the outer shoulder too. Note: This is a not a good solution if your tires have directional (for water evacuation), or asymmetric (beefy outer shoulder tread for cornering) tread patterns.
Just get the control arms.
Right, that makes sense to me as well. I am moreso confused as to why the problem is arising now, rather than in the first year and a half of getting the springs/lowering kit. The timing is the only thing that makes me a bit suspicious that something else may be going on (bad tie rods) for example. I just want to be sure that I address the root of the problem and get it right.
Right, that makes sense to me as well. I am moreso confused as to why the problem is arising now, rather than in the first year and a half of getting the springs/lowering kit. The timing is the only thing that makes me a bit suspicious that something else may be going on (bad tie rods) for example. I just want to be sure that I address the root of the problem and get it right.
So if you have loose tie rod ends you would expect your tow to change, right? If you were toeing out or in you should see cupping on one side of the tread or the other, depending on the direction. If you are seeing more wear on the inside shoulder but no cupping, it isn't a control arm.
So from the thread, you are at -1.6 degrees of camber. Most cars are ~ -.5 or so, so they are neutral with people in the car. When I was driving my G35, I had a lowering kit which dropped it ~1.25 inches that left me with about -1.6 to 1.7 degrees of camber. Does that wear the inside of the tires? Of course! Was it significant? ... Not so much. But if you dropped your car an inch or more without any compensating change in control arms, etc. you are increasing inner tire wear, no way about it. You have been doing it ever since you lowered it, you just didn't realize it. It's a subtle wear.
Either accept more tire wear and dismount/remount and rotate as you can, or buy the kits to restore a stock.
So if you have loose tie rod ends you would expect your tow to change, right? If you were toeing out or in you should see cupping on one side of the tread or the other, depending on the direction. If you are seeing more wear on the inside shoulder but no cupping, it isn't a control arm.
So from the thread, you are at -1.6 degrees of camber. Most cars are ~ -.5 or so, so they are neutral with people in the car. When I was driving my G35, I had a lowering kit which dropped it ~1.25 inches that left me with about -1.6 to 1.7 degrees of camber. Does that wear the inside of the tires? Of course! Was it significant? ... Not so much. But if you dropped your car an inch or more without any compensating change in control arms, etc. you are increasing inner tire wear, no way about it. You have been doing it ever since you lowered it, you just didn't realize it. It's a subtle wear.
Either accept more tire wear and dismount/remount and rotate as you can, or buy the kits to restore a stock.
Hi Rick, thanks for the reply. The reason I am perplexed is that the new tires that I put in the front a month ago are already pretty worn on the inside. The rate of the tires going bad is what made me suspect that camber wasn't the main culprit, rather the toe. But after putting in on the alignment it showed that my toe is -0.30 degrees (Left) and 0.40 degrees (Right), for a total toe of 0.10 degrees. My concern is that even after I install the adjustable upper control arms and get new tires, the same thing will happen. I'm probably going to go ahead and purchase the arms today as I've gotten it looked at and everything else in the suspension looks fine (bushing, ball joints, tie rods, etc.).
Edit: I am not seeing any cupping, just accelerated wear on the inside shoulder (same amount on both tires). Also, the Swift springs lowered my car 1.2 inches in the front and 0.8 inches in the rear.
But after putting in on the alignment it showed that my toe is -0.30 degrees (Left) and 0.40 degrees (Right), for a total toe of 0.10 degrees. My concern is that even after I install the adjustable upper control arms and get new tires, the same thing will happen. I'm probably going to go ahead and purchase the arms today as I've gotten it looked at and everything else in the suspension looks fine (bushing, ball joints, tie rods, etc.).
Edit: I am not seeing any cupping, just accelerated wear on the inside shoulder (same amount on both tires). Also, the Swift springs lowered my car 1.2 inches in the front and 0.8 inches in the rear.
These are the specs for my 2009 sedan:
According to this, you should be about .5mm toed in on both sides, with a max of 1mm on each side (1mm and 2mm in total) or .04 degrees on each side, or under < .1 degrees in total. Your measurements confuse me, it seems like you are saying your left tire is toed in .3 degrees and your right is toed in .4 degrees? That is a LOT of toe-in and way more than recommended, unless I am misunderstanding.
Basically, camber < +- 1 degree is good for street, caster of a couple degrees is good, and toe-in should be basically just under zero, i.e. slightly toed-in so the steering self-centers a bit.
These are the specs for my 2009 sedan:
According to this, you should be about .5mm toed in on both sides, with a max of 1mm on each side (1mm and 2mm in total) or .04 degrees on each side, or under < .1 degrees in total. Your measurements confuse me, it seems like you are saying your left tire is toed in .3 degrees and your right is toed in .4 degrees? That is a LOT of toe-in and way more than recommended, unless I am misunderstanding.
Basically, camber < +- 1 degree is good for street, caster of a couple degrees is good, and toe-in should be basically just under zero, i.e. slightly toed-in so the steering self-centers a bit.
Hopefully that helps!
Rick
shoot. You’re right I don’t know why/how I overlooked that. My left and right toe are way out of spec. But the total toe is in spec. Do the individual toe measurements matter if the total is in spec? Im assuming so but am not sure. Im attaching a pic of the measurements below.
08-26-2022, 12:03 AM
Lowered Front Camber Issue, Help!
