future62

Well, all MTs are not created equal. I don't think anyone mourned the death of the MT Camry LE I have never driven a Nissan M/T I'd call "good" either, including my old 350Z.

Lego_Maniac

iTrader: (3)

True, but I'd rather have options. And not surprisingly, I'm of the mindset that a crappy manual is better than an automatic.

canucklehead

iTrader: (9)

^ thanks for the mini-review. i've been waiting to see more of the G70 locally in Vancity. the 6MT sport model doesn't arrive for a few more months, but i'd like to take a closer look at any trim to get a better feel. i did see it at the auto show in march, but it's tough to really take stock of it there.

it looks great in person. the interior is fantastic, easily beat any of the not-loaded Audis/BMWs at the auto show. and ventilated seats! that's a winner for me. big problem i saw was rear foot room. other rear dimensions were on par with competition, just not the foot room. not a big issue for me, but still...

the price is right. $42k to start up to $57k for top trim, including freight/PDI and 5 years maintenance. the 6MT trim is $45.5k. frustrating is how certain features/options are not available in the 6MT trim. i'm not a fan of the 'genesis at home' features myself (i'm more hands on when it comes to my cars) but it is a nice perk that many people will exploit.

i am used to buying ~1-2 year used vehicles, or at least having some negotiating leverage. genesis' retail model is a new one for me - truly no haggle from their "agents" - they do not have salespeople - that represent the country-wide distributor.

i agree that the brand (official genesis offshoot from hyundai) and model are new, and a fear is a huge hit to depreciation. i tend to keep my cars for a long time so resale isn't a top priority, but i still use it as a metric for how 'smart' the purchase was. what if genesis folds after a few years as a failed experiment? i guess lexus had the same fears when they started out though. but if genesis doesn't grow roots in the US market i expect they'll pull the plug for Canada. US is having real issues with the genesis dealer network.

Baadnewsburr

iTrader: (3)

this is the same boat I'm usually in I'm banking on used examples being available at Hyundai/other dealer lots for direct purchase as used vehicles...one thing that i forgot to mention thats really cool (although I didn't get to try it), is the genesis App that you get for 5 years (and have to pay for after that), that allows you to remote start the car and set climate controls...the heated steering wheel and heated seats (front and back are nice touches too as are the front cooled seats...

I also prefer to take care of the car myself, but warranty is warranty and is free... I do hope that aftermarket support for it is as good as it is for the G/Q's cause the exhaust was super quiet, with the windows up at WOT I could barely hear the engine running..it really was a surprisingly refined ride...I just cant get over how much better it was than the Q50 which makes me kinda sad as I'm such an infiniti/nissan fanboy because of the G

future62

Someone on another board I'm on called the G "the last great Japanese sedan". I'm somewhat inclined to agree. Its only bugaboo is the dismal gas mileage.

Lego_Maniac

iTrader: (3)

Japanese Muscle Car would be a more accurate description IMO

Rochester

iTrader: (9)

There it is. I've been using that exact phrase for years now.

Just a few bolt-on mods to the 6MT G37, and you have all the qualities of a muscle car: a heavy, naturally aspirated, high horsepower, rear wheel drive car with limited slip and a manual transmission... but with balance and refinement, instead of tail-happy and crude.

Japanese Muscle Car.

Lego_Maniac

iTrader: (3)

Car and Driver used that phrase to describe it way back in a review/comparison test.

I think we agree the G37S qualifies

Bionicman

iTrader: (1)

Haha, it's certainly possible. I bought a 2008 Subaru Legacy GT Limited in the spring of 2008 for $25,500 including the factory SPT intake and exhaust, and sold it in September of 2010 for $22,800. While not exactly making money, the car was practically free with a cost of ownership of only $96/month, and it was all thanks to the hideously ugly grandpa-mobile that was the 2010 Legacy. The new Legacy was so damn ugly and the new equal-length headers sounded so bad that the prices of pristine low-mileage 4th gen Legacy's exploded. So few people could get past the horrific styling and Civic exhaust note that Subaru had to axe the GT model altogether after just a couple years, once again spiking the prices of the 4th gen.



This is an absolutely spot-on assessment. The Subaru Performance Tuning exhaust was unquestionably the best exhaust made for the WRX / Legacy GT. It had a nice low mature rumble, fit perfectly, and had no drone. The STI offers a lot of performance for the money and aftermarket support is biblical, but personally, I've moved beyond my boy-racer stage. I was also incredibly disappointed with the build quality of my LGT, which would turn me off from another Subaru purchase. Here are a few of the warranty issues I ran into that weren't caused by aftermarket modifications:

- Alignment came out in the first 2 weeks on the road
- Steering wheel creaked
- Sport# button only worked occasionally
- Moonroof failed (stuck open, would not shut do to broken plastic piece inside)
- ENTIRE TPMS system was replaced, all sensors x2, wiring, and module, and it still had problems.
- Fuel gauge failed and had to be replaced
- Ambient temperature gauge was off by over 5 degrees
- Cracked driver seat frame replaced x2 (I’m a huge guy at 180lbs)
- The wheels corroded around the center cap within 5k miles
- Multiple rattles inside within 2k miles
- Brake rotors required resurfacing after only 9K miles
- PCV Valve replaced at 5,000 miles
- Arm rest extension rattled and was replaced
- Oil pan leaked
- Belts needed replacing at 18k miles
- Weather stripping needed replaced at 18k miles
- Acceleration stutter between 3000 and 4000 rpm before being tuned
- Transmission slipped between shifts and occasionally banged into 3rd and 4th gear before being tuned

4DRZ

iTrader: (7)

I agree. However, it is pretty easy to make it a really good M/T. For me it just took a B&M shift kit and a Raceseng shift ****. Specifically in our cars I think it also needs a transmission mount and an RJM clutch pedal assembly because Infiniti clearly tried to isolate too much of the feedback and turned it into mush.

I read that Hyundai opened the 1st stand alone genesis dealer in S. Korea recently. In the U.S. they are just sold out of Hyundai dealerships by regular Hyundai salespeople who discount them heavily. Is that different in Canada? The Genesis name has been around for quite a while here, started as the coupe and was also referred to as Equus. Maybe it is new in Canada. The do depreciate heavily, unfortunately just like our G37's.

It's missing one key ingredient- a big V8. The M56 with the Titan V8 is probably a better representation of a Japanese muscle car since it is heavier, only came in A/T like a lot of American muscle cars, and handles just about as bad.

I owned a '98 2.5 RS, '02 WRX, and '09 STI. They were all great cars for their time and they all improved. However, compared to the Infiniti, they were all light years behind in terms of build quality, fit & finish, and technology. The current STI is a lot better on the inside and is finally available with a real set of brakes, a decent stereo, and Recaro seats. Unfortunately, it is butt scar ugly and still uses the same ancient engine, transmission, and AWD system from the 2004 model?!? I have high hopes that the next gen STI will address these issues and if they make a legit car I will seriously consider it. I just hope they don't drop the ball with the next generation like they did the current one.

Lego_Maniac

iTrader: (3)

I had a 5th gen

I think the discontinuation of the GT had more to do with it being paired exclusively with a 6MT

Sales were up 25% 2009-2010, so somebody was buying it.

Subaru Legacy US car sales figures

If anything Subaru gave a big middle finger to enthusiasts and instead focused on mainstream sedan buyers. Which should undoubtedly concern anyone with high hopes for the next gen WRX/STI.

On the plus side, the ELH and bottom mount turbo responded well to tuning. Stage 1 cars were hitting low 13s and stage 2 cars were in the 12s. Aftermarket support sucked though.



Build quality was one of the only things actually improved 4th-5th gen in the Legacy. To counter your experience, I had my 2010 for 2 years and 25K and never took it back to the dealer. No problems, no squeaks, rattles, etc.

The 2015, and 2018 STI refresh have continued to improve the interior quality. I can certainly understand the looks being polarizing, but I doubt the next gen is going to change in that regard. I just hate the ridiculous spoiler.

Bionicman

iTrader: (1)

True, grandmas and grandpas looking for a cheap AWD sedan that was roomy inside purchased the 2.5i in droves. I don't say that to be a smart a$$, it's simply what I was told by two friends that were Subaru salesmen at separate dealerships at that time. Even around town, it's pretty rare that I see somebody under 60 behind the wheel of a 5th gen.



Now you hit the nail on the head. A couple companies like Cobb rushed to the table with aftermarket tuning for the 5th gen, but quickly stopped investing in it once they saw the GT sales numbers and lack of interest. Most other aftermarket companies saw the death of the GT on the horizon with the rollout of the 5th gen and never even dipped their toe in the water. I'll always find it rather depressing what became of the LGT.

future62

2009 was a weird year. Sales were way down because of the recession so they had nowhere to go but up.

It is a bummer Subaru killed the LGT. I feel like they had the opportunity to occupy the space Mazda wants to claim. Mainstream, but slightly upscale and enthusiast focused. Would be awesome if they made RWD versions of their AWD cars. As I understand it the BRZ is basically a RWD Impreza. I would love a RWD Legacy with a ~300HP H6.

Lego_Maniac

iTrader: (3)

It's not just the LGT that suffered this fate. Mazdaspeed 6, Altima SE-R, MT Maxima, 6-6 Accords, Acura TL, and so on and so forth all turned away from "sporty" and focused on mainstream sales. Which is the root of this thread.....

Bionicman

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't put the Altima, Maxima, Accord, or TL in the same breath as the LGT and MS6. The LGT and MS6 were really in a category all their own. That said, it's funny you mention the MS6. My best friend bought a brand new MS6 not long before I bought my LGT and he actually still has it in storage. That car was awfully good to him except for the exceptionally soft factory wheels that were constantly getting bent.