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The Blackwing I drove had $10,000 of equipment and listed just over $72,000. Certainly a fair amount of money, but it seems like a bargain compared to the M3. A lot of Blackwings are even more loaded up in the $80-$90k range. Heck, this car even has a $3,000 rebate and 0.9% for 36 months.
What's not to like?
Paying 90K for a car? 10% down, 3K rebate, 84Kish financed for 36 months at 0.9% = $2359 per month.
That's just a little less than my total mortgage with impounds here in CA.
I've seen a few of these in person and agree that pictures do not do the car justice; It's breathtaking, but $2359 a month for a depreciating asset is mind boggling to me.
Paying 90K for a car? 10% down, 3K rebate, 84Kish financed for 36 months at 0.9% = $2359 per month.
That's just a little less than my total mortgage with impounds here in CA.
I've seen a few of these in person and agree that pictures do not do the car justice; It's breathtaking, but $2359 a month for a depreciating asset is mind boggling to me.
Guess I'm just old fashion.
Yours truly,
Debbie Downer
Thanks Debbie. Not sure where you are coming up with $90k for a car with a list price of $72k. My sale price was $67k. I have the money tied up in an investment that comes due in April so I would only put $30k down now and pay the rest off in April. Definitely still a sizeable chunk of change, which is why I passed.
Not sure where you are coming up with $90k for a car with a list price of $72k. My sale price was $67k. I have the money tied up in an investment that comes due in April so I would only put $30k down now and pay the rest off in April. Definitely still a sizeable chunk of change, which is why I passed.
I think you mentioned above that many Blackwings are even more loaded up in the $80-$90k range. I took the top end of the range based on what I see for sale online: https://www.edmunds.com/cadillac/ct5...0/?radius=6000
I think you mentioned above that many Blackwings are even more loaded up in the $80-$90k range. I took the top end of the range based on what I see for sale online: https://www.edmunds.com/cadillac/ct5...0/?radius=6000
Again, beautiful car.
Yeah those $80-$90k ones made the one I looked at seem like a better deal. A lot of IMSA specials in that upper $80k-$90k range. (Those make zero sense to me.) It was hard for me to justify spending that much money on a car I could track and seriously damage. It's an odd mix of car for most people, but I don't think I could live with myself if I had a car that capable and did not track it to get the most out of it. Maybe I am just getting old, but mostly my priorities have changed. It's still a hell of a car. With 3 torn discs in my back and some pretty severe nerve damage I feel like I am just looking for the most comfortable car that is also the most fun to drive. It's a weird mix.
I thought you nailed it with this observation: "There was a reviewer in Car & Driver who remarked that Cadillac finally nailed the sports sedan just in time for no one to notice."
Somewhat reliable (I keep a car for at least 7 years), performance oriented Sports Sedans, especially true RWD are a dying breed.
Some of the earlier 2nd gen cts vs are getting more affordable. I've seen a few coupes going under $30k around me. 550 hp seems pretty good for the money especially that i don't see many cts vs around.
I thought you nailed it with this observation: "There was a reviewer in Car & Driver who remarked that Cadillac finally nailed the sports sedan just in time for no one to notice."
Somewhat reliable (I keep a car for at least 7 years), performance oriented Sports Sedans, especially true RWD are a dying breed.
It's so sad to me how true both your statement and Car & Driver's statement are. The Car and Driver statement hit me especially hard in the feels because I feel like Cadillac absolutely nailed the CT4-V Blackwing just in time for my priorities to change. I still think that will be an excellent car to pick up on the used market in a few years.
Originally Posted by BillyTheMan
Some of the earlier 2nd gen cts vs are getting more affordable. I've seen a few coupes going under $30k around me. 550 hp seems pretty good for the money especially that i don't see many cts vs around.
A CTS-V is fun. The Cadillac I sporadically search for is the ATS-V. I have been looking for the perfect one for a few years, but it's nearly impossible to find due to so many available options.
The ats v seems like more of a tuner car vs the muscle of the supercharged v8 of the cts v. Not saying its slow just a different approach. The twin turbo v8 from the ct6 v intrigued me as well. Not something i could afford but don't see many twin turbo v8s in American cars.
The ats v seems like more of a tuner car vs the muscle of the supercharged v8 of the cts v. Not saying its slow just a different approach. The twin turbo v8 from the ct6 v intrigued me as well. Not something i could afford but don't see many twin turbo v8s in American cars.
The ATS-V is a more balanced track car with the adaptive suspension, Alpha platform, and about 500 lbs. less to lug around. You're right about the tuneability of that engine. 600 hp is pretty easy to obtain. It is actually slightly quicker than the 2nd gen CTS-V to 60 and in the 1/4 mile according to Car & Driver, but straight line acceleration is not its specialty. Where it really shines is on track where it runs about 4 seconds a lap faster than the CTS-V at VIR. Ironically, the CT6-V twin turbo V8 was called the Blackwing. Shame they didn't put that engine in an actual Blackwing.
A CTS-V is fun. The Cadillac I sporadically search for is the ATS-V. I have been looking for the perfect one for a few years, but it's nearly impossible to find due to so many available options.
I think it's more nearly impossible to find because of how low volume they were. The ATS-V and CT4 BW might be awesome, but IMO they're a distant second in their class. There's a reason Cadillac was offering cash back and 0.9% APR on the CT4 you looked at.
Random search of cars. com I see exactly 3 manual, 4 door, ATS-Vs for sale. By comparison, there are 60+ M3's of the same 2016-2018 vintage.
Edit: Googling found prod numbers. Around 2500 sedans, figure 15% manual, so <400 to pick from.
I think it's more nearly impossible to find because of how low volume they were. The ATS-V and CT4 BW might be awesome, but IMO they're a distant second in their class. There's a reason Cadillac was offering cash back and 0.9% APR on the CT4 you looked at.
Random search of cars. com I see exactly 3 manual, 4 door, ATS-Vs for sale. By comparison, there are 60+ M3's of the same 2016-2018 vintage.
Edit: Googling found prod numbers. Around 2500 sedans, figure 15% manual, so <400 to pick from.
The ATS-V production numbers are staggering. I never realized the 2017 sedan sold only 1/3 of the 2016 model numbers and production dropped even more in 2018. More surprising is that the coupe sold even worse and yet I see more of them for sale with stick shift. I bet dealers were probably scared to death to order a manual Cadillac sedan because they had no idea what it was at the time, but were more easily persuaded to order a manual coupe as they saw it as a sports car.
It is a small market and the M3 certainly had a lot more heritage with 30 years of production already under its belt the year the ATS-V debuted. The ATS-V is not as much of a looker as the same gen M3, but every review I read of the car liked the handling and steering better of the ATS-V. Having driven both, I agree. The reason Cadillac is offering good incentives on the 2023's is because any arriving now were delayed 9+ months due to part shortages and 2024's are arriving at the same time (with no incentives).
It seems like used Blackwings are a lot easier to find and a better car than the ATS-V. Here is to hoping that they keep depreciating like the ATS-V did so I don't feel so guilty about spending the money on one in a few years.
The reason Cadillac is offering good incentives on the 2023's is because any arriving now were delayed 9+ months due to part shortages and 2024's are arriving at the same time (with no incentives).
That's crazy. The 2022's are a lot easier to find on the used car market than every year ATS-V 6spd. sedan combined. I wonder if the take rate on ATS-V sedans with manual transmissions was a lot less than Blackwings. Enthusiasts must have come out of the wordwork for manual Blackwings since they know it is the last of its kind.
I discovered on my day off today that my stores were chock full of sport compact cars so I will have some reviews coming for you. The first one is for @SupraOfDoom and anyone else who has not had an opportunity to drive a new WRX yet. I'll sum it up by saying the car was better than expected.
Styling: Let's get it over with and talk about the elephant in the room. This car has rightfully received bad reviews about the styling. In pictures, the headlights and the C-pillar look decent and very similar to the sporty WRX concept they had years ago. The rest of the car looks like they had a fire sale on black plastic trim and Subaru thought they should try to make the WRX look like an suv. Fortunately, it does actually look better in person. Still not great, but better. I don't think too many people will be parking their WRX's and looking back saying, "Wow, that is a great looking car!" The black plastic trim has a lot of texture to it and would probably look ok in black or maybe gray. Good luck with white and red. It also looks better with the 18" wheels, but their style is not great.
The back end is the worst view in pictures and in person. I think the taillights look weird and the majority of the rear bumper is black plastic.
Performance: As you probably know the engine has been upgraded to provide torque earlier, but power also cuts out earlier. I have read lots of complaints about a small window for power delivery and low redline, but I think they are unwarranted in stock form. You would probably notice having to shift earlier than normal if you add more power. However, this new WRX probably has the best drivability of all generations. It is very easy to get in and go relatively fast. The car is quick, not fast, but we all know how to fix that. The oil filter on top of the engine makes oil changes a bit easier, but the drain plug is still on the bottom.
Ride & Handling: I very briefly drove a WRX with the 17" wheels a few weeks ago and thought it rode a bit firm. Oddly, today's WRX had the 18" wheels and it rode fine over railroad tracks, expansion joints, rough roads, etc. I was actually searching out bumpy roads to try to duplicate the firm feel I noticed earlier, but it seemed to ride better and this was a pleasant surprise. I'm just not sure why. The handling was good like any WRX. It was fairly precise and very tossable and fun like the rally car it has always been. I actually got it into a 4 wheel drift accidentally trying to feel the at the limit handling and it was completely predictable and controllable.
Driver controls: The pedal placement is excellent! Much better than any VW and perfect for heel and toe downshifting. Aside from the angled cut in the bottom of the gas pedal, these pedals look identical to every Subaru I have owned dating back to my '02 WRX. I guess "if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it." The clutch take up is also good and very forgiving. The brakes have decent feel for the street, but a new GTI feels much grippier (probably due to pad compound).
The one I drove had the "short shift kit" which can only loosely refer to the throws of the shifter since Subaru still has shifters nearly as tall as totem poles. I think this is mainly due to their massive reverse lockout collar below the shift ****. Fortunately it still shifts just fine despite the tall height. And a shorter shift lever is not nearly as difficult to replace as the bushings which need to be done underneath the car and are a MAJOR pain in the **** because you need to navigate around the driveshaft and exhaust just to access them. The good news is that I think the bushings are ok in the short shift kit so make sure you get this option if you get a new WRX to save you the hassle of those bushings. Trust me!
The steering was fine to the point that I honestly don't remember it being good or bad. Unfortunately, the plastic trim, leather, and especially the circular bumper car-like horn/airbag cover look really cheap compared to most cars in this class. The diameter and thickness of the wheel are fine, but the materials just look cheap.
Technology (or lack of it): The analog gauges and tiny digital display look like they were taken directly out of the 2015 model. They work just fine, but I cannot think of another car in this class without a digital dash with tons of customization.
This 11+ inch screen that Subaru loves to brag about is a complete waste of space. It looks cool in pictures, but once you realize the top 1/4 is radio and the bottom 1/4 is climate, the center is a bit useless. The ultimate joke is the backup camera. It only takes up about 6-7" of the screen as it is oriented horizontally on a vertical screen. Why, Subaru, why? They have all this space and just completely wasted it.
Here is another technology letdown. 2008 called and it wants its ipod aux input, 12v, and USB A chargers back. No usb C or wireless charging anywhere.
The one bit of good technology is that the Harman Kardon stereo actually sounds good. I was completely shocked as most Harman Kardon stereos sound very tinny with virtually no bass. In fact, the base stereo in the VW GTI actually sounds better than the Harman Kardon unit until you put it in a completely different mode. Then it sounds good and similar to what is in the WRX. It actually had decent bass and good clarity. It is especially surprising once you get a look at the tiny little magnet on the "subwoofer" underneath the rear window.
Fit & Finish/Materials: Both of these categories are improvements over any other WRX, but they are small improvements. The interior of a 2008 G37 is still a much nicer place to be. However, if you have had Subarus in the past and are ok with lots of hard plastic and fake carbon fiber trim, then you are in luck. The interior has good usability and is decent. The materials are just not as nice as a VW, Nissan, Mazda, etc.
Seating: I do love a good cloth seat and these don't disappoint in terms of comfort and support. Even in the $37,500+ Premium model I drove they are still fully manual and the materials are not fancy, but they get the job done and I still like them better than leather. Especially since they are heated and heated cloth seats get warm a lot quicker than leather.
Utility/usability: I believe this is the roomiest back seat ever in a WRX. A huge plus if you have a kiddo like me and the seats still fold down with no obstructions (looking at you Elantra N). The trunk is also spacious and the opening is large enough to get just about anything in and out. A lot better than a Camaro.
Bottom line: If you can live with the exterior styling, the sea of hard plastic inside, and the complete lack of technology, it is a very fun car to drive and would make an excellent sporty daily driver/family hauler- especially if you live in snowy climates.
11-28-2023, 10:49 AM
Not sure where you are coming up with $90k for a car with a list price of $72k. My sale price was $67k. I have the money tied up in an investment that comes due in April so I would only put $30k down now and pay the rest off in April. Definitely still a sizeable chunk of change, which is why I passed.
The handling was good like any WRX. It was fairly precise and very tossable and fun like the rally car it has always been. I actually got it into a 4 wheel drift accidentally trying to feel the at the limit handling and it was completely predictable and controllable.
