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How dare you even put that garbage Q50 in that lineup, lol. And there's more to a car than how fast it gets from 0 to 60. I like my IPL but you couldn't pay me to buy another Nissan product. EVERYONE i know has had to have their transmission replaced.
I finally decided it's time for the me and my G37 to part company. I'm not driving it much anymore since I have a company car to run errands in. Both CarMax and Carvana offered $6,000 as it sits but the son of a contractor working on my house offered me $7,000. I've been taking on the stereo system and a few other added items the past few weeks and should have it ready for him to pick up next weekend. It's been a fun ride and a pretty reliable car but it's hard to compete with driving a car someone else owns and pays for and even pays for the gas.
I promise all I was trying to do was innocently pick up a car from our photo bay next to the Acura store. I look up and see the Type S cleaned up in their delivery bay. I think this is strange because the car cannot be sold until 7/20. So I do the natural thing, walk over, and find out what is going on. Before I know what hit me my silver tongue has earned me the rare spot behind the steering wheel with the motor running for a touch longer drive without anyone else for the first time. (I have previously been for a ride and had someone let me drive it with them in the car.) My main goal was to see if my back and leg could handle the ride over some bumpier roads and daily driving with a clutch- something I have not been able to do since early January. Fortunately, it looks like a "go" on both accounts. Unfortunately, I no longer have those excuses to not get this amazing car and empty my piggy bank.
Fortunately, for my bank account and my "built vs. bought" attitude, price is still a substantial hurdle for me with this car. Especially since it has roughly $7,200 worth of parts and labor on it that I do like, but could probably do without half of them. I do get a bit of a break on the parts as an employee, but not enough to make me wait to order one without two of everything. On the one hand it is an absolutely amazing machine to look at, listen to, and most importantly, drive. It would also be nice to just have an awesome car that works exactly the way I want it out of the gate. Tempting. A weird phenomenon for me since I am so used to buying the underdog and then tuning it to dust goliath at your nearest racetrack or twisty road. My usual m.o. would be to get the GTI 40th anniversary for nearly half the price, do a simple tune, blow the doors off the Type S, and laugh all the way to the bank. And from where I am sitting that still looks like a damn good proposition. The question I keep asking myself is if the Type S is really twice the car the GTI is and the simple answer is, "absolutely not."
On a side note I noticed two things with the car that I had not picked up on previously. There is an absolute boat load of room in the fenders and next to the struts if anyone were to go with wider tires. I bet most 295's would fit without any issue. Crazy for a FWD car. The other thing I noticed is that the car only had 79 miles on it and the wheels were absolutely covered in brake dust. So for a daily driver I would probably swap out the pads. I can do this and the braking will probably still be good, but the braking in the GTI is amazing for not having super aggressive pads or anything even resembling 4 piston Brembo calipers. So it was a fun afternoon, but ultimately I think I just secured my stranglehold on the 40th anniversary GTI.
I like those wheels, but the flared fenders make the fitment look off, like the tire profile is too small. Needs more meat. And the rear end looks silly now to me, with the 3 tips and wild diffuser.
If the Teg came with AWD and a 6MT, that could be a game changer. In the end, as cool as you think this looks, I bet you the VW is a better car to live with.
I like those wheels, but the flared fenders make the fitment look off, like the tire profile is too small. Needs more meat. And the rear end looks silly now to me, with the 3 tips and wild diffuser.
If the Teg came with AWD and a 6MT, that could be a game changer. In the end, as cool as you think this looks, I bet you the VW is a better car to live with.
I agree and those are big fat 265's in there!?! Maybe I was too close, but the rear end actually looks pretty good in person. I think if the teg had AWD it would need a lot more power to get my interest, but I like where you are going. The VW is 100x the better car to live with just based on the ride alone with those crazy fast adaptive dampers and I think it is also going to look really good in person.
Almost positive there are after market exhausts for the CTR and probably soon the ITS, which have only 2 tips and would solve a lot of the goofy look of the rear end.
I’d personally spend the premium for the Integra if I was going FWD. The base stereo and lack of proximity entry would be deal breakers for the GTI.
Another thing to consider is resale. A year from now when 4dr moves on, I bet the type s has barely depreciated, where as the GTI almost certainly will depreciate more—especially with rumors of an interior redesign and the return of buttons in the pipeline. At least that is another angle I’d use to mentally justify the Integra.
Almost positive there are after market exhausts for the CTR and probably soon the ITS, which have only 2 tips and would solve a lot of the goofy look of the rear end.
I’d personally spend the premium for the Integra if I was going FWD. The base stereo and lack of proximity entry would be deal breakers for the GTI.
Another thing to consider is resale. A year from now when 4dr moves on, I bet the type s has barely depreciated, where as the GTI almost certainly will depreciate more—especially with rumors of an interior redesign and the return of buttons in the pipeline. At least that is another angle I’d use to mentally justify the Integra.
Well this is interesting. You are the last person I would expect to vote against a VW.
The exhaust is ok for me on the Type S. I keep trying to justify the cost of the Integra and I have thought about resale too. The problem is that base S 2022 GTIs are selling for more than I can buy the uber rare 40th anniversary for right now. There are 200 Acura dealers in the U.S. and all of their first cars have roughly $7-$8k of accessories which puts the cost near $60k (roughly double what I will pay for the GTI) and they are 95% white with gold wheels. The problem is that so much money in accessories will not help the resale value at all so it just jacks up my price. The fact that the first 200 are overwhelmingly white, they have a ton of useless (for me) & expensive accessories, and there is no employee discount for me really makes me want to wait and order a different color combo. If I did the math right there should only be about 188 40th anniversary GTIs in red with a stick shift so they are actually more rare than the Integra. The GTI still should depreciate more, but paying $5k under sticker for it compared to $6k over sticker with accessories for the Integra will insulate me a bit. Also the fact that if both cars depreciate the same percentage, the Integra actually depreciates twice as much dollar-wise since it costs twice as much to start with.
I am somewhat on the same page as you though since I agree the Type S is the better car, maybe just not the 1st shipments that are jacked up with tons of accessories. I have to keep the GTI for a year with employee pricing so maybe I keep it a year and see if I still want the Type S or maybe see what improvements VW makes to the GTI. However, I took a really close look at the upcoming ID Buzz van that supposedly has the updates and they just got rid of the slider controls on the dash for volume and climate. It still has the haptic controls on the steering wheel. I'm actually not too worried about those as I never had an issue. There was a letter in the latest car & driver from someone who had done 10 autocrosses in their VW and not once did they turn on their heated steering wheel. I have never done that either so I think it may be a little overblown. Because the 40th GTI is based on the S it also loses the slider for volume and climate that everyone complains about and actually has a volume and tuning ****. Hallelujah!
You are right that the stereo in the Integra is better and intelligent key would be nice in the GTI. However, the fact that the Integra only has auto one touch up/down windows on the front compared to all 4 in the GTI is going to **** me off to no end. The stereo in the GTI is better than the Leaf so it will be ok until I can upgrade it if I decide to keep it a while. I thought I was going to miss XM radio, but I have had my Leaf longer without it than with it and I don't miss it. The lack of intelligent key is a bummer, but fortunately not a deal breaker for me. I feel like I can very easily upgrade the stereo, power, and maybe shifter in the GTI to actually make them much better than the Integra for about $27,000 less. However, the GTI is more versatile, has a much better ride, and I think even better brakes around town and I doubt I will ever be able to make the Integra better than the GTI in those categories.
Well this is interesting. You are the last person I would expect to vote against a VW.
The exhaust is ok for me on the Type S. I keep trying to justify the cost of the Integra and I have thought about resale too. The problem is that base S 2022 GTIs are selling for more than I can buy the uber rare 40th anniversary for right now. There are 200 Acura dealers in the U.S. and all of their first cars have roughly $7-$8k of accessories which puts the cost near $60k (roughly double what I will pay for the GTI) and they are 95% white with gold wheels. The problem is that so much money in accessories will not help the resale value at all so it just jacks up my price. The fact that the first 200 are overwhelmingly white, they have a ton of useless (for me) & expensive accessories, and there is no employee discount for me really makes me want to wait and order a different color combo. If I did the math right there should only be about 188 40th anniversary GTIs in red with a stick shift so they are actually more rare than the Integra. The GTI still should depreciate more, but paying $5k under sticker for it compared to $6k over sticker with accessories for the Integra will insulate me a bit. Also the fact that if both cars depreciate the same percentage, the Integra actually depreciates twice as much dollar-wise since it costs twice as much to start with.
I am somewhat on the same page as you though since I agree the Type S is the better car, maybe just not the 1st shipments that are jacked up with tons of accessories. I have to keep the GTI for a year with employee pricing so maybe I keep it a year and see if I still want the Type S or maybe see what improvements VW makes to the GTI. However, I took a really close look at the upcoming ID Buzz van that supposedly has the updates and they just got rid of the slider controls on the dash for volume and climate. It still has the haptic controls on the steering wheel. I'm actually not too worried about those as I never had an issue. There was a letter in the latest car & driver from someone who had done 10 autocrosses in their VW and not once did they turn on their heated steering wheel. I have never done that either so I think it may be a little overblown. Because the 40th GTI is based on the S it also loses the slider for volume and climate that everyone complains about and actually has a volume and tuning ****. Hallelujah!
You are right that the stereo in the Integra is better and intelligent key would be nice in the GTI. However, the fact that the Integra only has auto one touch up/down windows on the front compared to all 4 in the GTI is going to **** me off to no end. The stereo in the GTI is better than the Leaf so it will be ok until I can upgrade it if I decide to keep it a while. I thought I was going to miss XM radio, but I have had my Leaf longer without it than with it and I don't miss it. The lack of intelligent key is a bummer, but fortunately not a deal breaker for me. I feel like I can very easily upgrade the stereo, power, and maybe shifter in the GTI to actually make them much better than the Integra for about $27,000 less. However, the GTI is more versatile, has a much better ride, and I think even better brakes around town and I doubt I will ever be able to make the Integra better than the GTI in those categories.
It's not that I'm against the VW. I just don't share your enthusiasm for the 40th, especially compared to the ITS. It's just lacking too many features I've grown accustomed to over the years, and I dislike the gearing. Personally, if you can get over buttons--which it sounds like you can--I think the Golf R is hits the middle ground in price, performance, and features. But, you're stuck with leather, which I know you're dead set against.......
The back seat in the CTR/ITS with the lack of a 3rd seatbelt, no one touch down, no HVAC certainly is a miss. But I rarely open the rear windows, so I think having to dig into my pockets for a key fob like it's the 1990s again would grate on me more every time I lock/unlock the car lol. And I always have the radio on, so I'd appreciate the ELS every day, where the base GTI stereo would likely disappoint me.
While the 40th is rare, it's simply a different trim level. I highly doubt it's going to depreciate at a different rate than other trim levels. Then again, the market is still bonkers, and I was under the impression you could get cars at MSRP or less, so I was basing my thought process on that. Having a bunch of accessories tacked on, in addition to the likely dealer markup is absurd, and I agree, unless you absolutely positively have to have a new car right now, waiting out this initial batch is a sound plan. It sounds like Acura is targeting ~3500 units.
On the flip side, a tune, shifter, and upgraded stereo is tacking on a couple thousand dollars to the GTI and closing the gap a bit. And if you're honest with the future buyer, it's going to hurt resale because tuning it will trip a TD1 flag and void any powertrain warranty remaining. I haven't driven the CTR/ITS but everyone raves about the shifter and is meh about the GTI/R setup. I have ever shifter mod there is -- Diesel Geek STS, aluminum shift cable bracket, brass bushings, weighted shift ****, etc--and it's just OK. No where near as good as my G37 or STI. If the inputs matter, you're not going to catch the CTR/ITS. Even power and handling wise, those platforms with 265s are a huge advantage that you won't overcome.
I think I said this before, but I'm glad I'm not in the market. Not only with the inflated prices, but every car I'd consider has what I think of as deal breakers. Good luck.
It's not that I'm against the VW. I just don't share your enthusiasm for the 40th, especially compared to the ITS. It's just lacking too many features I've grown accustomed to over the years, and I dislike the gearing. Personally, if you can get over buttons--which it sounds like you can--I think the Golf R is hits the middle ground in price, performance, and features. But, you're stuck with leather, which I know you're dead set against.......
The back seat in the CTR/ITS with the lack of a 3rd seatbelt, no one touch down, no HVAC certainly is a miss. But I rarely open the rear windows, so I think having to dig into my pockets for a key fob like it's the 1990s again would grate on me more every time I lock/unlock the car lol. And I always have the radio on, so I'd appreciate the ELS every day, where the base GTI stereo would likely disappoint me.
While the 40th is rare, it's simply a different trim level. I highly doubt it's going to depreciate at a different rate than other trim levels. Then again, the market is still bonkers, and I was under the impression you could get cars at MSRP or less, so I was basing my thought process on that. Having a bunch of accessories tacked on, in addition to the likely dealer markup is absurd, and I agree, unless you absolutely positively have to have a new car right now, waiting out this initial batch is a sound plan. It sounds like Acura is targeting ~3500 units.
On the flip side, a tune, shifter, and upgraded stereo is tacking on a couple thousand dollars to the GTI and closing the gap a bit. And if you're honest with the future buyer, it's going to hurt resale because tuning it will trip a TD1 flag and void any powertrain warranty remaining. I haven't driven the CTR/ITS but everyone raves about the shifter and is meh about the GTI/R setup. I have ever shifter mod there is -- Diesel Geek STS, aluminum shift cable bracket, brass bushings, weighted shift ****, etc--and it's just OK. No where near as good as my G37 or STI. If the inputs matter, you're not going to catch the CTR/ITS. Even power and handling wise, those platforms with 265s are a huge advantage that you won't overcome.
I think I said this before, but I'm glad I'm not in the market. Not only with the inflated prices, but every car I'd consider has what I think of as deal breakers. Good luck.
All good points, but maybe a few things you didn't know. The nostalgia of the 40th anniversary and the tornado red is a bit special to me. I grew up with so many cheap used VW's in my family, but never actually owned one myself so I think it would be cool to finally get one. It just brings back lots of good memories.
The Golf R performance is only marginally better than the 40th anniversary and does not qualify for employee pricing so it is $17,000 more. The Golf R and GTI tunes are remarkably similar so for a few hundred bucks I get a GTI that is significantly faster than the Golf R if that's what I decide to do. Maybe I spend $500-$1,000 on a much better stereo than the marginal harmon kardon in the Golf R and I don't have to deal with leather seats that are too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter. A blue Golf R 20th anniversary does look nice and AWD is cool, but it is unavailable at either of my stores and does not make a whole lot of financial sense. Who knows, maybe the 2024 Golf R is awesome and that is the next car I get. Knowing my luck, VW will announce all the changes to the 2024s the day after I bring the GTI home and they will be amazing.
I agree that the 40th anniversary GTI will probably depreciate no differently than an SE model since they are similarly priced. I am insulated against at least the first $5k of depreciation and I am ok with that. I have come out ahead on the last 4 vehicles I owned. I am not concerned about reselling the car either. All my cars for the last 20+ years have been tuned and I never had an issue selling them because I don't cut corners. Then again, this is going to be a daily driver so I may not even end up tuning it. (Famous last words)
The only thing I cannot agree with is that you think the stock shifter in the G37 and STI is better than the new GTI. Have you driven a MK8 GTI with the adaptive dampers? I'm not saying the GTI shifter is great, but the G37 and STI have probably two of the worst stock shifters I have ever driven. The G37 had so much driveline slop (like the 370Z) that you could actually watch the shifter move significantly if you lifted off the gas. It only shifted well after I replaced the transmission mount, entire shift assembly, shift ****, entire clutch assembly, motor mounts, rear differential bushings, and added a differential brace. The STI shifter was so tall it looked like a totem pole and the clutch was so stiff and the take up so short that it was nearly impossible to drive smoothly. I replaced the entire shift assembly, bushings, and shift **** in the STI and it was ok, but still pretty tough to drive smoothly. This was the Type RA so it may have been a bit different than the STI you had. I did not notice any of those issues with the GTI. I might change the shift **** and add a Neuspeed short shift kit, but that would be about it.
I'm not too worried about the platform of the Type R or Type S and the slightly wider tires because I don't plan to track these cars. If I was getting another track car it certainly would not be a FWD car with only 320 hp. What does concern me about those cars is that the ride is not nearly as good as the GTI with adaptive dampers and the brake pads dust like crazy. To put things in perspective, a regular GTI S without the adaptive dampers is also too bumpy for me so maybe I am more sensitive now with my back injury.
Well thanks for talking me through this. All that's left to do is drive the GTI home and back through town to make sure I don't have too much pain daily driving a stick shift. It's been too long.
The Golf R performance is only marginally better than the 40th anniversary and does not qualify for employee pricing so it is $17,000 more. The Golf R and GTI tunes are remarkably similar so for a few hundred bucks I get a GTI that is significantly faster than the Golf R if that's what I decide to do.
LOL.
There is nearly a full second difference in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. That's going to translate into more than a few car lengths difference, hardly marginal.
The tunes are similar, because they are essentially the same motors, minus the turbo, with the GTI designed for low-mid range power, and the R mid-high rpm power. Since I know you're all about APR, they claim an additional ~70 hp on the R. The GTI is not going to be significantly faster. Instead, the R is likely to get an ever bigger jump off the line due to AWD, and at speed, the gearing and turbo that doesn't run out of breath at high rpm is going to rule the day.
Beyond APR claims, I say this having 2 stage 1 tuned EA888 cars, one with the IS20 the other IS38.
It is supposed to be here around the 2nd week in August.
Originally Posted by Lego_Maniac
LOL.
There is nearly a full second difference in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. That's going to translate into more than a few car lengths difference, hardly marginal.
The tunes are similar, because they are essentially the same motors, minus the turbo, with the GTI designed for low-mid range power, and the R mid-high rpm power. Since I know you're all about APR, they claim an additional ~70 hp on the R. The GTI is not going to be significantly faster. Instead, the R is likely to get an ever bigger jump off the line due to AWD, and at speed, the gearing and turbo that doesn't run out of breath at high rpm is going to rule the day.
Beyond APR claims, I say this having 2 stage 1 tuned EA888 cars, one with the IS20 the other IS38.
I write that whole thing about why I like the GTI and you are stuck on 0-60 and 1/4 mile times? If I were worried about that I would convince myself to get the DSG because it is also a lot faster. Have you driven the MK8 GTI and Golf R? I have. Yes, the Golf R does have AWD which does help it tremendously get off the line and makes up the majority of the difference in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. The power difference makes up the rest and maybe a small portion can be attributed to the tires. The problem is I am never going to line up next to a Golf R on the street and race them from a dead stop to 60 or to a 1/4 mile and risk getting my car impounded. What I am going to do is drive it every day and in real world driving the two cars are so similar than many reviews say the Golf R is a great car, until you drive the GTI.
Let me clarify. It is difficult to take out all the variables in road tests so I will stick with Car & Driver and look at DCT Golf R's and GTI's to take out the shifting/clutch variable. To get a better feel for actual on the road driving it is important to look at rolling start 5-60 mph runs as well as top gear runs, braking, and skid pad. When you look at both cars you will see the numbers are virtually identical between both cars and the GTI is still at a significant HP & torque disadvantage.
Golf R 5-60 mph is 5.2 and the GTI is 5.5. Top gear 30-50 is identical in both cars at 2.7. Top gear 50-70 is 3.6 in the Golf R and 3.8 in the GTI. Car & Driver actually tested the Golf R on 2 sets of tires and the GTI beats the Golf R in all braking and skidpad measurements when the Golf R is on Hankook tires, but the Golf R beats the GTI when it is on Pirelli tires (n/a on GTI) by almost the same margins. So yes, if I were to tune the GTI to have close to or over 400 lb/ft. of torque (depending on tune) and compare it to a stock Golf R, yes it would run away from the Golf R easily and I still save nearly $17,000. Again, not saying I am even going to tune the GTI, but if I did...
I write that whole thing about why I like the GTI and you are stuck on 0-60 and 1/4 mile times?
Yes, because most of what you wrote makes sense as to why you favor the GTI. It's a message board, we discuss cars, I'm sorry if my opinion on the matter doesn't support yours.
I don't have an emotional connection to the GTI because of past family cars. I'm a pragmatic guy, who if I was in the market, would be shopping many of the same cars. However, I'd be looking at them through the lens of 5-6-7 years of ownership, not 1, making it easier, at least for me, to justify the price difference.
I think the shifter in the Golfs kinda sucks, it's too light and vague. A lot of other reviews echo my opinion. Sure, the G37 has a ton of NVH, but I prefer the extra notchiness of the STI (all with the factory STS) and the G. They are all better than an automatic though. But inputs are subjective, if you like the Golf setup, great!!
Originally Posted by 4DRZ
If I were worried about that I would convince myself to get the DSG because it is also a lot faster. Have you driven the MK8 GTI and Golf R? I have. Yes, the Golf R does have AWD which does help it tremendously get off the line and makes up the majority of the difference in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. The power difference makes up the rest and maybe a small portion can be attributed to the tires. The problem is I am never going to line up next to a Golf R on the street and race them from a dead stop to 60 or to a 1/4 mile and risk getting my car impounded. What I am going to do is drive it every day and in real world driving the two cars are so similar than many reviews say the Golf R is a great car, until you drive the GTI.
I haven't driven either, don't need to waste my time, or a sales guys time for a joy ride. How much have you really driven them though? How many times have you redlined the first 2-3 gears, or gone ramping on a cloverleaf, or slung off connected traffic circles, or hustled down your favorite twisty back road, or gone on a couple hundred mile road trip? It's an evolutionary, not revolutionary platform, and I'm familiar enough with the MK7, the EA888, the transmissions, and the changes to the MK8 to have an opinion without a 10 minute test drive. Is it better, in many ways, yes, in some ways, no. If your rational is that the R (or CTR or ITS) isn't worth the extra $$, that is a valid opinion that many people hold, and I won't disagree with. Also agree, I'm not driving around looking for stoplight action, however, in my world of daily driving, off the line acceleration matters. To exit my housing development I have to turn either left or right onto a 4 lane divided highway, I also have several merge points where roads drop from 3-2, or 2-1 lanes, making traction pretty damn fun. So, for my real world driving, I appreciate the difference at speeds that aren't going to get me arrested.
However.....
Originally Posted by 4DRZ
Let me clarify. It is difficult to take out all the variables in road tests so I will stick with Car & Driver and look at DCT Golf R's and GTI's to take out the shifting/clutch variable. To get a better feel for actual on the road driving it is important to look at rolling start 5-60 mph runs as well as top gear runs, braking, and skid pad. When you look at both cars you will see the numbers are virtually identical between both cars and the GTI is still at a significant HP & torque disadvantage.
Golf R 5-60 mph is 5.2 and the GTI is 5.5. Top gear 30-50 is identical in both cars at 2.7. Top gear 50-70 is 3.6 in the Golf R and 3.8 in the GTI. Car & Driver actually tested the Golf R on 2 sets of tires and the GTI beats the Golf R in all braking and skidpad measurements when the Golf R is on Hankook tires, but the Golf R beats the GTI when it is on Pirelli tires (n/a on GTI) by almost the same margins. So yes, if I were to tune the GTI to have close to or over 400 lb/ft. of torque (depending on tune) and compare it to a stock Golf R, yes it would run away from the Golf R easily and I still save nearly $17,000. Again, not saying I am even going to tune the GTI, but if I did...
Let me clarify. Comparing mod to mod, the Golf R is a faster car.
I can't quite follow if your original comment was comparing a Stage 1 GTI to a stock R, or if you're saying the tunes are the same and somehow the tuned GTI is going to be significantly faster than a tuned R? The former would be a self fulfilling comparison--the modded car is faster than the stock car. But why would you compare a modded car to a stock car when discussing them both?--and the latter is simply wrong, The AWD and gearing advantage will be even greater.
So after years of discussing manuals, you are pivoting to DSG cars and cherry picking metrics for a transmission you aren't considering to justify the GTI vs R. Look at the rest of the DSG metrics, the R slaughters the GTI. And the DSG is stupid easy to launch--disable traction control, transmission in sport, brake down, throttle to the floor, GO! It's so incredibly easy to access the DSGs performance that I launch my wife's A4 on a regular basis--usually to the sour looks of the wife and kids. Look at the top gear times for the manuals --8.7 vs 10, and 5.8 vs 7.1, it's a more powerful engine, with more aggressive gearing--much like the STI, 2nd tops out around 57 mph.
Look, you seemingly zeroed in on the 40th as the next car awhile ago. Everyone has to balance what they want, what they need, and what they are comfortable spending, It the GTI checks off those boxes for you, then by all means, snag one and enjoy it, it's a great car and it sounds like you can get a killer deal. A lot of people agree with you that the R isn't worth the premium. Spend the $$ on mods instead! But, to deny the R isn't quicker using apples to oranges comparisons, or a configuration you aren't even considering based on a narrow definition of performance is silly.
Feel free to IM me if you want to debate the merits of the R vs GTI in more detail. I'm sure Rochester and the other 5 people following this thread are tired of our back and forth.
06-29-2023, 09:58 AM
.
Unless you ride the clutch because you don't know any better, most manual transmissions are bullet proof.
The stereo in the GTI is better than the Leaf so it will be ok until I can upgrade it if I decide to keep it a while. I thought I was going to miss XM radio, but I have had my Leaf longer without it than with it and I don't miss it. The lack of intelligent key is a bummer, but fortunately not a deal breaker for me. I feel like I can very easily upgrade the stereo, power, and maybe shifter in the GTI to actually make them much better than the Integra for about $27,000 less. However, the GTI is more versatile, has a much better ride, and I think even better brakes around town and I doubt I will ever be able to make the Integra better than the GTI in those categories.
