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No way I’d pay north of $50k for a fwd car. At some point, I’d just concede manual and get a gently used M340.
It's a tough sell for me too. I was placing the order primarily to try to get one for our Acura store and to get a chance to try out the car. I was only going to buy it if it really blew me away since all the reviews on the Civic Type R are so glowing. Even then I think the Integra Type S just makes the Civic Type R seem like a better deal at about $7,000 less. Then again $45k for a FWD Civic also seems like a lot to me.
I agree with most of the things said in this video. I found it most interesting that the lap times were nearly identical between all the cars on the same type of tire. Some cars still had a bit of a tire advantage with more width and less sidewall like the Civic Type R, but it amazes me that the top 4 cars were all within .24 of a second of each other. That is crazy when you consider how different those 4 cars are.
It was also interesting to see some science used to compare the stereos. I rank them in the same order so my ears must still be working decently. I think the Subaru would have finished dead last in that part of the comparison, but I also agree that it is probably one of the best driving experiences. The steering in my Type RA was absolutely excellent and razor sharp. However, I was not a fan of the heavy clutch which made it difficult to drive smoothly.
I have yet to drive the Elantra N or Type R, but the seats were good in both. The Honda seats are extremely supportive, but might be a bit much for a daily driver to wriggle in and out of every day. I do worry that the Type R will be a rough ride on the street. Carlos Lago was bouncing around quite a bit more on that track that I have also driven on in a number of different cars. Fortunately, the Type R styling is such a huge improvement over the last generation. Hopefully, the 2024 refresh of the Elantra N is enough of an improvement as it is not aesthetically pleasing inside or out. It does appear to be the performance bargain of the bunch with the majority of the money spent on performance instead of fit or finish. In that way it reminds me a bit of the Mitsubishi Evolution.
The exact opposite of that would be the Golf R which has significantly more features and uses nicer materials than all of the other cars. It is not as sharp and on edge to drive, but surprisingly that seems to do little to curb lap times. However, it is probably the best daily driver of the bunch with the most practicality. And lets not forget the adaptive suspension that should straight up be considered magic on bumpy roads and can somehow adjust up to 200 times/second, just like the Cadillac Blackwings. I also think the constant complaints about the infotainment are a bit overblown. I have driven many Golf R's and GTI's and never had an issue. I would still prefer buttons, but none of these cars are perfect and I can live with that. Unfortunately, the Golf R is the most expensive of the group and that makes it pretty hard to overlook the GTI.
I have also driven the GR Corolla (Core) and my initial impression was that it looks absolutely fantastic in white. That is until you get inside where the design is disjointed at best and the materials are rental car cheap. The JBL stereo was the most powerful of the group, but also the most disappointing. It sounded as if all the sound was coming from the front tweeters placed as far away as possible near the base of the windshield. Maybe a subwoofer would help. Also disappointing in sound was the exhaust. I read a lot of reviews that said it sounded amazing. It has a nice low tone at idle, but then it just sounds disappointing after that. The car feels like it was pieced together haphazardly from 4 different cars and driving it felt no more special or fun than a base WRX. The ride of the GR Corolla is the opposite of the Golf R. Very bumpy on all but the smoothest roads. And lets not forget that the back seat and rear cargo area are miniscule at best.
The Civic Type R is probably the best choice if you do a lot of track days on short tracks without long straights, you don't mind what appears to be a bumpy ride, and you like some practicality of a hatch- albeit with a bit of a high lift over height. It definitely seems like the most focused and precise driving instrument of the group. The bang for the buck performance car of the group has to be the Elantra N as long as you can live with a plastic fantastic interior and an exterior that will probably not age well. The Golf R is probably the most well-rounded car and the best daily driver if you can afford it and you can handle the capacitive touch controls. The GR Corolla seems like Toyota's version of the STI with it's cheap disjointed interior, but without the useable back seat and trunk. It's also like the Subaru in that it is probably just as much fun if not more in the snow since it is the only other car with locking and adjustable differentials on both ends.
It has been quite the rollercoaster of emotions for me lately regarding a certain red 40th anniversary GTI 6spd.
A little back story- Most stores are lucky to get 1 of these cars since there are only 1,500 and half of them are going to be DCT. We got a yellow stick shift that I thought very hard about because I thought it would be our only one. I just could not do the bright yellow with black wheels and red accents. It looked too much like a bumble bee with ketchup all over it to me. Anyway, because we spent millions to completely redo our VW store last year, we are now showing 4 more 40th anniversary GTIs inbound for a total of 5!?! I bet there are some states that don't see that many of these cars.
One of these inbound cars is a red 40th anniversary GTI that is actually a stick shift. Exactly the color I have wanted since I was a little kid staring at the Tornado red GTI 16v at our local store in 1987 and again in 1992 when they gained the Recaro seats, BBS wheels, Pirelli tires, big bumpers, and Euro lights. To say I was beyond excited would be an understatement. I immediately chatted 2 of our VW salesmen and the team lead and asked them to mark it sold for me. The team lead told me it was already sold?? How could that be? I was the one that told him about the 40th anniversary edition when VW first announced it last Sept. I have been asking about this car constantly since it was announced and he kept telling me he would let me know when one became available. Unfortunately, he never did that.
Apparently one of our technicians wanted a red GTI since the MK8 came out and our team lead told him about the 40th anniversary before I technically told him I wanted to buy one. WTF? At least this technician is a little bit indecisive about the car because he would have to sell his Jetta first which he really likes. I also bet it would take some time to sell and I am sure they would not hold a 40th anniversary GTI for him for too long. So there is still a chance, but I totally feel like I got robbed since my team lead never mentioned someone else wanting the exact same car.
We are also getting in pearl white and urano gray 40th anniversary GTIs with the manual transmission. Both of those cars are still available and look good, but I think I will have to see them in person if I am going to get one over red if my technician takes that one.
Yeah Elantra N seems like the best bang for the buck, I just can't get over the styling. The 2024 refresh does look a bit better but there's still something I don't like about it that I can't exactly place. Maybe it's the overdone door panels, or the way the paint job makes the car look like it's tilted too far forward.
I don't know what happend to my post but I am looking to get an SUV next. I am not planning to buy for a few years I really like:
2012 BMW X3 with the Straight 6 found one for 7k
2018 Volvo XC60 they are around 20k I want the one with the BW Sound System
2021 Mercedes GLB 250 30k currently
2018 Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quad 40k currently
I like them all. The Alfa & BMW probably has the worst interior of them all. The Merc has the best. I love that long 2 screen. I actually hate the newer interior in comparision. I love that the Merc has dual memory seats, which I don't think it even offered on the X3.
If they were all at the same price and that was a price I was willing to pay, I would buy the Merc
You ever thought of a used Lexus isF? i know its rwd but they are pretty damn fast, sharp looking in the right colour, and sound fantastic with a ppe header. Being a toyota v8 doesn't hurt either since they seem super reliable no matter how hard you push them. (I track with a few of them who run KWv3s and man they just outclass my G, lol)
I quite like them even though i prefer 2 doors. I've often been tempted to go down the isF route but the challenge of wrestling a z06 down the track seems like it'd be more exciting/dangerous lol
I may have to retract my previous statement about the IS F and maybe even consider the new IS 500 F Sport Performance (what a mouthful). My Lexus store just got in a new blue IS 500 F Sport Performance (why is the name sooo long?) and it looks great! I have been reading some reviews on the IS F and it sounds amazing as long as I get 2011 or newer with the revamped suspension. I am still a little worried about ride quality with my back. As long as it rides a touch better than a 2015-2020 BMW M3 Competition or Subaru Type RA I think I would be ok. It sounds like the IS 500 F Sport Performance has the same amazing engine with even more power and some newer tech, but is dialed back a bit and maybe what I need. If it just weren't so damn expensive. Has anyone driven these cars and can comment on ride quality?
Wow, that new one looks good. Even better in person. What was that you were saying about a "wandering eye" @Rochester ?
Edit: I just realized these are pics of the IS350 without the hood bulge. Whoops! The IS500 looks even more aggressive. There are almost no pics of this car in this color. Maybe it is a bit more rare than I thought.
Can you get the IS 500 F Sport Performance for sticker, or is there a markup charged? 70Kish out the door? With FWD sport compacts starting near 50K, the IS500 seems like a screaming deal starting at just under 60K: https://www.lexus.com/models/IS500
Doug DeMuro bases on it, but he is pretty critical when it comes to Japanese makes
Can you get the IS 500 F Sport Performance for sticker, or is there a markup charged? 70Kish out the door? With FWD sport compacts starting near 50K, the IS500 seems like a screaming deal starting at just under 60K: https://www.lexus.com/models/IS500
Doug DeMuro bases on it, but he is pretty critical when it comes to Japanese makes
I can get it below sticker, but it is still a chunk of change since I want the premium package with the black forged BBS wheels. (I just added some pics above.) Now I am only waiting for the car to get set up so I can drive it. I got to go check it out, sit in it, and fire it up. It is really nice and looks even more aggressive in person. It has the white interior on a lot of bits which I was unsure of at first, but it actually looks pretty cool in person.
Now clearly I don't need this much car for a daily driver, but it would be really nice. The GTI would meet my needs perfectly, has a stick shift, and would be better in the winter. Is the Lexus more than twice the car since it costs more than twice as much? No, but the fit/finish, sound of the engine, power, sound of the stereo, etc. is easily 20 times better than the GTI. See, logic.
I just watched the Doug DeMuro video and ironically, most of the "old" stuff in the interior he did not like, I think is actually really cool. I loved the look of the tach/speedo and did not even realize it slides. Cool. I missed the CD player too, but I think my old CD's would sound amazing on that 1,800 watt Mark Levinson stereo. I am surprised that Doug did not even mention that amazing feature, but did dwell on stupid little stuff like rear seat air vents and cup holders in arm rests. Really? You think anyone cares about any of that in this car? Nope.
I think my most important question is at this price point does it make sense against the CT4-V Blackwing? On paper the performance of the Blackwing is definitely better, especially on track. However, I doubt I would track either car much. I do usually prefer the stick shift like the Blackwing, but these issues with my back and my leg have got me reconsidering A/T and paddle shifters a touch more. The biggest difference I noticed immediately between both cars is that the Lexus just feels special and the Blackwing does not. The interior fit and finish of the Lexus is in another League and I think the styling is more aggressive too. Hopefully, it drives as good as it looks.
@4DRZ Is350 will be a downgrade from the G, man.
Dont do it! ISF, i really think you will like if you dont mind paddle shift. It shifts pretty quick for a Slushbox, i havent driven one but ive sat passenger for a few laps to see what its like. They pull hard no matter what rpm they are at when they exit a corner lol. ( it feels like they are cheating! )
There are a few in the track group i like to run with, it is an upgrade to the G in every which way. It also will let you have a practical everyday car, with luxuries like the G, but with a v8 pushing hard.
Dude, it is a fast, well handling car! Most ones I've been around have KwV3s, but one is running TRD suspension it came with and dude likes it a lot.You need to drive one and see if it feels like a YOU car, but knowing your history with the G and the driving you like to do, i feel like it would be a fantastic car for you.
Sorry to hear about the golf though, what a ****ed up world we live in when you are willing to pay full price on a car you want, but still cant have it in the colour you want (Let alone snaked by co-worker).
Out of curiosity though...you said a Pearl white one If it had black interior, and red recaro seats in the front???? I wonder lol. Kind of like an old integra type R or this old mr2. Could be cool, i kind of dig that look tbh
I had an integra for 17 years, Dont get that acura ILX rebadged as an integra, its not a 'teggy... dont do it man! **** that! If thats the case get a civic type r! Yes im spiteful and i HATE the new integra lol
Go test drive an isF and let your heart decide for you ( then get a ppe header and that car sounds amazing!)
Anyhow goodluck man, patience will lead you into the right car!
Last edited by TheDevilsG; 06-17-2023 at 10:46 PM.
Can you get the IS 500 F Sport Performance for sticker, or is there a markup charged? 70Kish out the door? With FWD sport compacts starting near 50K, the IS500 seems like a screaming deal starting at just under 60K: https://www.lexus.com/models/IS500
Doug DeMuro bases on it, but he is pretty critical when it comes to Japanese makes
06-10-2023, 10:53 PM
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