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Every day that passes, I realize that I will never buy a new car. They're just pure garbage in my book. Crap load of electronics, no manual transmission, no driver orientation, electronic steering, assists, cup holders, sunroofs. I even got to be in a new NSX. It was garbage! No Senna magic like the original one, and the interior was ripped off of my old Civic!
Go back and read the post right above yours about the M2 CS. That should take care of most of your complaints- even an M2 competition should work.
Originally Posted by 2GoRNot2G
Coolest thing about the new M2 CS is that it will have the same engine as the M4 competition (plus a manual tranny option) giving it a considerable bump in power over the M2 competition. Even as nice as nice as some of these BMW's have gotten, I still can't get over their terrible reliability. I keep telling myself I will never own another BMW... at least until they release the M8. LOL
M2 Competition and M2 CS both have the engine from the M3/M4 as well as its carbon strut tower brace/front end support. The difference is merely the tune which gains a bit of power, but loses some torque. If the M2 CS ever becomes reasonably priced on the used car market (<$60k) I would consider it, but that seems doubtful based on the exclusivity. I think I would rather spend my money on a used M2 Competition and tune it to have about another 100+ hp & torque over the CS.
Originally Posted by ngolbuff
Just add gold wheels to this and it will look like the car that you picked as your picture.
That is the CS with the gold wheels.
Originally Posted by SupraOfDoom
Just make sure if you do "replace your G" that you do it near tax return season so I can get some of those parts off it .
Haha! I'll keep that in mind, but I don't know that I would part the car out.
Go back and read the post right above yours about the M2 CS. That should take care of most of your complaints- even an M2 competition should work.
Okay, so I read it. Impressive numbers, I admit. But look at the picture of it. You see how it looks? And also that infotainment screen? I-drive right? Yeah, no thanks. If I'll buy a BMW I'd stick with the anything that was made before Chris Bangle came along. The E39/E38/E46 is the last line of good BMW cars. Anything after those generations is crap in my opinion. LS swap any of those 3 and god damn those would be some good and reliable daily drivers. Could make it even faster than any new BMW out there if forced induction would be installed.
Honestly though, I recall you wanting to buy an ATS-V. I will say that Cadillac still has its own face compared to the newer cars being produced and probably is the only good looking car out there. They have improved tremendously since the 90s. I don't know about the handling of the car if it is any good, because many American cars still do not handle as good as Japanese or European cars and since electric steering is becoming a major thing now the whole feel of the car is completely lost.
electric steering is becoming a major thing now the whole feel of the car is completely lost.
Virtually every car has electric steering now-a-days, even the M models and Porsche.
Don't get me wrong, I'd much prefer hydraulic rack and pinion steering, but there is no getting around it unless you want to live in cars that are a decade plus old. The catch 22 is that performance has taken a significant leap forward since then.
Okay, so I read it. Impressive numbers, I admit. But look at the picture of it. You see how it looks? And also that infotainment screen? I-drive right? Yeah, no thanks. If I'll buy a BMW I'd stick with the anything that was made before Chris Bangle came along. The E39/E38/E46 is the last line of good BMW cars. Anything after those generations is crap in my opinion. LS swap any of those 3 and god damn those would be some good and reliable daily drivers. Could make it even faster than any new BMW out there if forced induction would be installed.
Honestly though, I recall you wanting to buy an ATS-V. I will say that Cadillac still has its own face compared to the newer cars being produced and probably is the only good looking car out there. They have improved tremendously since the 90s. I don't know about the handling of the car if it is any good, because many American cars still do not handle as good as Japanese or European cars and since electric steering is becoming a major thing now the whole feel of the car is completely lost.
I hear you on the Bangle BMW's, but thank God those are long gone. I am also fond of the style of the E39 M5 and E46 M3. I had an E46 M3 and still think it is the best looking BMW to date, but those cars are grossly outclassed in terms of braking, acceleration, handling, tuning capability, fit/finish, and quality of materials compared to their replacements. I am not hot on the new M5, but everyone keeps comparing the size and handling of the M2 to the E46 M3. I have yet to drive the M2, but the current M3 would absolutely annihilate my E46 M3. I thought the original M2 looked weird in pics, but it looks much better in person. The competition version looks pretty tough in person too. I know that's subjective.
The i-drive now works fine in the M3 and M2. Way different than those damn Bangle cars. The most annoying part of the new M3 is how many settings you need to change for steering, throttle, stability, suspension, etc with the buttons by the shifter. You really need the "M1" and "M2" buttons on the steering wheel to save your preferred settings or it would take 30 minutes every time you start the car to get them set properly.
The ATS-V looks decent, but the rounded lines of the current M3 make the ATS-V proportions look awkward. Inside the M3 looks like it should cost $100,000 more than the ATS-V. Don't get me wrong, I still like the ATS-V and the performance capability, but the styling, fit/finish, and materials of the M3 in person are in another world. Speaking of ride and handling, the ATS-V is pure magic with the magnetic shocks. It rides crazy smooth and better than the M3, while outperforming the handling of the M3 at the track. They are way ahead of the European and Japanese cars on that front.
I hear you on the Bangle BMW's, but thank God those are long gone. I am also fond of the style of the E39 M5 and E46 M3. I had an E46 M3 and still think it is the best looking BMW to date, but those cars are grossly outclassed in terms of braking, acceleration, handling, tuning capability, fit/finish, and quality of materials compared to their replacements. I am not hot on the new M5, but everyone keeps comparing the size and handling of the M2 to the E46 M3. I have yet to drive the M2, but the current M3 would absolutely annihilate my E46 M3. I thought the original M2 looked weird in pics, but it looks much better in person. The competition version looks pretty tough in person too. I know that's subjective.
The i-drive now works fine in the M3 and M2. Way different than those damn Bangle cars. The most annoying part of the new M3 is how many settings you need to change for steering, throttle, stability, suspension, etc with the buttons by the shifter. You really need the "M1" and "M2" buttons on the steering wheel to save your preferred settings or it would take 30 minutes every time you start the car to get them set properly.
The ATS-V looks decent, but the rounded lines of the current M3 make the ATS-V proportions look awkward. Inside the M3 looks like it should cost $100,000 more than the ATS-V. Don't get me wrong, I still like the ATS-V and the performance capability, but the styling, fit/finish, and materials of the M3 in person are in another world. Speaking of ride and handling, the ATS-V is pure magic with the magnetic shocks. It rides crazy smooth and better than the M3, while outperforming the handling of the M3 at the track. They are way ahead of the European and Japanese cars on that front.
Good to know we are both on the same page I remember how disappointed I was when the E60 first came out. I already knew the worse was yet to come like with the E90s, and the E65. I don't understand why the E90 generation is getting so much hype recently just because of the motor. I wouldn't want to be seen in that car regardless if the N54 is good or not.
You had one of the best BMWs ever made my man! I Are you talking about the straight out of the box stock form? If so, yes I would agree that newer cars would beat their older generation if both are stock. However with advancements in the aftermarket part realm I'd say you could modify an E46 M3 to the point that it could beat the newer M3 and even any new fast car. There are supercharger kits for the E46 M3 that can make it 600 hp, which have proven to beat the newer BMWs from my understanding when I read the bimmerforums. Huge divide between the members, since I know one of the sites doesn't allow anything after the E38/E39/E46 into the forums. I'd say the only thing you can do with new cars is just tune their computer right out of the box. However, I would also argue that there is little aftermarket support for the newer cars in general besides mere double digit gains and blow off valves. Newer Mercedes doesn't have anything since the cars just go to the junkyard after 5 years. Newer BMWs, nada, besides the m color grilles the posers put on and carbon fiber wraps around everything. I would argue older cars have a much much much larger aftermarket support than older cars. And having seem older cars that are modified and tuned properly decimating newer, heavier, cars with nannies on curvy race tracks is always a treat.
I still don't trust computers and don't need them to tell me how I need to drive. I remember how complicated those things were on the E60 M5 and the E64 M6. They have to go back with just the regular ultimate standing and no stupid "personalization" option like the newer Infinitis started putting in too. They just start up like computers now, and no wonder there are a lot less of the newer models than say the E46 models since the electronics fail a lot more in newer cars.
The hyrdaulic feeling of the E39/E46 is much better and rewarding than a crappy electric steering on the newer Bimmers. I actually looked up the M2 reviews when you mentioned the M2 and read about the steering feel and how many older fans complained that it sucked. I just think Chris Harris blew the M2 out of proportion honestly, the car couldn't compete with an E46 M3 regardless if it's more advanced. I would say, after driving the new 3 series not too long ago, the E39 and E46 feel a hell of a lot more solid compared to the new BMW models. The new ones feel so flexible and sort of, recyclable like a Hyundai or a Kia. I don't know how to describe it, but a lot like cheap build.
Reading this, you got me thinking about the E46. The sedan model is good too and I was wondering what would happen if there was an LS or 2JZ inside? Add more power, better brakes, and tune them well they would slaughter the new soft BMWs one by one. Would be a hell of a car. LS swapped E39 for me, that's if god forbid anything happens to the G.
Some real gate keeping going on...The E90/E92 is a great looking car and it's the only M3 to receive a V8. If you can't see the novelty in that - please take the blinders off. Letting nostalgia cloud judgement...You may have a preference but to say a new M3 or M2 is trash just because they aren't the E46 or some other 20+ yr. old BMW, is simply ignorant. The argument has been how great the older gens. were, with all their purity and lack of tech, but they'd smoke a new BMW...if you added different motors or new tech. Supercharging/turbo charging is introducing 'new tech' and making the original set-up more complicated; is it not?...Please tell me you see the hypocrisy in that statement.
Any older car can outperform a newer model if enough cash is thrown at it. The other side of that coin, that people who make the argument of throwing money at older cars seem to conveniently skip over, what if you put the same amount into the newer model? Let's add full bolt-ons and an E85 tune to the F80 (less than your Frankenstein build with those) ...You'd get your feelings hurt.
Nothing wrong with admiring the older gens but to put them on such a pedestal that you don't like any new autos ...you're missing out.
I wanted to say something like that too, Rob. But was weary at the prospect.
People too often confuse nostalgia for something that's somehow better than decades of design and tech evolution. Nothing wrong with nostalgia, though.
Good to know we are both on the same page I remember how disappointed I was when the E60 first came out. I already knew the worse was yet to come like with the E90s, and the E65. I don't understand why the E90 generation is getting so much hype recently just because of the motor. I wouldn't want to be seen in that car regardless if the N54 is good or not.
You had one of the best BMWs ever made my man! I Are you talking about the straight out of the box stock form? If so, yes I would agree that newer cars would beat their older generation if both are stock. However with advancements in the aftermarket part realm I'd say you could modify an E46 M3 to the point that it could beat the newer M3 and even any new fast car. There are supercharger kits for the E46 M3 that can make it 600 hp, which have proven to beat the newer BMWs from my understanding when I read the bimmerforums. Huge divide between the members, since I know one of the sites doesn't allow anything after the E38/E39/E46 into the forums. I'd say the only thing you can do with new cars is just tune their computer right out of the box. However, I would also argue that there is little aftermarket support for the newer cars in general besides mere double digit gains and blow off valves. Newer Mercedes doesn't have anything since the cars just go to the junkyard after 5 years. Newer BMWs, nada, besides the m color grilles the posers put on and carbon fiber wraps around everything. I would argue older cars have a much much much larger aftermarket support than older cars. And having seem older cars that are modified and tuned properly decimating newer, heavier, cars with nannies on curvy race tracks is always a treat.
I still don't trust computers and don't need them to tell me how I need to drive. I remember how complicated those things were on the E60 M5 and the E64 M6. They have to go back with just the regular ultimate standing and no stupid "personalization" option like the newer Infinitis started putting in too. They just start up like computers now, and no wonder there are a lot less of the newer models than say the E46 models since the electronics fail a lot more in newer cars.
The hyrdaulic feeling of the E39/E46 is much better and rewarding than a crappy electric steering on the newer Bimmers. I actually looked up the M2 reviews when you mentioned the M2 and read about the steering feel and how many older fans complained that it sucked. I just think Chris Harris blew the M2 out of proportion honestly, the car couldn't compete with an E46 M3 regardless if it's more advanced. I would say, after driving the new 3 series not too long ago, the E39 and E46 feel a hell of a lot more solid compared to the new BMW models. The new ones feel so flexible and sort of, recyclable like a Hyundai or a Kia. I don't know how to describe it, but a lot like cheap build.
Reading this, you got me thinking about the E46. The sedan model is good too and I was wondering what would happen if there was an LS or 2JZ inside? Add more power, better brakes, and tune them well they would slaughter the new soft BMWs one by one. Would be a hell of a car. LS swapped E39 for me, that's if god forbid anything happens to the G.
I get your point about a lot of the new cars being so digital and I really dislike the fact that most performance cars are turning to DSG transmissions to eek out an extra 0.10 or so on the 0-60 sprint, but I understand the idiotic, hard set in our ways bench racing bragging rights of 0-60 and horsepower and that probably has a lot to do with the development of a lot of modern car tech. In the real world the numbers often look a lot different. I am old school and would much rather shift my car, heel-and-toe downshift, and have more control over the handling. I know it takes an extra 0.10 to 60, but it also takes more skill and more involvement and is much more rewarding when you get it right. If we make the cars so simple to drive that anyone can be fast it removes the fun. I think we agree on all of that. I cheered when I read Car & Driver's review of the M2 Competition that the manual transmission was actually faster than the DCT.
But have you driven a new M3 or M2? I have yet to drive the M2 Competition, but I have driven the M3 and M3 Competition and they are easily 10 times better at everything than the E46 M3. The steering is great in the new M3. I get that you can add more modern technology to the E46 M3 like a supercharger to try to keep up with a bone stock new M3, but doesn't that go right in the face of what you just said about the older cars being better if you have to add new tech to them to keep up? As good as the E46 M3 was it was a flawed car. It can easily shear the rear subframe with stock power and with 500 hp it would decimate the chassis. The vanos system of that generation is garbage and who wants to waste the time adjusting their valve lash anymore? Not to mention the newest models left of the E46 are 14 years old now. There is no way you could upgrade an E46 M3 chassis to replicate the materials and construction processes used in a new M3 and that affects the steering, handling, ride, acceleration, braking, etc. The E46 M3 is still stunning to look at though and still sounds great. But so does the new M3 (see below). I agree, I don't like the look of the M2 as much, but the styling of the Competition model is growing on me.
Don't worry, not all hope is lost on a new car. The M2 Competition is supposed to be a simplistic anolog car in a digital world. This review by Motor1 conveys that pretty well: https://www.motor1.com/reviews/36367...tition-review/ Again, I have yet to drive an M2 Competition, but if it really is better than the new M3, then I think it will be a really good car. It just needs some more aggressive rims like on the M2 CS and front splitter or different front bumper cover similar to this one I saw at the BMW museum in Germany. (I could do without the ugly M stripes though.)
I wanted to say something like that too, Rob. But was weary at the prospect.
People too often confuse nostalgia for something that's somehow better than decades of design and tech evolution. Nothing wrong with nostalgia, though.
I hope I didn't come across like I was seeking a fight but I cannot stand when such a stance is taken where anything outside of one's preference is 'trash'. Personally, I'm not exactly a BMW fan but I think they are potent performers; if you have the means to keep them road worthy. I actually wouldn't mind owning a E90, I think they're going to be collection worthy one day and people rave about them as driver's cars. With the bearing issue taken car of, that drive train is actually pretty stout from what I've heard.
I agree with a lot with what was said in terms of the 'driver's' car and the feelings they evoke..but lets not kid ourselves and make pretend we can take our tax return and turn a 20 yr. old M3 into a Juggernaut that's going to slaughter anything that lines up against it.
The E90/E92 is a great looking car and it's the only M3 to receive a V8. If you can't see the novelty in that - please take the blinders off. Letting nostalgia cloud judgement.
Not nostalgia, just spreading the truth I already mentioned the engines in the E60 M5 was good even though it looked like something that came straight out of one's ***. Do you really like the E90 range that much? Let's compare the second generation Lexus IS and the newer third generation IS. The second generation is on a whole different league than the new IS, the new ones cannot compete with them. The ISF is still dominating, and holding its value a lot better than the new, presumably faster, heavier, IS series. I find the new BMWs ugly, but some people might like their designs I don't buy a car for the badge though, so I guess that's what separates the men (E38/E39/E46 and before) from the boys (New bimmer boys). Different opinions so to each his own. Just a comparison of the best gen (on the left) with the Korean gen (on the right).
Originally Posted by RMB5190
The argument has been how great the older gens. were, with all their purity and lack of tech, but they'd smoke a new BMW...if you added different motors or new tech. Supercharging/turbo charging is introducing 'new tech' and making the original set-up more complicated; is it not?...Please tell me you see the hypocrisy in that statement.
I already mentioned that the aftermarket realm for older cars is much more larger and has had large advancements compared to newer cars. I would not say that modifications to the older cars make them more complicated per se. Or are you primarily speaking about the aftermarket ECUs? Because in a lot of the 90s cars, you could still use the original computer while modifying them, at least for Nissan, Toyotas, GMs, and Opels. Look at the old Zs with the L28ET motors, modifications to the forced induction (these motors can handle 600 hp) new suspension and anti-roll bars in them, they run perfect and handle better than any new Nissan Z or G in stock form, maybe quicker than a Z or G in modified form (if we're talking about having the original engine). Hell even an L6 can be built to decimate any built VQ (how many built VQs have we seen handling so much power? Not much). Now, this is what I have been saying from the very beginning. Newer cars are harder to modify, harder to work on, and harder to make them better than what the engineers have done to it. That is what I am trying to say. Look at our G's engine for example. Really good motor in stock form. Modifications to it are really minimal, and super expensive, and the electronics in it are even more detrimental to someone who plans on doing anything to it since the car has a mind of its own. Now lets look at something old like 90s JDM Toyota Supras. There are thousands of parts to make it much more better than any new car that rolls of the line. Actually, you could make the older cars faster than any new modified car. That is the whole "built not bought" concept, as much as that sounds what a teenager who follows Hoonigan would say. Yes, old gens are better overall than new gens. New gens are good out of the box, modifications are limited besides maybe a thousand dollar chip. Many gens are also good out of the box as well E39, old GT350s, Skylines.
I'm glad I'm "missing out" on all the new cars. "I am so sad that I cannot go to the dealer repeatedly to have my overly new complicated car repaired, or to buy replacement parts that are super expensive. I am also sad that I cannot access the new cars aftermarket realm since I really want to buy from the small selection of parts like chips and overly priced mediocre kits that require so much tuning from overpriced mechanics." (This is sarcasm, but hope you get my point)
I mean, my 10 year old stock G37 (now being considered old gen) kept up a car length behind a brand new M3 with all the latest high tech gizmos on a race course that closely resembled the streets Maybe he wasn't trying? But those tire squeals I heard when he was shifting each gear in his little flappy paddle DCT as well as his exhaust screaming might prove otherwise. So I don't really understand how new gens are that much better overall. Out of the box yes, modified no. I mean, if a dude wants to turn in his man card for a new feminine car with EPS cause his hands will hurt from turning a wheel or wants better gas mileage, that's not my problem. It's their money after all and more of the older good cars for me are left.
Should I roll the clip of how two newly modified cars are getting smoke by a much much much older generation car? I believe Americans called them a "Rabbit" when first introduced?
I’m not quite sure why, but the A4 has never really popped up in this thread as a potential landing spot for G owners. Introduced in 2017 the B9 platform offered a 6MT for exactly one model year—2018. Exterior and interior dimensions are roughly the same, as is curb weight, and despite a 70+ more HP the Audi equals the G37 published acceleration times, as well as handling and braking being a virtual toss up.
I noticed a CPO pop up at my local Audi dealer, and it was equipped pretty much exactly how I would have spec’d it: Premium Plus trim, with the optional virtual cockpit (12.1” digital gauge cluster) and all the Audi Assistance goodies (blind spot monitoring, F/R parking sensors, automated braking etc), plus the Sport Package with the optional 19” wheels, and the,750 watt 19 speaker Bang & Olufsen sound system. A bit out of the norm for me, the car was pearl white with brown leather.
The interior was gorgeous. And I love the packaging of a RWD based chassis, with the F-R engine configuration and the transmission tunnel creating that low down cockpit like separation between driver and passenger. At night, ambient lighting is everywhere: the speaker grills, cup holders, door panels, footwells, transmission tunnel, etc. It’s a really cool look. And unlike my Golf R, the virtual cockpit isn’t neutered—Apple CarPlay can project to the instrument panel! As you’d suspect, the B&O system is sick. You can feel the sub in the footwells.
This particular car had the 7 speed dual clutch transmission. While I love my manuals, I could easily live with this. I’ve never experienced an “automatic” shift with such speed. Redline shifts are stunning quick with the chassis in Dynamic mode and the transmission in Sport. The paddles respond instantly, and downshifts are accompanied by throttle blips that match revs perfectly, even at high RPM. Unfortunately, it still automatically upshifts at redline, no matter what.
Paired to the 252 turbo 4, the car feels every bit of it’s 5.1 second 0-60 run. The car has factory launch control, but I've yet to try it. A stage 1 piggyback tune would put this car in a nice place.
The car handles pretty good, about on par with my G37S when it was stock, although there is less body roll. The OEM ExtremeContact DWS 06 UHP AS tires are the weakest link.
My wife loved it. And just like that, I have 2 German cars in my garage.
This is a huge upgrade over my wife’s ’17 Accord Touring with 40K. Being an CPO ’18, we have 44 months of remaining B2B warranty coverage with no mileage limit—which was important to us, as the wife drives 18-20K a year.
Since said wife can’t drive manual, we use her car for 90% of family duty. I’m certainly excited to be driving this instead of a FWD V6 powered Accord, although I’ll miss the sound, as the 3.5L motor sounded awesome. Must have been the VTEC lol.
Tint and some PPF work was last weekend, and a piggyback stage 1 tune is in the future.
For my fellow manual guys, it might be an option worth considering if you can find one. For those who prefer Automatics, I’d definitely check one out, especially if you lean more luxury that sport.
Anyway, pics:
Disagree on the A4. For a Quattro A4 money you can get a Charger R/T, which is faster (sounds better (cooler looking(and fairly luxurious)))
BETTER THAN AN A4 QUATTRO V8 5.7L sound never gets old. All the relevant features. Still a head turner with the HEMI badge on the fender.
11-06-2019, 07:37 PM
I remember how disappointed I was when the E60 first came out. I already knew the worse was yet to come like with the E90s, and the E65. I don't understand why the E90 generation is getting so much hype recently just because of the motor. I wouldn't want to be seen in that car regardless if the N54 is good or not.
...you're missing out.
I already mentioned the engines in the E60 M5 was good even though it looked like something that came straight out of one's ***. Do you really like the E90 range that much? Let's compare the second generation Lexus IS and the newer third generation IS. The second generation is on a whole different league than the new IS, the new ones cannot compete with them. The ISF is still dominating, and holding its value a lot better than the new, presumably faster, heavier, IS series. I find the new BMWs ugly, but some people might like their designs 
I don't buy a car for the badge though, so I guess that's what separates the men (E38/E39/E46 and before) from the boys (New bimmer boys). Different opinions so to each his own. Just a comparison of the best gen (on the left) with the Korean gen (on the right).
