00Max00

Nah..wrong...

BUY when you plan to keep for a long time. LEASE if you always wanted the shiniest toy on the street.

Sound advice for real financial planning? - Fixing an older car is always cheaper than new car payments.

RISKY GUY

iTrader: (9)

But with the new car payment comes the piece of mind.
The money either goes to the bank or the mechanic.
Paying the bank has a point to it vs the mechanic is a waste of $.
Got rid of my coupe, the trans was going. Had no interst in repairing that headache.
Sometimes you got to cut your losses & move on.

Rochester

iTrader: (9)

Sorry I brought this up, Ash.

Tell us more about your new BMW, like your personal assessment on the driving differences between that and your G. Particularly since your memory of the G is so fresh, and you've demonstrated a particular talent for recognizing nuance. Dish it up, man.

visualguy

I say buy where the climate is moderate and cars hold up (like CA), and lease everywhere else.

Seriously, it really is just a matter of how long you want to keep your cars... Well, unless you get a tax break on leasing.

I don't get rid of my old cars even after I buy my new ones. I still have two 1999 Nissan Maxima SE that I refuse to get rid of because they're still useful and cost me little to keep, although repair bills did creep up after they passed 10 years - from pretty much zero (other than normal maintenance) to an average of maybe $1,000 a year for each car replacing things like sensors, starters, A/C compressors. I don't think I would keep my Audi S5 (or even Infiniti G37) beyond 10 years, but they should be ok for 10 years, especially with the low mileage that I put on my cars.

ashmostro

iTrader: (3)

True on both points, Rochester. Since my pattern even when purchasing ended up being ownership for 3 or 4 years before I got bored and wanted something different, I decided to consider leasing. My secondary motivation is to have predictable cash outflow, as this means the vehicles are always under warranty. I purchase mods when I am in a position to, so this doesn't factor into the predictability question (plus I'd mod a financed/purchased car anyway).


I don't agree with the severity of your statement, because you have to take into consideration the behavior of the buyer. As I said, if you're going to retain the asset for a short period of time, the financial impact is the same (assuming a favorable residual value and Money Factor, both of which you know up front, and one you get to negotiate). In fact, the convenience is higher with leasing since you don't have to find a buyer to offload the asset and you don't have to worry about unexpected changes in value since that's preset.

This I agree with, and is the essence of my position. What I have a problem with is the blanket statement that "leasing is a bad financial decision." No, it's the decision to retain a fast-depreciating asset for a very short period of time that's the bad decision, and I can do that just as easily by purchasing! The "smart" money is to buy a two year old used car, which I'm not against if I know I want to keep the vehicle for a long, long time and it's known to be reliable... which BMW's are not.

At any rate, don't worry about bringing it up (referring your later post ), because you know me- I have no issues with discussions and differing points of view made in a mature manner!

I'll answer the other questions on a separate post.

ashmostro

iTrader: (3)

Sure thing!

While it hasn't been long enough to really capture all of the nuances you so aptly indicate I normally would, I do have some thoughts worth mentioning-

What the 335is has over my 2010 G37s sedan:
- The power is intense, no way around that. Some lag but the boost does build faster than my old 300ZXtt did, even at 18 psi. The sound of an inline six with two turbos at full sail is utterly intoxicating. Add to that the ignition cut between the DCT shifts in sport mode and it sounds like a baby F1 car. Whenever I go through tunnels I find myself gratuitously changing gears under boost.
- The leather quality is miles above the G. To be fair, mine has the Dakota leather and not the leatherette so it is in a different category. But still.
- The DCT transmission is nearly perfect. The only time it's a bit rough is when cold, but hey, it's got clutches. The 7AT in the G is really a badly-programmed tranny, and that has only become more obvious to me now.
- The seats are more comfortable and I like the smaller confines of the cockpit, but that's personal preference. I like how cozy and purposeful I feel in the 'is.
- The Nav is pretty good. Not perfect, but in some ways I like it more than the G's. It's definitely faster to respond to inputs.
- Bluetooth phone integration is way better, particularly the way the car interfaces with the addressbook seamlessly.
- The paint is way better- doesn't swirl as easily (my dad used to have a black 550i which is why I feel confident saying that)


Things the G does better:
- Steering effort at low speeds is almost too heavy on the 335is. At speed it's perfect, though. The feel is about the same, but I haven't pushed it yet. The G's steering is really the best I've ever experienced in a sedan.
- The G's brakes feel *so* much better, which is a subjective statement I know. Objectively, the pedal is firmer, the travel is less before engagement, and the feedback through the pedal is better. Whether the Akebonos are really designed for high heat is another question entirely (hint: they aren't).
- Oddly, the heavier G feels more nimble in transitions. I think the sway bars contributed to this so it's not a fair comparison until I do something similar to the BMW.
- Being a non-M model, the 335's bushings are way too soft (softer even than the G). This results in a slight lateral shiftiness in the chassis over irregular surfaces, which could be compounded by the crappy Bridgestone RE050A's it came with. The G felt more stable under dynamic inputs.
- I can still see the entire gauge cluster in the G after I set my seating position where I want to. On the BMW the tops of the main gauges is clipped and I have to shrug down to read them.
- The G has smarter cabin storage options for small items like sunglasses, phones, wallets, etc.
- The G comes with a backup camera (at least mine did) and an RF proximity key (all of them)... for the price of the BMW, both should be standard. That's just stupid. Thankfully I can add on a well-integrated backup camera, but not so with the ComfortAccess radio key.

As you can see, I still rate the G very highly, but the fact really is, I smile more when I drive the 335, and that's what I want out of a car- escape from what can be a rather intense job. My drive home becomes a pleasant journey even with the crappy DC traffic, so I guess that says something.

Shiny side up!

visualguy

If you keep for a very long time, then you're better off buying new in my opinion. Basically, the reasonably frugal thing to do is buy a reliable new car, and stay away from the first couple of years of a new model to avoid the inevitable bugs. Then keep it until either a big problem pops up, or too many small problems show up. This typically doesn't happen before 10 years or 100K miles (whichever comes first).

Rochester

iTrader: (9)

Excellent post, Ash! More than I was expecting. Well done.

No backup sensors or camera in the 335i? That is weird for that class of car.

Actually, I'm in a position to take that one better. I found my car used, but less than a year old and less than 4000 miles on the clock. A massive chunk of depreciation was knocked right off the top for what was essentially a brand new car. Of course, I also was trolling AutoTrader daily, often, and for months.

So Ash is somewhat right, the smartest money is to buy a barely used car, then own it until the depreciation curve flattens out, which can take 6 to 8 years.

visualguy

Pretty similar with the S5 compared to the G37... The abundant torque at low RPMs makes a huge difference in the driving experience - it's really fun! That alone is worth the upgrade in my opinion.

I also find that I prefer the steering on the G37, but it's not a big issue.

Rochester

iTrader: (9)

That's a neat observation right there. I mean, we all know that the power and performance between your new car and your old one are essentially the same, with the 335 edging out a tenth or two, depending on the driver mod. And yet the *experience* in the BMW is more exciting at WOT than the Infiniti is.

It feels faster, even though the numbers are close enough so as not to matter.

That's pretty cool. The car has a built-in, butt-dyno manipulator.

g37guy01

Actually I've seen videos where the 335 goes from o to 60 in 4.8, with a little pre-launch assist. That's not just a "little" faster. On the other hand, I save a video where at 5,000 feet the G37 was slower than a Volvo and Audi.

00Max00

I remember that video. I actually have a youtube link.

Those guys are moronic pseudo professional. How many of you drive cars ONE mile above see level? And then proceed to compare a NA engine against Turbo charged, and we all know coupe is slower than the sedan. They somehow managed to produce some 7.13 s 0-60 for the coupe, so scientific. Great job!!

Rochester

iTrader: (9)

I'm not playing with Ash, I genuinely think that the way a car feels is far more important than numbers. Pretty sure that's a point of view from millions of Miata and BRZ owners, LOL. I also tend to think about 1/4 mile numbers > 0-to-60. Don't know why, maybe it's old school.

Anyway, turbos and superchargers are a rush to drive, in most any car. Last 3-series I drove was 6 years ago, so I truly can't do a comparison like the OP can.

BLamb

iTrader: (1)

It's the torque in the 335 that makes it feel so much quicker, I drove a few 335i's before getting my G. I also test drove a 335d, now that was a fun car to drive 425 ft/lbs at 1750 rpm.

I also had a Toyota Tundra with about 420lb ft of torque (some mods on it) before the G. Even though it was massive and is actually slower (~6 sec 0-60) it was more fun to go WOT. It just gets up and goes much quicker, plus v8's always sound great.

kanariya

The torque does make so much of a difference.

Even with my 328i, if I put it to sport mode. The torque is almost instant.
It responses quick and nimble. When driving in sport mode, I don't feel the 328 is a downgrade at all compared to the G37.
Well, except for the engine note. But in exchange, I get way better MPG.