2014 Sedan
01-23-2013, 01:50 PM
#1246
Agreed...
The way I see it, their new president keeps talking about their glorious distant future because the present and near future don't look so good.
Nissan would need to invest a lot more resources in R&D for Infiniti models than they have been willing to so far, including engines (hint: FI) and transmissions (hint: something in the league of ZF or Getrag). We'll see if that happens - I hope it does.
The way I see it, their new president keeps talking about their glorious distant future because the present and near future don't look so good.
Nissan would need to invest a lot more resources in R&D for Infiniti models than they have been willing to so far, including engines (hint: FI) and transmissions (hint: something in the league of ZF or Getrag). We'll see if that happens - I hope it does.
01-23-2013, 02:29 PM
#1247
^^ Indeed. There has to be a reason that Infiniti doesn't talk much about the new car and give it proper marketing budget as we now know it is the same car under the new sheet metal. I don't have high hope that it would perform better than the current G37. As a bigger car, it might even be worse like what BMW did to F30.
01-23-2013, 03:03 PM
#1249
Then it seems that you and I see things completely differently. I see exactly where JdN is trying to take the company (at least I think I do) and it's not at all unclear or confusing to me. How you can possibly think of the new Q50 as a "quick fix" is baffling to me. Now I'm confused. The nomenclature change is a clear sign of change and breaking from the way things have been done previously. It is completely inconsequential to building great cars - a great car is great no matter what it's called. It is symbolic of the new CEO's intention to do things differently than they have been done prior. To show that he is taking the brand in a different direction from the course they were on.
How they can be "all over the place" after one new model is also something I don't understand. One new car has been released in this new era. One. In fact it hasn't even actually been released yet, just revealed. And what we know so far is that it has a ton of new technology, greater focus on luxury and fuel economy while maintaining and improving performance. The partnership with Red Bull Racing as title sponsor of the Formula 1 team is a huge deal that I don't think many people here understand the strategic significance of. How many people on this forum or in Infiniti's North American market faithfully follow or even care about F1? Probably not a large percentage. But you know who does? The entire rest of the world. Europe. Asia. Latin America. Infiniti used to be a luxury division of Nissan that was strictly a US brand. They are now launching the brand internationally. That is huge. China is a huge emerging consumer market for automobiles. When it was first reported that Infiniti had plans for production facilities in China myopic people on this forum wined that they don't want a car built in China. Who the hell ever said they are building them for us? That doesn't even begin to make sense economically. But there's a billion Chinese people and another billion throughout other parts of Asia that would be just fine with it. It's not just about a few hundred guys in the US on this forum who want more HP (on paper since most only race their cars except stop light to stop light). It's about designing cars that will appeal to millions of new consumers who have money to buy them now. de Nysschen clearly stated that his vision isn't about producing as many new models as quickly as possible but where he sees the company being 15 years down the road. That involves research and development (all the new tech), new marketing (name change, new markets), and providing what most luxury car customers want to spend their money on (reliable, fuel efficient cars that have the latest and greatest stuff and sufficient power). He's not running a hot rod shop. There will be models with high performance at some point, but the plan isn't to try to rush them out quickly to satisfy a handful of impatient consumers. It's to develop something that will be outstanding. Which takes time, vision, and a coordinated plan.
At least that's my understanding of it.
How they can be "all over the place" after one new model is also something I don't understand. One new car has been released in this new era. One. In fact it hasn't even actually been released yet, just revealed. And what we know so far is that it has a ton of new technology, greater focus on luxury and fuel economy while maintaining and improving performance. The partnership with Red Bull Racing as title sponsor of the Formula 1 team is a huge deal that I don't think many people here understand the strategic significance of. How many people on this forum or in Infiniti's North American market faithfully follow or even care about F1? Probably not a large percentage. But you know who does? The entire rest of the world. Europe. Asia. Latin America. Infiniti used to be a luxury division of Nissan that was strictly a US brand. They are now launching the brand internationally. That is huge. China is a huge emerging consumer market for automobiles. When it was first reported that Infiniti had plans for production facilities in China myopic people on this forum wined that they don't want a car built in China. Who the hell ever said they are building them for us? That doesn't even begin to make sense economically. But there's a billion Chinese people and another billion throughout other parts of Asia that would be just fine with it. It's not just about a few hundred guys in the US on this forum who want more HP (on paper since most only race their cars except stop light to stop light). It's about designing cars that will appeal to millions of new consumers who have money to buy them now. de Nysschen clearly stated that his vision isn't about producing as many new models as quickly as possible but where he sees the company being 15 years down the road. That involves research and development (all the new tech), new marketing (name change, new markets), and providing what most luxury car customers want to spend their money on (reliable, fuel efficient cars that have the latest and greatest stuff and sufficient power). He's not running a hot rod shop. There will be models with high performance at some point, but the plan isn't to try to rush them out quickly to satisfy a handful of impatient consumers. It's to develop something that will be outstanding. Which takes time, vision, and a coordinated plan.
At least that's my understanding of it.
Due to all the misinformation, we really need to sticky or start a NEW thread that summarizes all the correct info concerning the new Q and future models. Thoughts?
01-23-2013, 03:18 PM
#1250
It's a long read but the info is all here or linked from this thread. Why should there be a new thread for those too lazy to read through this one, sort fact from fiction, wade through positive and negative opinions, and decide for themselves how they feel about the Q50? This thread has a ton of info and opinions. There is very possibly more information (and misinformation) packed into this one thread about the Q50 than anywhere else on the net. If anyone is too lazy to read it all or skim through it to find what they want, screw 'em. Besides, won't it be interesting to look back at this thread in hindsight in a year or so and see what was right, what was wrong, and who's eating their words?
Misinterpretation, intelligent (and sometimes not so intelligent) debate, differing view point, and outright absurdity are what makes the world go round. Or at least this forum.
Misinterpretation, intelligent (and sometimes not so intelligent) debate, differing view point, and outright absurdity are what makes the world go round. Or at least this forum.
01-23-2013, 03:21 PM
#1251
Registered User
Well said bb, perfect way to break it down. I completely agree, people aren't looking at it from the perspective of it being a business and there has to be sensible plans for the future and that there are a whole lot of other markets than just the US market.
01-23-2013, 03:28 PM
#1252
Everyone has an opinion of how a corporation should be run and what they "should be doing". We all do. But often it's simply from the viewpoint of what we individually want, not what's actually good for that company, what's feasible or even possible, or what will be profitable for that business in the long run. Everyone has thoughts on it. But not everyone's thoughts are good or even makes sense, that's why most of us work for someone else and aren't CEO's.
01-23-2013, 03:33 PM
#1253
It may be the right business decision for them, especially since they are behind the Germans on enthusiast cars. Anyway, things may change again in a few years when they make more money (in China, etc.), and can afford the R&D for re-entering the enthusiast market.
01-23-2013, 04:00 PM
#1254
I actually started to wonder if some of the numbers being tossed around are true because frankly they often sound made up. Whether sales are increasing or decreasing, percentage of coupes sold to sedans, etc. So I looked it up and found this:
Infiniti 2012 Sales compared to 2011
Jan -8.2%
Feb +1%
Mar -9.8%
Apr +5.4%
May +65.8%
Jun +66.1%
Jul +56.8%
Aug +23.6%
Sep +11.4%
Oct +27.6%
Nov +41.2%
Dec +21.8%
Source: Sales Reports - Releases - Infiniti Online Newsroom
Obviously the people fed up with the antiquated power train and lack of speedy development of new models are in the distinct minority. G sedans are by far the best seller and outsell G coupes 3 to 1 for 2012. It makes perfect business sense as to why the Sedan is getting the overhaul before the coupe.
For anybody who has posted a percentage of G's with manual transmissions vs automatics, please direct me to where you found that information. I'd really like to know.
Infiniti 2012 Sales compared to 2011
Jan -8.2%
Feb +1%
Mar -9.8%
Apr +5.4%
May +65.8%
Jun +66.1%
Jul +56.8%
Aug +23.6%
Sep +11.4%
Oct +27.6%
Nov +41.2%
Dec +21.8%
Source: Sales Reports - Releases - Infiniti Online Newsroom
Obviously the people fed up with the antiquated power train and lack of speedy development of new models are in the distinct minority. G sedans are by far the best seller and outsell G coupes 3 to 1 for 2012. It makes perfect business sense as to why the Sedan is getting the overhaul before the coupe.
For anybody who has posted a percentage of G's with manual transmissions vs automatics, please direct me to where you found that information. I'd really like to know.
01-23-2013, 04:10 PM
#1255
Sure, but if what they want to do is focus more on the Chinese market as well as luxury and SUVs, while focusing less on the US enthusiast market, then that naturally disappoints many folks on this forum...
It may be the right business decision for them, especially since they are behind the Germans on enthusiast cars. Anyway, things may change again in a few years when they make more money (in China, etc.), and can afford the R&D for re-entering the enthusiast market.
It may be the right business decision for them, especially since they are behind the Germans on enthusiast cars. Anyway, things may change again in a few years when they make more money (in China, etc.), and can afford the R&D for re-entering the enthusiast market.
I don't think they have ever been competing with the Germans until now. They never sold cars in Europe until now. I do think that the new direction will head there on some level but not overnight.
I know it's disappointing to some of the US owners but only a tiny minority of them. Those who expected differently should be used to disappointment by now because it never has happened before. Maybe it will in the future? I hope so. But if I want a tuner car I'll buy a car that has an aftermarket presence, not one that never has and expect to to start just because I bought it.
01-23-2013, 04:15 PM
#1256
I really like the idea of the 3.5L hybrid AWD. Many other hybrids are not AWD cars and I think this can take sales away from other companies who dont offer this configuration. 3 series hybrid is only RWD. ES hybrid is FWD, GS hybrid is RWD. The A4 e-quattro hybrid is rumored to be coming in 2014.
Im planning on getting a sedan this year as Ive grown tired of the coupe's back seat. I was leaning towards the CLA AMG or the S3 when they come out later this year as options. I nixxed the IS350 AWD because I dont like the styling at all. A Q50 AWD hybrid intrigues me..... more room in the back seat, AWD, better gas mileage, and still has good performance.
Ive been trying to do some digging into this drivetrain but havent come up with any technical specs. Anyone have any info? RWD biased? 50/50 torque split with snow button? electronic or mechanical diff?
Im planning on getting a sedan this year as Ive grown tired of the coupe's back seat. I was leaning towards the CLA AMG or the S3 when they come out later this year as options. I nixxed the IS350 AWD because I dont like the styling at all. A Q50 AWD hybrid intrigues me..... more room in the back seat, AWD, better gas mileage, and still has good performance.
Ive been trying to do some digging into this drivetrain but havent come up with any technical specs. Anyone have any info? RWD biased? 50/50 torque split with snow button? electronic or mechanical diff?
01-23-2013, 04:46 PM
#1257
I also consider cars like the 335i and the S4 to be enthusiast cars.
When the Germans went FI and DCT (or ZF 8-speed), they distanced themselves from the G quite a bit. I was hoping that Infiniti was finally going to close that gap with the Q50, but that isn't the direction that they chose. On the contrary, they even killed the 6MT. Maybe someday...
01-23-2013, 06:30 PM
#1258
Registered User
^^ Indeed. There has to be a reason that Infiniti doesn't talk much about the new car and give it proper marketing budget as we now know it is the same car under the new sheet metal. I don't have high hope that it would perform better than the current G37. As a bigger car, it might even be worse like what BMW did to F30.
If the Q50 performs that same as my current G37 with upgraded features at a proportionate price, I would think a majority of people would think that is a win.
01-23-2013, 07:33 PM
#1259
Marketing is a lot more than just advertising, it launches before the actual product is available, or even when it is still under development, it is essential to a product's success. Debut in an auto show is part of it. Good marketing can make a so-so product sounds great, a good product to be a must have. How apple marketed their i stuff were classic examples for case studies. Jobs once said to build products that people didn't even know they need. So, marketing is part of brainwashing the consumers and make them believe. The new IS is an ugly car IMO, but looks like got much better marketing budget than the Q50, it may even sell better if Infiniti failed to catch up their hype. But sadly, the only thing truly worth attention on the new Q at present is its hybrid powertrain.
01-23-2013, 08:47 PM
#1260
Registered User
Marketing is a lot more than just advertising, it launches before the actual product is available, or even when it is still under development, it is essential to a product's success. Debut in an auto show is part of it. Good marketing can make a so-so product sounds great, a good product to be a must have. How apple marketed their i stuff were classic examples for case studies. Jobs once said to build products that people didn't even know they need. So, marketing is part of brainwashing the consumers and make them believe. The new IS is an ugly car IMO, but looks like got much better marketing budget than the Q50, it may even sell better if Infiniti failed to catch up their hype. But sadly, the only thing truly worth attention on the new Q at present is its hybrid powertrain.
I don't have an iphone and don't want an iphone. But I do want a Q50.
"The new IS is an ugly car IMO, but looks like got much better marketing budget than the Q50"
For their better marketing budget I'm still unclear as to what is upgraded from the outgoing model aside from the sheet metal. Somehow Lexus failed to reach me.
"But sadly, the only thing truly worth attention on the new Q at present is its hybrid powertrain"
Seems to me that is huge as well as the updated exterior/interior and features. If you were expecting 2 more engine choices, manual or DCT like transmission, m3/m5 killer I think your expectations were mis-placed. (under promise/under deliver?)
Under promise and over deliver is what BMW does, which is what Infiniti has been doing. If your company over promises and under delivers your company winds up like Pontiac or has car with sales like the TL.