MSCA

iTrader: (3)

First of all, you can leave your condescending attitude at the door because you're not nearly as intelligent as you think and certainly not enough to talk down to me. Perhaps it is you who needs to work on his reading comprehension. Read my words again and you'll see that I reiterated your own words by saying that an M3 owner would be hurt by the 335i and the 335i owner would be hurt by the 328. Nowhere did I claim that you said the manufacturer/dealer would be hurt. Sorry, but that's YOUR fail. Nice way to start a post, genius.

Sorry, but that's not reality for most people....maybe it works that way in your warped world, but not in the real world. Maybe you can't comprehend this, so I'll say if for you as clearly as humanly possible: Not everybody has the means to purchase car A. So for those people, well, they are simply not in the market for car A because the price is beyond what they are able (or even sometimes willing) to spend. Now that car A- comes along, they are in fact in the market due to a lower price. Guess what? There was no loss in sales for car A (because the buyer wasn't in the market for car A), but of course now there is a buyer for car A-. Win-win for everyone and no net negative effect at all. See, in your warped world you're suggesting that most M3 buyers will elect to save money and just buy the 335i instead. In the real world, most people in the market for an M3 wouldn't give a 335i a second look, even with a significant cost savings.

Again you fail to consider real world implications in your silly little scenario. Even if you were correct, the fact remains that there are other cars available in the same class as similar prices. So those imaginary buyers do in fact have the option to purchase other cars besides some form of the 3-series. How can someone who thinks he's so bright overlook that simple and relevant fact? Sorry, but it throws your whole theory right into the toilet. Good try though...

I understood exactly what you said. Unfortunately, you still seem to turn a blind eye to the fact that there are plenty of used G37s on dealers lots that are at a price point that basically makes them affordable to plenty of teenagers. Sorry, but you can't dispute that fact. So again, your theory is in the toilet.

Yeah, you're a legend in your own mind. The ironic thing here is that you're basically the only one who supports your position and several others have posted reasons why you're incorrect. But keep on thinking that you know it all and everyone else is an idiot. And just for the record, you're not still right.

LOL, good luck with your GM. Let me know how you make out selling your 2010 Infiniti.

financeman

If someone is worried about resale...lease the car and lock in a residual (especially if the residual is especially high like it is on the G). Let Infiniti take the risk. Candidly there is a far greater threat to resale from other uncontrollable factors such as an accident (diminished value) or from unforeseen skyrocketing fuel prices ($6 gas would hurt the value of a gas hog like the G).

Although the marketing issue is actually quite complex, Infiniti is obviously looking at vertical product line expansion within the G series to capture additional sales while bolstering incremental net profits. A very smart move in my opinion assuming the margins on the decontented model (G25) are somewhat comparable to the other models. Its also a decision that is reversable....when new model Gs arrive in 2012 or 2013.

Vasher

Oh really, I'm quite sure I recall you saying something to the contrary. Since you have such a short memory (genius), let me give you a refresher...

Ugh, it's gotten so bad with you that you don't even know what you are saying. We're getting nowhere fast.

^You could have saved yourself this ramble had you read/understood this simple sentence that I purposely included in my last post. Here it is again, but the fact that I have to respond to this means you won't get it anyway (again)...


Nope, again you fail to understand the big picture. Funny, my quote from above covered this also. Nice try...

You must be a little slower than I thought. Yes, there are used 37's in the mid 20's ($K). Affordable to most teens? No. Affordable to the general public, yes (to some). Compound that with the availability of used G25's in a couple years. 25's that will be in the high teens ($K), bridging the price gap from "somewhat affordable" (in respect to 2 year old 37's w/ similar miles, obviously there will be high mileage/older 37's available as well) to "relatively cheap".


Thanks. I hadn't thought of myself as such, but I'll except the compliment. Also, no, I'm sure others see my point and at least one other has voiced it (typed).

You've dragged this out too long. So I'll sum it up in a nutshell..

Infiniti will sell a higher number of G's annually and the 37 sedan will take a small hit on the resale market due to the introduction of the 25 sedan.

I'm not going to jump the gun. If there isn't a 25 coupe, I'll hold on to the G. Also, I'll be sure to unload it before the release of the 25 coupe to avoid taking an additional "hit".


Now can we agree to disagree? (Since my last cheers wasn't enough, here's another cold one)

MSCA

iTrader: (3)

Read my words again and tell me how I said (or even implied) that the manufacturer/dealer would be hurt. Are your reading comprehension skills really that poor? Don’t make inferences and then try to tell me what I said when you’re clearly wrong (again).

I can assure you that I know what I’m saying. The problem we’re having here is your failure to understand or comprehend basic English.

Okay, great. So instead of coming up with an actual response, you just discount everything by claiming that I can’t understand possibly understand. Good job, genius. You’re very transparent.

Where do you live that teens can’t afford mid-$20K cars? Around here, I see teens driving cars as expensive or more expensive than that all the time. Don’t look now, but the G37 isn’t exactly an exclusive car or a status symbol of any sort. I think it might be to your benefit to get out of your trailer park and see how the rest of the world is living.

First of all, that wasn’t a compliment (refer to the “in your own mind” part). Secondly, it’s “accept”, not “except”. Finally, judging by the number of PMs I’ve received about your actions in this thread, I think it’s safe to say that the vast majority of members disagree with you. Hold on to that one supporter though…
Of course Infiniti will sell a higher number of G’s annually. That’s because they will bring in new buyers who would have otherwise been priced out of the segment. That’s not rocket science and you haven’t made any big revelation.
Ironically, the “small hit” you’re talking about will be insignificant compared to the hit you’d take trying to dump a 2010 G37. Depreciation is a bitch, especially for someone who buys a new car and then sells it a year or two later.

I think the odds are good that we will see a G25 coupe. So start making plans now to dump your G37 and buy that CTS. In the meantime, hope and pray that GM doesn’t come out with a less expensive version of the CTS with a smaller engine. Oh, wait just a second…..they already do! The have a 3.0L version and the 3.6L version. Oh well, looks like you’re right back in the same boat again!

xlack

iTrader: (3)

whats the big deal? lexus has IS250 and IS350 and you still see more IS250 on the road. That's common sense.

MSCA

iTrader: (3)

Exactly. And yet we don't see a bunch of IS350 owners who are butt-hurt over their resale values.

cvroom

agreed. my wife loves this cars exterior/interior/ride and the fact thats its an infiniti. she could care less about whats under the hood.

Vasher

Oh my god, I swear this is getting painful to read.

This is what you said.

So I responded and pointed out this...

This clearly implies that your take on my argument is that dealerships/manufacturers are hurting themselves by offering various "trims". I never said that, but you've been basing your entire argument on fractional statements and/or incorrect assumptions. Evident in the quotes above.


No, I don't think you do. (See all of the above)

You can't be serious. Coming up with a response would be ridiculous (regarding what you're referencing). Again, I can't believe that I have to explain this...

Ok, you said;

In response to...

Now going back to this...

Like I said, responding to that would be foolish. I'm not trying to explain the "Butterfly Effect" the G25 will have on the universe, which is why I said "I know that the numbers don't play out with such simplicity...". However, that in no way invalidates my example.

Ugh, I said most teens. There you go again, arguing against absolutely nothing. We are talking about the general public here, not my neighbors. I live in an affluent neighborhood, so there are a good number of teens driving nice cars. I have my city stated in my "profile" (Porter Ranch, CA), no trailer parks around here. Where do you live?

It was a joke, one that went over your head apparently. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

Thanks for catching that "typo". At least you got one thing right.

Oh, and you should print all those PM's. You can use them later as "evidence".


Now you've hit rock bottom. I didn't state that as a "revelation". It was intended to sum up the obvious within a simple statement, muting this entire argument. You missed that too.

However, since you've expressed that you agree, you've acknowledged that I'm correct. I'm glad we can finally "squash" this.

No, just no. Once again, you've failed to read/understand a G*d damn thing I've said. I've already stated that I'm far less concerned over losing a few grand in resale as I am the G becoming "commonplace". So as hard as you're attempting to "burn" me...

One more thing, after all the bs you're spouting about the 37 not losing something on the resale market due to the 25, you come right out and acknowledge the "small hit" I mentioned in reference to that. Go figure...


I knew there would be a gem in this turd.

You see, you're looking at the screen, but all these strange symbols must be confusing the heck out of your little mind. I've already gone over this, several times. The CTS, 328, A4/A5, TL, C300, etc. (do I have to name them all?) all have a base price ABOVE what the G25 will start at.

You must be oblivious to the "exclusivity" created by cost. $45k autos have some, because those who can't afford it are excluded. Same goes for $25k autos, $80k autos, $150k autos...

No kidding dude. Yes, the cheaper model will outsell it's premiums. The G25 will be "everywhere" also. That is what would bug me

Who said anyone is complaining? It comes with the territory. Pay to play.

Anyhow, you should do this until you get the blood flowing.

Or maybe next time you can use your "phone a friend".

Have a nice day.

MSCA

iTrader: (3)

No, actually it doesn't. But if that what you want to think, then go right ahead. I can see that I'm beating a dead horse here. You just won't get it no matter how many times I correct you. I do find it funny how you think that you know what my words mean more than I do. I'll leave it at that.

Your example is invalidated from the very beginning just due to the fact that you're speaking in hypotheticals without any basis of reality. Just because you think that's how the world works doesn't mean you're correct. I think your ego is too big to even allow you to see through crap you're spewing.

Yeah, I said most teens too. Did you somehow miss that?

So if you live in an affluent neighborhood, I'm sure that you'd agree that an Infiniti G37 isn't anything special and is probably an "average" car in your area. That said, why all the fuss about teens bringing down your resale value? Again, you're a big drama queen acting like you need to dump your G37 as soon as the G25 coupe hits the streets. Save your drama for someone that cares....LOL

Yeah, it must've gone right over my head. LOL, sure bud. Keep telling yourself that.

Typo? It’s funny that you don’t know the difference between a typo and the misuse of a word. Here’s a little lesson for you: Typo is short for “typographical error” and is indicative of a slip of the hand or finger, but excludes errors of ignorance or misuse of words. Mixing up “except” and “accept” isn’t a typo. Good try though, genius. You’re now batting 0.125.

If I printed them, they wouldn't be private anymore, now would they? Sorry, but I'll keep my private messages to myself. I probably never should have mentioned it to you in the first place. I did get a kick out of some of them though...

LOL, I've never disagreed with that particular statement. In fact, I've supported it all along. It's logical to think that the G25 will bring in more sales....there you go again with your reading comprehension difficulties.

Then why all the drama? Again, your argument has been poor resale just as much as your silly "commonplace" statement. As others have already pointed out ad nauseam, you picked the wrong car if you want exclusivity.

Yeah, the whole $100 less your car will likely be worth. Your idea of small and my idea of small are completely different. So if you find that to be an acknowledgment, terrific. You're not the sharpest tool in the shed.


You used BMW as an example on several occassions. The M3 is a $70K car....and "lesser" 3-series vehicles can be had for around $40K. So using your own example against you, how do you figure that's any different than the cars you posted above? You must be a glutton for punishment or something...

It’s been fun beating up on you, but then again you’re basically a mental midget, so it hasn’t been as much fun as it would have been otherwise… Next time you feel like matching wits with somebody, pick someone in your own class because you’re in way over your head right now.

I think this thread has run its course. I’ll be happy to leave the last word to you….no more replies to your lame drivel from me. I'm done. Have fun!

blindman8858

If there are more g25s on the road than the g37 at some point it only means that the g37 is more expensive and less affordable, which it is. Fewer g37s on the road make it a scarce resource and hence higher in value. I dont understand the logic of some people here. The demand for g25s might be higher because of their lower price point but that is independent of the g37.

Vasher

It blows my mind that you guys don't see the negative effect this could have on the Infiniti brand and the 37. Sure, they'll sell more cars overall, but as I stated before, they may be moving away from their aspirations of being a formidable "luxury brand".

I know I'm not crazy, so I did a quick search and found that there are quite a few people who share my views.

2011 Infiniti G25 Sedan First Look - Motor Trend


DJDub**(08/13/10 11:35 AM)
This should prove to be a good move by Infiniti, although it kind of irks me that you will see alot more Gs on the road, most of which will probably be these cheaper ones.


valdaviper1**(08/13/10 11:40 AM)
this car makes perfect sense..I see a whole lot more IS250's than IS350's, but I hope they don't do the same for the coupe..


true_enthusiast**(08/13/10 01:50 PM)
...their should NOT be an Infiniti product below the $30k mark if they wish to keep the brand as a "luxury" marquee. *Cheaper is not always better.


voxstr**(08/13/10 07:20 PM)
I just purchased a 2010 G37x had I known this was coming I would have waited.


^Look at that, a 37 owner that would have been a 25 owner. Who woulda thunk it. (not a question)


2011 Infiniti G25 To Start Just Under $31,000 - AutoSpies Auto News


There obviously is a market for the car out there. Now just how much it depletes the G37 is the question.
— Agent009


One thing is for sure, Used Car lots are not going to be happy because the G-series is a very good car for them.
— MorePower

Unfortunately, most people(excluding those who read this blog and a few others) would rather buy a car that is pretty loaded with options and has the smaller engine than go with the same model with the larger engine and not loaded. Why do you think there are so many MB's, Audi's and BMW's without model tags?— MorePower


This might hurt G37 sales. — TauronB2G


Infiniti G25: 2.5-Liter V6, 218 Horsepower, $30,995

church123 says:
01:02 PM, 08/13/10
...G37 sales will go down slightly as half of the people buying G25s would have been G37 customers stretching their finances before the advent of the new model. The rest will be conquests. The internal cannibalization will hurt per unit profits slightly, but higher sales and reduced costs will more than make up for it.

^He's referring to the potential it has to hurt 37 sales, while increasing G sales overall. Sounds a lot like what I said...

church123 says:
03:25 PM, 08/13/10
If these people walk into a dealership and see a car they like, and find out they can get into it for less by giving up something they don't care about (110 hp), then they're going to buy it.

1487 says:
04:38 PM, 08/15/10
Since Infiniti is supposed to specialize in sports sedans you would think they would be aiming higher.

bimmerjay says:
11:06 PM, 08/17/10
They will do well with this despite some cannibalization of G37 sales.

makakio says:
11:11 AM, 08/17/10
I'll think they'll sell fast and hard. If there's any risk on Infiniti's part it's a gradual cheapening of the Infiniti marque.

Maybe I'm recieving "negative reviews" here because I'm dealing with sedan guys. After all, you're the ones being hit by this first.

I rest my case.

15951

You just posted reader comments to articles. I'd hardly qualify them as experts. If that's what you use to "rest your case", then your argument is in big trouble.

This horse isn't even recognizable at this point, guys. Let it go.

JohnEnglish

Reader's comments aren't expert opinions. It's one thing to offer an entry level model whose only difference is a smaller engine. It's something else to offer a "Cimarron type vehicle".

I don't see people complaining about the BMW 1 series, the 328i or the Mercedes C300.

In Canada we have the Mercedes B-Class which is a minature front wheel drive minivan with a 130 HP 4 cylinder engine. We also have the BMW 323i, and the Mercedes C230.

These vehicles all sell really well and they have not hurt the perception of BMW or Mercedes Benz as "luxury vehicles". Becuase the vehicles capture the essence of what the manufacturer is all about. Please they bring in younger customers to the brand who can then upgrade to higher level vehicles later on in life.

I actually have a G37xS sedan and G37S coupe (long story) and having a G25 verions out there doesn't bother me in the least. It's not a vehicle I would buy personally but I couldn't care less if other people did. I would welcome it as it means more revenue for Infiniti.

If you judge a car's status by how many you see on the road then you shouldnt be looking at entry level luxury vehicles becuase they're everywhere. Look for the $80,000+ luxury vehicles if you want exsclusivity.

da mayor

iTrader: (2)

but the BMW 3-series sedans outsell the Infiniti G sedans already in the US Market... there are tons of BMW's all over the place, and people are already complaining about the G's being a dime a dozen.

Either way, the 2003 G sedan started out at just under $30k back then for a 2003 G35 sedan with a doggy door trunk, cloth interior, and no HID's....

And the G37 vs the G25 ratio is only going to be 10 to 1 in my opinion

Vasher

It's upsetting though. I absolutely love the G's (sedan and coupe), one of the most beautiful cars on the road. Honestly, I was hoping to keep that love for the car until the new model release, but the 25 may cut that short.

No one complains about the IS250, 328, A4 etc, but no one notices them either. There are so many around here that you just stop looking. They blend right in with the Accords, Camry's, Altima's, etc.

The earlier G's are all over the place, but I still only see a handful of 37 coupes and maybe a dozen 37 sedans regularly. There are a lot more current model BMW, Audi, Lexus, Mercs around here. The 25 will make the G far more common (possibly a little too common).

No doubt, this will boost Infiniti sales. Hopefully that extra revenue will help develop the IPL (which isn't too impressive right now). I would really like to see Infiniti release something to combat the BMW M's, Audi S/RS, AMG, and put the IS-F to shame.

I'll cross my fingers in hopes that there's a silver lining to this cloud.