JohnEnglish

Not necessarily, you're assuming that 328 buyers would become 335 buyers. The number of 335 buyers hasn't changed so their value would stay the same. Their value may even droip becuase now it's harder to sell a 3 series since it's all or nothing. Because there are so many close replacements their value would not increase.

I guess if having an "exclusive" car and being in a certain demographic is important then the G25 will take some of that away as it'll make Gs more common. On the flip side it means more money for Infiniti which is always a good thing. Look at all the retarded BMW fans and the stupid stuff they do with their base 328s. M3, M5, and 7 Series owners probably don't want to be associated with those people but they like the money they give BMW so they can build cool cars like the M3, M5 and 7 Series. Infiniti either has to appeal to more people or drastically raise their profit margins, it's a lot easier to build a car that will attract a wider audience.

Vasher

• Not an assumption, some would.
• Yes it has.
• Again, supply/demand.
• Possibly, but it's more likely that resale value would increase (because there aren't that many TT entry level luxury sedans/coupes).

So, G25 sedans for all, which begets G25 coupes for the rest, I sell my G and return to Infiniti when there is a Mt. Fuji symbol on the back of a GTR (well, it's cousin that is).

I can live with that.

KLB

It seems to me that by the logic of a G25 lowering the resale value of the G37, currently the G37 should have the highest resale since it is the only one that does not have a lesser model available.

328HP

KLB you nailed it.

In addition, the "exclusiveness" being referred to is due to Infiniti's poor brand image relative to BMW resulting in people shying away from the brand and going for say a 328i. In other words the 328i presents a "better image" than a G37 to most which is why the "exlusive mirage" is being observed now. However Infiniti's sales are gaining momentum as the brand is being perceived better and this mirage will start to fade away. So if one is more concerned about image then Infiniti is the wrong place to begin with, with or without the G25

Vasher

There are other factors effecting resale value, so no, your logic don't flow.

However, the G did have the highest resale value in it's class until this year. Audi's A5 now wears the crown. And before you comment on that... read below.

Ugh. See above.

However Infiniti's sales are gaining momentum as the brand is being perceived better and this mirage will start to fade away. So if one is more concerned about image then Infiniti is the wrong place to begin with, with or without the G25[/QUOTE]

No, the 328 shares the same "exclusivity" that the 37 has because they start at nearly the same base price. So, if you can buy 37, you can buy a 328, TL, A4/A5, etc. Now, if the 37 were to become the "base" model due to a G56 or a TT/SC version being released (as the 328 is to the 335, A4/A5 to S4/S5, etc.) it would benefit by association. The step up in model would obviously cost more, increasing the G's "exclusivity" and the general perception of it's worth/expense.

The G25 does not do this as it comes in at a base price BELOW all these vehicles, which diminishes it's "exclusivity", the general perception of it's worth/expense (as more people now look at your car and believe they could purchase it new, although they are thinking 25, but looking at a 37), and lowers the 37's resale value accordingly.

Again, I'm not talking brand image, but since you want to… the G25 is going to hurt that as well. The fact that a new Infiniti can be picked up in the mid 20k price range (after bargaining/incentives) cheapens the Infiniti logo. Are they trying to develop as a luxury brand, netting would be BMW, Merc, Audi buyers? Or, are they merely trying to sell cars by making models that are affordable to every shmoe and/or punk kid working at KFC? The release of the G25 seems more a move towards the latter, which is what is bugging me.

JohnEnglish

Most people don't look at a 328i or 535i and think "hmmm... he got the base model, his car isn't as exclusive as the 335i or 550i". They don't factor in trim lines, options, and base vehicle prices. They just see the BMW badge and think "nice car". Samething with the G25, people will see it's an Infiniti and that's it.

Personally I could care less who else drives the car that I do, I got the car becuase I like it not becuase of other people's opinion of it. If you really want to give off the image of exclusivity then you need to move into the M/AMG/RS line of vehicles.

328HP

The 328i is hardly "exclusive", the Q56 (I know you have one) now we can start talking about some level of exclusiveness since we are talking high 50s to high 70s. Since the 328i starts at 33k am sure it can be had in the high 20s after incentives and mid 20s once you are in the used market, actually Infiniti was offering incentives as high as 6k on the 09s, implying mid 20s for the G37. Lets not forget the low lease rates in the 300s for the 328i, Honda Accords can be had for that much when financing.

Sorry to hear this bothers you man, but truth be told, it comes with the territory at these price levels across all brands. If you want to associate with some chosen "demographic", move upscale, an S5/S4 will do the trick. Like I said there would probably have been as many G37s as 3ers given the trend that was developing in sales, before the G25. In my opinion, people who have been buyng the G37 to date are more about performance than brand, so fewer will trade their 37 for the 25. New players will get the 25 but the G37's residuals will remain as strong as there were before. I believe the 335i has always had better residuals than the 37, but you may be referring to the coupe only, KLB and myself were referring to all G37s

Vasher

You're right, but you continue to refer to the base model benefiting from the recognition/cost of higher models. We're talking about our 37's losing a little, where the new 25 will obviously be recognized because of the 37. However, when it's teens and fast food chain workers driving the car, that "prestige" fades. The 328 and 535 are still priced just out of reach for the majority. The 25 will not be.

@328hp- You're also right, but you're comparing the base price of a barren 37 (sedan) to the fully loaded Accord. The 328, 37, A4/A5, TL, IS(350), C(350), all seem to teeter on the cusp of affordable autos. The 25 will appeal to a whole new demographic for Infiniti, one that may not necesarily do it's image any good.

I don't want to be associated with "the chosen", but I wanted a car that wasn't readily available to the masses that offered luxury, along with performance. Now that the G can be picked up for next to nothing, I'm regreting not getting the S5. New A7 looks good though, and there will be S and RS models available later. I retract that last statement, A7's profile is odd.

You see, there will be one more 37S coupe on the used market soon, increasing supply, which will decrease resale value in general.

328HP

Yes, I agree with you. S5 will give you what you are looking for, am glad you were not going to jump from the pan to the fire by getting an A4/A5, 3er exact same thing will happen over there.

Dont sell now though, with the G25 coming on board that will provide a price floor on the used market for the 37, you may want to benefit from that

Vasher

Hadn't read the whole thread, at least one person sees my point of view.

328hp, I have to sell before the 25 coupe is released, or I take a greater hit.

G25.

ScottyBeGood

greg_atlanta:

1) a car is not an investment. if you want to "retain value" then put your money in the bank. all cars depreciate, and there's no way you can predict how fast your car will depreciate versus other cars.

This is my favorite reference here. +5

Anyone know when the G25 is going to start appearing??:confused2

MSCA

iTrader: (3)

Sorry, but you are making an assumption whether you realize it or not. You claimed that BMW purposely underrated the 335i’s HP because it might hurt M3 sales. I don’t care if the difference is only 80 HP or 114 HP….that doesn’t suggest to me the reason for the 335i to be underrated at all. If BMW is so worried about M3 sales, then they could surely lower the MSRP to be more competitive. If you haven’t noticed, the M3 has increased in price dramatically over the last 10 years or so. I had a 1999 M3 that stickered at $42K. Still though, the M3 was never intended to be a high-volume seller….it’s a niche car for people who like ultimate performance.

MSCA

iTrader: (3)

I think you should go work for BMW since you have it all figured out. You can explain to them how silly it is to sell the 328, 335, and M3 side-by-side at their dealerships. Then you can explain how they are hurting M3 owners by selling the 335 and hurting 335 owners by selling the 328. Maybe you can even let them explain to you why they’ve offered multiple engine choices in their 3-series vehicles for years now. Personally, I think your point of view is 95% drama and maybe 5% substance.

You’ve referenced teenagers a few times, saying that they now have a model that they can afford and that we’ll soon see a bunch of G cars with huge rear wings and oversized chrome wheels. Did you ever stop to think that the price difference between a new G37 and a new G25 will be similar to the price difference of a new G37 and a used G37? Actually, a lightly used G37 will probably be the less expensive alternative over a new G25. Don’t look now, but teens don’t need a lower entry level car in order to get their hands on a G and mod it. The used car market already exists and they already have access to G37 coupes and sedans that are well under the price of new models. BTW, if you don’t think the flood of off-lease G37s have an effect on the prices of new G37s, you might want to re-examine your “supply and demand” textbooks.

nisslover

Ditto.

If you don't want to be associated with a certain group of consumers then buy a Maserati or something. The G37 is not a car of exclusivity. Sorry to break it to you and I don't know where you got that idea from. Its a shame that you can't appreciate the great car you have and are considering selling it because it now has a lower price point. All because you are worried about what others think of you.

Vasher

Fail.

You obviously don't understand my argument, so I won't waste time attempting to beat it into your head any further. I never said that selling the base models (328, C300, soon to be G25, etc.) hurt the manufacturer/dealership. They sell more cars by doing so, great.

Regarding the various "trim" levels currently available... alright I'll try to explain it to you one more time. Real slow and simple this time; Car company 123 sells car A for $4X,XXX. Now they release car A-, and are able to sell it for $2X,XXX. Car A was a great seller, but now car A- bites into a large portion of it's sales because of the significant price difference. Die hards still by A, but the majority are interested in A-.

That means, if the 335 were the only model available, there would be an increase in the total number of 335's sold. However, it would mean a decrease in the total number of 3 series sales overall.

Please, invalidate this.

since you probably failed to understand the logic, I'll lay it out like so;

Take people 1-10. 1 and 2 are priced out of the 335, so would only purchase a 328. 3 and 4 are on the cusp between 328 and 335 (cost vs performance). 5/6 are going with 335 no matter what, 7/8 are deciding between modding a 335/keeping M3 stock, 9 is all about the M, and 10 is sofaking ( ) hot that her sugar daddy bought her a Supercharged Range Rover.

Remove the 328 and M from the picture and clearly some on the fence would go w/ the 335. Apply this over the range of 3 series sales. Then consider the impact on the G (the 37 being the equivalent of the 335, 25 that of the 328). Too bad we don't have an "M".

I know that the numbers don't play out with such simplicity, but hopefully ( ) you (MSCA), can grasp this.

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension. I did say that in a couple years, when the 25 hits used lots, that it will be relatively cheap (~$17-$19k for high mileage w/ limited options). A price point that would make it attainable to nearly everyone, and it will be.

However, thanks for pointing out the obvious.

So yeah, you missed the boat on that one too.

Throwing out the obvious and "supporting" it with a condescending remark do not validate your "argument".

Here's one for the road

FAIL

Seriously though. Let's drop this "homey".

It was all in good fun (I'm still right).

Was looking at the CTS-V (either sedan or coupe). GM, eh, but it'll be fun.