JonfromCB

I respectfully disagree. They din't do it to brag about, they
did it increase their mileage and decrease their
emissions. EPA/ CAFE standards are very strict. From
what I've read and been told , Nissan had to use their oil for a
miniumun perscribed period before they were allowed to raise the
claimed MPG on their new car stickers....hence the increased MPG
on the 2010 models as compared to the mechanically identical 2009 models.
The CAFE rules and laws require that a manufacturer is only allowed to
"recommend" a specific part or fluid in their car IF that part or fluid was
used to determine their CAFE rating AND that part or fluid is OEM at sale.

JonfromCB

Juicy', You make good points, and I really respect your opinion and
conversation. Nissan has used some really bogus terms like
"diamond like coating" and "Ester Oil", but if you look past the
bad marketing and bogus terminology there is alot of science
that can be appreciated and understood by those who
want to know. I sure don't want to intentionally insult
anyone here, but many here just won't or don't have
the capacity to grasp how Nissan Ester works. Again
no insult intended, but most mechanics don't even
understand what this stuff is an how it works
and probably don't believe it anyway.

In my opinion, Nissan is way ahead of other manufactures
and oil companies with their lubrication R+D. They have
been quietly working on this for a long time.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...ne-lubrication

Here's the poop, stay with me here: Nissan has developed a
proprietory friction modifier, with a bugus name (diamond like particles) which
is their secret substance of some kind of carbon nano-particles
that are non-hydrocarbon (not from petroleum)...unlike every other
typical oil which uses hydocarbon or petroleum based friction modifers,
they are using a solid carbon nono-particle some say might even
be processed industrial diamond dust.....only Nissan and folks with
neuton microscopes know for sure.

The magic and secret is in the technology, not the amount of
ester they use, and not in their base stock which appears from
VOAs on the web to be pretty typical semi-synthetic.
Nissan spent alot of time, money, brainpower, science and physics to
find a way to suspend these secret nono-particles in a secret
blend of esters so that they would target, react with, and be
chemically, molecularly, and physically attracted to the parts of their
engines that are coated with their "diamond like coating"
plasma coated engine parts to significantly reduce
friction between those coated parts . Besides reducing
friction, when some of these friction modifiers get out the
exhaust pipe, they are solids and non-polluntants which gives
Nissan a huge pollution control edge that no other car
manufacturer or oil company has approched in this
way....it really is a major deal and puts Nisssan
way out front in lubrication and pollution technology.

Here's another way to look at it. Nissan Ester
oil has no added benefit at all in engines that
don't have Nissan's proprietory parts coatings
because it is specifically designed to react
with, stick to, and reduce friction between those
coated parts. All Nissan will tell us to
describe how this magic stuff works is they
have developed a "nitrogen free process" that provides
a reaction between their oil and their coated parts.
Since this oil only does it's magic with Nissan's
plasma coating, it would be stupid and foolish
for Nissan to share or sell their formula with
any oil company.

Do we have to use it in our VVEL engines?....NO
Do many people understand how it works? ....Hell no!
because they won't bother, don't care, or can't
intellectually understand how it works and those
people won't bother to find out or believe it anyway.

I don't sell the stuff, and I don't personally care
what anyone uses.....I've spent alot of time learning
and peicing this information togeather and I'm only
trying to share it with other fans and owners
of VVEL engines. ....and Hey Nissan, you've done
a really crappy job of explaining to your dealerships,
mechanics, salesman ,and customers what your
oil really is (it sure ain't ester), how it
works, and why you "recommend " it for your engines.

gtracing

iTrader: (3)

Ok, so this is what i found out today when me and my brother went to go for test drives at the local automall....went to Nissan AND Infiniti (buddy works at Nissan)...and buddy who got his service manager to talk to me said that:

1) VQ motors (at least in Canada, he's not gonna assume anything about the US one's, but he said it "should" be the same) for 08 and 09 models, all came with regular Mobil1 5W30 oil for factory fill...it wasn't till 2010 that Nissan/Infiniti started using ESTER oil for factory fill....

2) Nissan/Infiniti were both aware of this valve ticking issue even before the G37 or 370z came to Canada (letter was sent from Nissan Canada to every Nissan/Infiniti dealership apparently)...service reps were instructed to HIGHLY recommend using Ester oil rather than regular oil for customer's first oil change....it was up to the customer to make the decision (because of the big price difference)...some vehicles also did not have a valve ticking issue....but odds were still pretty high that the car had valve noise...(he said over 80% of VQ motors had it)....some customers didn't care (i'm assuming the older drivers who are half deaf)

3) Nissan/Infiniti Canada is "planning" to raise their prices for oil changes just for VQ motors to compensate for the Ester oil which they are planning to use standard on all VQ oil changes from now on (should change over sometime this summer)....see if this goes through....regular oil is still an option but must be requested when the vehicle is dropped off...(right now u have to request for ester oil, or else they give u regular oil...)

4) and i quote "If you love your car, there's no question about it, use Ester oil" ~Service Manager

I went to Infiniti after and asked the service manager if these facts were true....he confirmed that he knew about the ester oil as a recommendation and that it wasn't factory fill for 08 and 09 models....but was pretty much clueless about everything else...haha

juicybusa

Jon, I appreciate the civil tone of our discourse as well. If this technology is as beneficial as presented, then it would seem to be a great potential economic benefit for Nissan to license this groundbreaking process and lubricant to any number of industries that could benefit from this amazing friction reduction. I can't imagine there currently is a huge return on investment if the vvel valvetrain continues to be the exclusive worldwide application.

JonfromCB

Another totally ignorant Infiniti Service Manager putting out
incorrect information. GT, I appreciate your post and
in no way am I insulting or faulting you. Again, I recommend
that you not take his word for it. He is wrong, Check for yourself.
I do like his comment, "if you love your car...use Ester oil" though.

JonfromCB

Juicy, you are absolutely right.
I don't know all the ins-and-outs but I'm watching this
closely (I do research on products and companies),
Nissan's european patent was initially denied for two
reasons. 1. it was technically too vague, and essentially
didn't have enough detail for the patent approvers to
conclude a patent should be approved.
2. Nissan is not the first to suspend solids in lubricants
...Arco Graphite in the 70's and now Conaco-
Phillips is using micro partacles of titanium as a friction
modifier. Note: Nissan is the first to suspend nano
particles in motor oil.

As long Nissan doesn't have a patent they aren't going
to share their secrets, and noone is going to buy
intellectual property from them without a license
that protects both parties. Nissan also has a specified period
of time to appeal the decision by proviing more info'.
I understand that their invention is protected during
the appeal period. My opinion, for what it's worth is
they will consider what future/potential dollar value
of this invention is, AND, you can bet their scientists
have at least a vague idea of how close other leaders
in lubrication are to cracking or surpassing their
technology. Luckily for all us stupid humans,
the scientific community shares alot more
information than the corporate vampires
they work for......it's always about the dollar.

They can always tie-up the appeal in courts
for years and protect their invention....
It will be interesting to see what they do.

Unfortunately for our pocketbooks, new
even stricter emission requirements are
driving (forgive the pun) two new API
oil certifications this year, with even more
coming in the next 9 years which will
increase motor oil costs so much that
Nissan Ester will be cheap at $12/quart.

SM_Shadowman

Or maybe the cost of the Nissan Oil will increase proportionately.

Jon, I saw in an old similar thread you were planning on switching to Redline after your free oil changes expired. Is that still your plan?

JonfromCB

Hey Shadowman, Yes, using Redline is the "Plan" lol, I emphasize
"Plan" because that's still almost 3 years away and there are
other variables....(the 2011 Mustang with a new 5 liter/420 Lbs/Ft
of torque is looking very tastey and tempting) haha

Are you using the Nissan oil? Someone sent me this link with
the lowest price I've seen:

Nissan Ester Oil 5W30. Specifically designed for the new 3.7 liter VQ engines.

Hopefully Nissan is establishing some user demand/inventory
data that usually leads to lower stabalized price as they
start selling more of it.....and if the price gouging vampire
dealerships start to price match the lowest price instead
of the $12 to $15/quart BS. I'm going to make it a point
to call the 4 local dealerships here in Omaha and ask them
why they can't sell it for the same price as this link?....

SM_Shadowman

Yeah, someone posted that in another thread. Shipping is around $9 for me, which is also about as good as it gets. That filter will probably get thrown out, though.

cdso

Does the factory fill contain a special wear additive to help the internal components break in? If not, I may go ahead and switch to Pennzoil before my 1st oil change.

SM_Shadowman

The owners manual says, "Your engine was filled with a high quality engine oil when it was built. You do not have to change the oil before the first recommended change interval."

I had a UOA done on my factory oil at the first change. It indicated a high amount of wear which Blackstone said was an appropriate level for factory oil & engine break-in.

But from what I've read, it seems there are quite a few people who change it early during break-in anyway. It's up to you.

JonfromCB

I would guess from my own previous UOAs and the few new ones available that Nissan is not using any special break-in additives. There are rumors that Honda uses a special break-in oil in some of their engines. My opinion is it's just moly from the assembly lube showing up in the first UOA. There is no reason I know of to use break-in oil in modern engines, and EPA/CAFE standards require manufacturers to use what they specify.

LightsOut

iTrader: (7)

I posted that link and
its actually a dealer in Arizona. lol

eauty

Well I just got my first oil change on my car and I have the Elite 1 Mainteance Contract on my leased '09 G37. I asked what they use for oil changes at Suburban Infiniti of Troy, MI and they used Valvoline!!! On my service receipt they referred to the oil as "oilpak2" . I asked the service rep if he heard of Nissan Ester oil and he said no and they strictly use valvoline for all oil changes. Just an FYI

LightsOut

iTrader: (7)

^^^^^

lol
same post different thread