ThebigJ

The standard transmission of BMW is zf-8 not DCT. Lexus also has its own 8 speed both are much better than the 7at in Infiniti's.

There is not proof that slushboxes are more reliable than DCT's. However slushboxes are cheaper!!!

So not only Infiniti is being cheap by not going DCT in their RS but also their 7at is lagging behind of the torque converter trannies of the competition.

sdwilly

My issues is once you clear 60k, the higher priced competition doesn't look so bad price wise. If I'm going to spend 65k on a Q60, why not another 10k and get the M4. Starts seeming more palatable.

gill1606

There was someone saying that the G37 tranny shifted faster than the Q60, according to Infiniti the 7AT is suppose to be adaptive, controlling shifting to match the driving style of the individual. previous owner may have been less of an aggressive driver, hence slower shifts:

"Electronically controlled 7-speed automatic with Adaptive Shift Control (ASC) and dual automatic transmission fluid coolers

Driver-adaptive learning algorithm senses driving style and adjusts automatic shifting accordingly."

Infiniti may have cheaped out getting the 7AT, but at least it will work well enough, they have 2 AT tranny fluid coolers keeping it well maintained during moderate or severe use. So reliability of that 7AT is there.

gill1606

Yea the BMW M4 Coupe is using its 7 speed DCT. BMW M4 Coupe - Features & Specs - Specifications - BMW North America

ThebigJ

I know that M4 uses DCT.

M2 also uses DCT as well as CLA45 amg and both of those vehicles are being sold at a similar price point.

My point was, not only Infiniti is not bringing DCT, which they should for the price point of RS 400, their 7at is not even on par with BMW's or chevy's or Lexus' 8speed mainstream slushboxes!

So you see RS is not even on par with m-package 3/4 series let alone "M" cars(and they are not trying to compete with M cars anyways).

You don't make sporty cars by just tuning a Turbo engine for an additional 100hp, 400hp from a TT 3 liter is not a big deal these days ...

I also agree with SDwilly, most of the people who can afford to spend 60K on a car can afford an additional 10-15K and get a true sports car instead of this Frankenstein.

gill1606

Yea but the BMW M cars don't have 2 dedicated transmission coolers for their DCT, they are using a oil/air cooler and engine cooling to keep the tranny from overheating. I don't know how effective that is over having 2 dedicated automatic transmission coolers in addition to the engine/radiator for keeping the tranny properly functioning. possibly increasing reliability of the infiniti tranny.

There's a bit of aftermarket for the M series in adding transmission coolers when these, not one but two, come stock from factory with the Q60. Are M drivers having DCT overheating issues? Is the oil/air cooling not good enough?

QX4cor

Well, since I referenced $60k, it seems as though this is pointed at my previous post. You need to reread it bigJ. I absolutely stated that I would NOT spend $60k on the Q50 RS.
Secondly, I stated that I felt the Q60 RS was the best AWD (AWD!!!!) COUPE option for UNDER $60k. The competition certainly narrows when you use these factors.

Under $60k, sdwilly, UNDER.
Oh, and "why not another 10k", well how about not wanting to pay another $200 per month. Just because you can afford a $60k vehicle, doesn't mean you don't have a budget.

I was talking total package when I said I felt the Q60 RS was the best AWD coupe for under $60k. I understand that many people on this forum, and certainly this thread, are VERY interested in performance and that's great. I personally am looking for the whole package: style, functionality, performance, comfort, etc., etc..... I want the whole package, not just the best 0-60mph time.

I am interested in a Q60 RS400, with Premium Plus only. It lists for just under $57k. For that I'll get: superior exterior styling and lines (IMO), 19" wheels, big brakes, digital adjustable suspension, LEDs all the way around, real leather, nav, heated seats, heated wheel, remote start, paddle shifters (in a much better location than the previous model), premium stereo.........Oh, and 400hp and a 0-60mph around 4.3-4.4 secs.

You're not getting that with the competition for $57K. Right?
Audi- TTS and S5: the dated exterior styling alone keeps me away, not to mention under 300 hp for the TTS and 330 for the S5. No thanks.
BMW- 440i packaged this way is in the range of about $63-64K, too steep. Now, the M240i is interesting and you can load it up for about $56k. I've just never thought much of lower level BMW interiors, fit and finish wise. I also am just not sure that the exterior is as dynamic as the Q60. It looks a little more rally car than luxury coupe to me. I will however test drive one when I can find one on a lot near me (are they even out there yet?)
Mercedes and Lexus dont even have a coupe that is in the $55- 60k range. It's either $45k or $70k, with nothing in the middle.

So, I'll stand by my statement that the Q60 RS400 is the best all-around AWD coupe for under $60k. IMHO.

User 122320

iTrader: (2)

Cars with turbos loves to overheat. The Nissan GT-R with DCT transmission is another example.

KAHBOOM

iTrader: (4)

Similar thoughts (although I dont agree on the paddle shifters. I like them in the fixed position better )
For the price the Infiniti fills a sweet spot better than the competitors. The S5 however (at least the previous gen) put down a lot of performance for its power rating. And with the DCT AWD that car drove and cornered great. But they have now gone from DCT to a torque converted auto

The BMWs have a nice package in the M trims. But I dont trust them long term.... I digress

Infiniti, particularly the G, has always been a jack of all trades - master of few -not necessarily bad at anything but not the best at one thing- so they leave you always wanting more.
However they have generally included features that you would normally only see on a competitors halo model. ex: LSD, Multi-piston BBK, good looking large diameter wheels, staggered wheel stance, semi-exotic exhaust tone sporty steering rack etc... which made it mod/ enthusiast friendly (aside from the engine).

But I am not sure that formula was making Infiniti the money that they are seeking to make since that appealed to a relatively small audience. So now it appears they are trying to cash in on luxury as their primary focus.

gill1606

Yea but they did slap a GTR VR engine in the engine bay, you can look at it as a race car with luxury, or a luxury car with great racing potential.

Its 7AT should be good enough to handle that power, not as quick as a DCT, but good enough with that Adaptive Shift Control. If you are going to get more power out of the VR then a tranny update maybe necessary, might as well go DCT then. But stock it's reliable for however you want to push the car. Nissan put 2 tranny coolers in it instead of one, plus most manufacturers also wire through the engine/radiator providing for extra cooling and better target temps.

I think the M4 only has a single oil/air cooler plus the engine/radiator wiring, which according to some is not the best at cooling anyway since the radiator is always hot. Which is why some M3/M4 drivers get an extra tranny cooler installed aftermarket. For those who want that extra insurance without the hassle of adding one afterward, in case they start driving more aggressively---because 400 HP is more than enough power to wrangle for most people, the Q60 would be a better choice.

User 122320

iTrader: (2)

FYI, most if not all tranny coolers are hooked up to the radiator. Even the aftermarket ones that "BMW" owners buys.

All automatic trannys are hooked up to the radiator also. When you buy an aftermarket cooler, all you are doing is adding another "radiator" to the hose that goes to the tranny.

Infinti probably added 2 because they tried it with 1 but it kept overheating. So as a quick fix, they added another.

The RS will get 2 waterpumps. That means 2x more chances to fail.

saywat?

iTrader: (3)

yay no convertible. those things were so horrible to look at

gill1606

The above specs are for a DCT tranny BMW M4 with 130 more HP and 154 more ft lbs of Torque over the 7AT adaptive shift control, dual tranny cooler, Q50 Red Sport.

Look at the 1/4 mile times and top speeds for both: the Q50 RS 400 RWD version:
Standing ¼-mile: 13.0 sec @ 112 mph,
Top speed (governor limited): 153 mph.

The Q50 RS 400's 7AT sure is keeping up with that 400 HP VR in delivering near comparable performance to the DCT tranny M4 compared above even with the M4's increased torque and horsepower as well as it being 261 lbs lighter than the RWD Q50 RS 400. And base price for a Q50 RS 400 is 53K, while for the M4 Dinan its 77K.

No one has tested an AWD Red Sport yet, its better traction may improve numbers more. That 7AT isn't as bad as everyone is making it out to be.

saywat?

iTrader: (3)

anyone notice gtr prices at the dealer has gone down a little. its now closer to $100k rather than close to $120k

ThebigJ

I know you love the new Q60 and constantly trying to justify it but sorry 7at is no where close to a DCT.

2 tranny coolers does not make a superior transmission, it is simply, as sdwilly stated, that old transmission was heating so they had to put one more cooler, that is it. That actually shows that 7at is quite dated and not designed for this application.

Straightline speed is also no measure of how good a transmission is, a 5 speed auto may be even faster since it does not have to shift as much as a 7at and it means nothing. The transmission shines when you are driving the car in corners and changing gears back and forth. How fast it responds is what matters.

For upshifts new 8speed slushboxes are good and fast (and better than 7at), but for downshifts and shifting feel , there is absolutely no substitute for a DCT.

And don't give me the price argument , a 45K Camaro replicates those M4 numbers and handling.