Q60 Final Teaser - Revealed in Detroit
09-05-2016, 02:26 AM
#3001
It has been proven that the 3.0t is underrated and Just because Ford just so happened to drop a pretty powerful engine in a Fusion takes nothing away from what Infiniti has done with the 3.0 in non-RS and RS form.
09-05-2016, 10:07 AM
#3002
Well, ok. I'll play. For starters, the base 3.0 puts out 30 less peak hp than the old engine base 3.7L and 48 less than the IPL. Yes, it has a far greater torque plateau and I have zero doubt it'll be a better "street" engine. But 300hp is a pretty underwhelming number that, right off the bat, isn't going to make for a barn burner in a 3800 pound car. Nothing like being dusted by a family sedan in your new Infiniti. And it won't just be a Fusion that'll give you a good run. And I'm certainly not trying to take anything away but I am providing context. 
I'm well aware the RS is going to be significantly faster. That's where my money would go depending on pricing and how it'll perform in real world tests vs say an M2.
And to be clear, I've stated that I like the Q60 numerous times in this thread. But I also go into it with eyes wide open and no fanboy bias because well, it's my money and I know what I'm looking for in a car. How the Q60 drives, in any iteration, will be the real tell. It's definitely an IMO. I just think Infiniti is sandbagging probably due to fleet EPA issues.
I've seen no evidence the 3.0tt is being underrated. There are several dyno runs over on the 370z forum and all are putting down less hp at the wheels than what they're rated at the flywheel by the factory. Everything else where folks are claiming they're putting down (stock) what they're rated at were just rumors.
Plus I'd not really put any faith into any dyno outside of Nissan's own engine room or a highly qualified SAE/ISO certified engineering shop that has an engine dyno. Too much other stuff muddies the waters to use the average tuning shop dyno as an accurate measurement of an SAE certified engine's power output.
Sure, they're making nice gains with downpipes and cat-backs at this early stage but there goes your warranty, on a first year production run no less, car. Make sure you have bags of cash if you're going to roll those dice. Looks like the cars are putting out an additional 2psi of boost with the mods, aka 2psi more than Nissan intended or designed into the production model.
If anything, Infiniti is now on equal footing in terms of engine complexity with their German counterparts. I like the n/a engines (knock on wood) because they are, for the most part, pretty solid, problem-free designs with far fewer issues overall than offerings from the big three Germans. Yeah, there's been some pretty horrific stories out of our camp too but it doesn't seem to be anywhere near the level of MB, BMW and Audi. I have personal experience with two of those brands and an ongoing nightmare with one currently.
Anyway...Infiniti should have bumped the numbers a bit higher. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
I'm well aware the RS is going to be significantly faster. That's where my money would go depending on pricing and how it'll perform in real world tests vs say an M2.
And to be clear, I've stated that I like the Q60 numerous times in this thread. But I also go into it with eyes wide open and no fanboy bias because well, it's my money and I know what I'm looking for in a car. How the Q60 drives, in any iteration, will be the real tell. It's definitely an IMO. I just think Infiniti is sandbagging probably due to fleet EPA issues.
I've seen no evidence the 3.0tt is being underrated. There are several dyno runs over on the 370z forum and all are putting down less hp at the wheels than what they're rated at the flywheel by the factory. Everything else where folks are claiming they're putting down (stock) what they're rated at were just rumors.
Plus I'd not really put any faith into any dyno outside of Nissan's own engine room or a highly qualified SAE/ISO certified engineering shop that has an engine dyno. Too much other stuff muddies the waters to use the average tuning shop dyno as an accurate measurement of an SAE certified engine's power output.
Sure, they're making nice gains with downpipes and cat-backs at this early stage but there goes your warranty, on a first year production run no less, car. Make sure you have bags of cash if you're going to roll those dice. Looks like the cars are putting out an additional 2psi of boost with the mods, aka 2psi more than Nissan intended or designed into the production model.
If anything, Infiniti is now on equal footing in terms of engine complexity with their German counterparts. I like the n/a engines (knock on wood) because they are, for the most part, pretty solid, problem-free designs with far fewer issues overall than offerings from the big three Germans. Yeah, there's been some pretty horrific stories out of our camp too but it doesn't seem to be anywhere near the level of MB, BMW and Audi. I have personal experience with two of those brands and an ongoing nightmare with one currently.
Anyway...Infiniti should have bumped the numbers a bit higher. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
09-05-2016, 01:08 PM
#3003
what Apefactory said.
Infiniti's 300hp twin turbo 3.0L 6-cylinder is putting out less power than Subaru's 305hp single turbo 2.5L 4-cylinder. the Focus RS is getting 350hp from an I4.
dont expect nearly as much aftermarket support for Infiniti, either.
why the added complexity for such low output? they could have the V6TT setup for the Redsport, but could have used a single turbo I4 for the lower models.
Infiniti's 300hp twin turbo 3.0L 6-cylinder is putting out less power than Subaru's 305hp single turbo 2.5L 4-cylinder. the Focus RS is getting 350hp from an I4.
dont expect nearly as much aftermarket support for Infiniti, either.
why the added complexity for such low output? they could have the V6TT setup for the Redsport, but could have used a single turbo I4 for the lower models.
09-05-2016, 03:45 PM
#3004
Registered Member
Yea but is that ford built for handling and cornering like the Q50/60? The Q has comparable power and torque plus being a naturally easy to handle drift machine coming in AWD and RWD. Moreover this isn't the NA VQ anymore. I am sure this engine is capable of even more power if tuners cooperate.
Last edited by gill1606; 09-05-2016 at 04:02 PM.
09-05-2016, 04:18 PM
#3005
Yea but is that ford built for handling and cornering like the Q50/60? The Q has comparable power and torque plus being a naturally easy to handle drift machine coming in AWD and RWD. Moreover this isn't the NA VQ anymore. I am sure this engine is capable of even more power if tuners cooperate.
09-05-2016, 04:29 PM
#3006
i'm pretty sure the Focus RS will hand the porky Q60 its *** as far as acceleration and handling. it has AWD and torque vectoring. i'd love it if i didn't hate 4 door hatchbacks.
Moreover this isn't the NA VQ anymore. I am sure this engine is capable of even more power if tuners cooperate.
look at the wide variety of aftermarket items available to the last gen G37 that's been around since 2008 .... [crickets]
09-05-2016, 04:47 PM
#3007
Registered User
Thread Starter
Wow, this is a tough crowd to please. I'm sure the engineers over at Infiniti took into account what the guys over at ford were doing when they designed the new engines..... Wait, did I say Ford? Oh yeah because they are direct competitors and the mass public cross shops Ford's to Infinitis and Kias to Benz.
If we are spending 60k, let's throw in the hellcats. Those are 60k aren't they? At least in MSRP.
Point is, some one is always going to put down more power in their Cars from factory. Whether its Ford or KIA or Benz or Alpha. The new MKZ is supposed to be 400hp/tq to the front wheels. That's pretty cool. Does it mean it will take a Q50 RS off the line or on a roll? Idk, maybe the power curve is all off and its top end only? Maybe the transmission is useless. Maybe it does 4.0 0-60 and spanks the RS Q50.
The STI has 305, it's had 305 for the last 7 years. And when does peak boost happen again on that car? How much lag does it have? Is it a reliable engine even after 7 years?
The 300hp VR is actually under rated from factory. But advertised numbers are the word of god around here. Heaven forbid they are lower than what the blue oval guys are advertising...
And who says you can't drift in a DAS in automatic? Have you tried it yet? I haven't but this whole knocking on the DAS, the 7 speed, the 300hp VR, the no 6 speed, the no LSD, etc is getting kind of old. We get it, you don't like certain things about the new products. Get over it, we are the 1%, they ain't gonna change it for us. Infiniti is still selling more and more cars ever month and every year. Guess they are doing something right since you know, they are increasing in sales. I mean that's what a business is supposed to do right? Increase sales.
If we are spending 60k, let's throw in the hellcats. Those are 60k aren't they? At least in MSRP.
Point is, some one is always going to put down more power in their Cars from factory. Whether its Ford or KIA or Benz or Alpha. The new MKZ is supposed to be 400hp/tq to the front wheels. That's pretty cool. Does it mean it will take a Q50 RS off the line or on a roll? Idk, maybe the power curve is all off and its top end only? Maybe the transmission is useless. Maybe it does 4.0 0-60 and spanks the RS Q50.
The STI has 305, it's had 305 for the last 7 years. And when does peak boost happen again on that car? How much lag does it have? Is it a reliable engine even after 7 years?
The 300hp VR is actually under rated from factory. But advertised numbers are the word of god around here. Heaven forbid they are lower than what the blue oval guys are advertising...
And who says you can't drift in a DAS in automatic? Have you tried it yet? I haven't but this whole knocking on the DAS, the 7 speed, the 300hp VR, the no 6 speed, the no LSD, etc is getting kind of old. We get it, you don't like certain things about the new products. Get over it, we are the 1%, they ain't gonna change it for us. Infiniti is still selling more and more cars ever month and every year. Guess they are doing something right since you know, they are increasing in sales. I mean that's what a business is supposed to do right? Increase sales.
09-05-2016, 05:20 PM
#3008
Nothing Infiniti does will make most of you guys happy. Lol. I accept that so I am not going to argue because most of it is pride and you'll never win against someones pride. If I get smoked by a Fusion... so be it. At the end of the day I still like MY car. There is ALWAYS going to be someone that will 1 up you. ESPECIALLY in a car industry so laden with technology. Powerful engines are not limited to sports cars anymore so we might as well all get used to to those few family sedans that just may be able to smoke you off the line in your upscale Infiniti.
I still stand by the VR being underrated in both non-RS and RS tune. Why else does the 300hp version lose nothing to the VQ with ~30 more HP.
The way I see it... Infiniti is focusing on their competitors... which they should. They offer slightly more powerful competitors to 3/4 Series for less $. That's where their focus should be.
I still stand by the VR being underrated in both non-RS and RS tune. Why else does the 300hp version lose nothing to the VQ with ~30 more HP.
The way I see it... Infiniti is focusing on their competitors... which they should. They offer slightly more powerful competitors to 3/4 Series for less $. That's where their focus should be.
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gill1606 (09-05-2016)
09-05-2016, 05:34 PM
#3010
Wow, this is a tough crowd to please. I'm sure the engineers over at Infiniti took into account what the guys over at ford were doing when they designed the new engines..... Wait, did I say Ford? Oh yeah because they are direct competitors and the mass public cross shops Ford's to Infinitis and Kias to Benz.
Infiniti could do it with a single turbo 4 or probably an NA 3.0L V6. no need for all the complexity and extra hardware. it would be like Dodge offering a lower model of the Charger with a supercharged V8 making 300hp.
Point is, some one is always going to put down more power in their Cars from factory.
And who says you can't drift in a DAS in automatic? Have you tried it yet? I haven't but this whole knocking on the DAS ...
in fact, the entire car felt numb. despite having the same engine as my G, if felt much slower like it was down 100hp or something. they must have really jacked up the transmission mapping (which i had in Sport mode the whole time) to make it feel so numb and slow. i'm hoping the new Q60 feels better ...
09-05-2016, 06:14 PM
#3011
Registered Member
what are you even talking about dude? DAS is not standard. And you can drift in an automatic, the only technique not available is the clutch kick, but all the other techniques should be the same. Plus you can still control shifting in these automatics with the manual shift mode and the paddle shifters provided.
Moreover, according to the motor trend channel the Q50/60 has a propensity to kick out the rear end into a drift when turning hard at speed; they were comparing the Q50S handling to a Lexus IS350 F-Sport which tended to understeer when turning hard at high speeds.
The tendency to drift during hard turns is probably due to the fact that the Q50's weight distribution is closer to the 50/50 ideal over the Lexus IS350 F-Sport. What are the Ford Fusion Sport and Ford Focus RS weight distributions?
Moreover, according to the motor trend channel the Q50/60 has a propensity to kick out the rear end into a drift when turning hard at speed; they were comparing the Q50S handling to a Lexus IS350 F-Sport which tended to understeer when turning hard at high speeds.
The tendency to drift during hard turns is probably due to the fact that the Q50's weight distribution is closer to the 50/50 ideal over the Lexus IS350 F-Sport. What are the Ford Fusion Sport and Ford Focus RS weight distributions?
Last edited by gill1606; 09-05-2016 at 06:21 PM.
09-05-2016, 06:16 PM
#3012
what are you even talking about dude? DAS is not standard. And you can drift in an automatic, the only technique not available is the clutch kick, but all the other techniques should be the same. Plus you can still control shifting in these automatics with the manual shift mode and the paddle shifters provided.
Moreover, the according to the motor trend channel the Q50/60 has a propensity to kick out the rear end into a drift when turning hard at speed; they were comparing the Q50 Red Sport's handling to an RC-F which tended to understeer when turning hard at high speeds.
The tendency to drift during hard turns is probably due to the fact that the cars weight distribution is closer to 50/50 ideal over the RC-F. What is the Ford Fusion Sport and Ford Focus RS weight distribution?
Moreover, the according to the motor trend channel the Q50/60 has a propensity to kick out the rear end into a drift when turning hard at speed; they were comparing the Q50 Red Sport's handling to an RC-F which tended to understeer when turning hard at high speeds.
The tendency to drift during hard turns is probably due to the fact that the cars weight distribution is closer to 50/50 ideal over the RC-F. What is the Ford Fusion Sport and Ford Focus RS weight distribution?
Try doing a figure 8 drift from a dead stop or low speed acceleration in an automatic. You can't!
That's why the GTR transmission has to be modified for competition drifting.
Last edited by InfinitiFreak; 09-05-2016 at 06:23 PM.
09-05-2016, 06:35 PM
#3013
Registered Member
i'm pretty sure the Focus RS will hand the porky Q60 its *** as far as acceleration and handling. it has AWD and torque vectoring. i'd love it if i didn't hate 4 door hatchbacks.
yes, that's a big "IF".
look at the wide variety of aftermarket items available to the last gen G37 that's been around since 2008 .... [crickets]
09-05-2016, 06:48 PM
#3014
Registered Member
@clutchfan, unless you intend to enter in some hardcore drift competitions, the car's almost ideal weight distribution makes it tend to drift on hard turning as opposed to understeer anyway.
I am guessing its the chassis's almost ideal weight distribution which allows for this propensity to kick out the rear end. i am curious about the suspension tuning and weight distributions of the Ford Focus RS and Ford Fusion Sport in comparison to the Q50 sport and red sport.
I am guessing its the chassis's almost ideal weight distribution which allows for this propensity to kick out the rear end. i am curious about the suspension tuning and weight distributions of the Ford Focus RS and Ford Fusion Sport in comparison to the Q50 sport and red sport.
Last edited by gill1606; 09-05-2016 at 07:08 PM.
09-05-2016, 07:19 PM
#3015
Registered Member
i did try the DAS on a loaner Q50 from the dealer ... its AWFUL. i was thinking that i might have liked it, but i DID NOT. sport mode was extremely twitchy to the point that it felt dangerous, and normal mode felt completely numb and unnatural. some say it takes some getting used to, but i could never get used to that weird feel.
in fact, the entire car felt numb. despite having the same engine as my G, if felt much slower like it was down 100hp or something. they must have really jacked up the transmission mapping (which i had in Sport mode the whole time) to make it feel so numb and slow. i'm hoping the new Q60 feels better ...
in fact, the entire car felt numb. despite having the same engine as my G, if felt much slower like it was down 100hp or something. they must have really jacked up the transmission mapping (which i had in Sport mode the whole time) to make it feel so numb and slow. i'm hoping the new Q60 feels better ...
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KAHBOOM (09-06-2016)