Infiniti Consumer Affairs - poor experience
04-02-2014, 02:32 PM
#76
^^^
Agreed. I think they should have taken care of it for you, especially since it's a known issue. I don't think it's realistic to expect the customer to track and follow every TSB that potentially comes out for their car. Yes you were OOW, but I think the right thing to do would have been to take care of it, regardless. They basically ensured that you won't be buying another car from that particular dealer in the future.
Agreed. I think they should have taken care of it for you, especially since it's a known issue. I don't think it's realistic to expect the customer to track and follow every TSB that potentially comes out for their car. Yes you were OOW, but I think the right thing to do would have been to take care of it, regardless. They basically ensured that you won't be buying another car from that particular dealer in the future.
We are seeing firsthand right now how manufacturers are as shady as dealerships (or more so). Toyota didn't give a rat's azz about peoples' safety with their accelerator sticking issue. People died while they denied anything was wrong, knowing full well the whole time something was wrong. $1.2 billion later and maybe they learned their lesson, maybe they didn't. Now GM is in front of congress making excuses as to why they didn't do recalls earlier and include all known affected vehicles with their ignition issues. This is apples and oranges becasue I don't see my car's problem as an issue that affects inherent safety. I'm not going to die a fiery death from them not fixing it, so it's not of the same magnitude at all IMO. But it's the same principle. And it's just bad business.
04-04-2014, 12:39 AM
#77
This.
We are seeing firsthand right now how manufacturers are as shady as dealerships (or more so). Toyota didn't give a rat's azz about peoples' safety with their accelerator sticking issue. People died while they denied anything was wrong, knowing full well the whole time something was wrong. $1.2 billion later and maybe they learned their lesson, maybe they didn't. Now GM is in front of congress making excuses as to why they didn't do recalls earlier and include all known affected vehicles with their ignition issues. This is apples and oranges becasue I don't see my car's problem as an issue that affects inherent safety. I'm not going to die a fiery death from them not fixing it, so it's not of the same magnitude at all IMO. But it's the same principle. And it's just bad business.
We are seeing firsthand right now how manufacturers are as shady as dealerships (or more so). Toyota didn't give a rat's azz about peoples' safety with their accelerator sticking issue. People died while they denied anything was wrong, knowing full well the whole time something was wrong. $1.2 billion later and maybe they learned their lesson, maybe they didn't. Now GM is in front of congress making excuses as to why they didn't do recalls earlier and include all known affected vehicles with their ignition issues. This is apples and oranges becasue I don't see my car's problem as an issue that affects inherent safety. I'm not going to die a fiery death from them not fixing it, so it's not of the same magnitude at all IMO. But it's the same principle. And it's just bad business.
How is the car coming along at the Nissan dealer?
04-11-2014, 05:12 PM
#78
UPDATE 4/11/2014:
Well her car has been repaired and is ready to be picked up. It's still costing me $3K to repair a $25 gasket. But at least at the Nissan dealership that price is also paying for a complete timing chain replacement as well. I guess that's a silver lining. The problem is that now I'm being told that the gasket by itself is not available as a separate part. Those Nissan engineers are geniuses I tell you! Got a $25 gasket in a tough to access location? Let's make it that much harder by not producing a replacement part (failure of this part does not seem uncommon) and instead require 8 more hours of labor and $400 more in parts to replace the entire rear timing cover.
Here's some photos:
The VQVHR37 engine (not mine) with the front timing cover removed. The gasket in question lies behind the plate in the center between the 2 timing gears.
Here's the plate removed on a Maxima engine.
Here's the exact same gasket gone bad on a Maxima. Nissan does not sell this gasket or cover plate by itself (so I'm told), the entire rear timing cover must be removed and replaced. This is labor intensive. To the tune of about $800 of labor ($1225 at Infiniti labor rates for the same exact work).
And here's what's costing me $3K. Notice how squeaky clean the inside of that timing cover is at 80K miles? No possible way to claim it was due to lack of maintenance or abuse (Thanks Penzoil Ultra!).
Well her car has been repaired and is ready to be picked up. It's still costing me $3K to repair a $25 gasket. But at least at the Nissan dealership that price is also paying for a complete timing chain replacement as well. I guess that's a silver lining. The problem is that now I'm being told that the gasket by itself is not available as a separate part. Those Nissan engineers are geniuses I tell you! Got a $25 gasket in a tough to access location? Let's make it that much harder by not producing a replacement part (failure of this part does not seem uncommon) and instead require 8 more hours of labor and $400 more in parts to replace the entire rear timing cover.
Here's some photos:
The VQVHR37 engine (not mine) with the front timing cover removed. The gasket in question lies behind the plate in the center between the 2 timing gears.
Here's the plate removed on a Maxima engine.
Here's the exact same gasket gone bad on a Maxima. Nissan does not sell this gasket or cover plate by itself (so I'm told), the entire rear timing cover must be removed and replaced. This is labor intensive. To the tune of about $800 of labor ($1225 at Infiniti labor rates for the same exact work).
And here's what's costing me $3K. Notice how squeaky clean the inside of that timing cover is at 80K miles? No possible way to claim it was due to lack of maintenance or abuse (Thanks Penzoil Ultra!).
Last edited by Black Betty; 04-13-2014 at 04:34 PM.
04-11-2014, 05:38 PM
#79
Jeremy, the gasket in question...where does the oil come from or where is it going to that is behind the plate? I'm guessing it's a journal passage that goes to the valvetrain? I've never seen a whole lot on the internals of the VQ37 and how it's designed.
Yeah, that's definitely a known issue for sure. I wonder what n!pplehead at Nissan spec'd that part...
It looks like a paper-type gasket and that journaled passage is under some pressure and the gasket isn't sufficient to hold it over time. Easy fix thought if Nissan added a little more surface area and designed the plate and mounting deck on the block to be grooved on both sides to accomodate a wire-type with high temp silicon RTV over it, ala how some head gaskets are done minus the silicon RTV bit.
How many miles did your wife's car have on it when this happened and what were the symptoms of the failed part? I know it may be back at the beginning of the thread but can't see that at the moment.
Money question of the day: Do they replace it with the same crappy @$$ gasket and does this issue persist after XX,XXX miles yet again?? Only to have to part with another $3k?
If I ever have to have this done, I would want to buy the gasket first and seal the entire thing in something to prevent oil soak into that paper. Maybe there's a way to do it with high-time RTV. It would no doubt be messy but a worthwhile endeavor if it prevents it from happening again down the road. Can't help the engineer side coming out here
Yeah, that's definitely a known issue for sure. I wonder what n!pplehead at Nissan spec'd that part...
It looks like a paper-type gasket and that journaled passage is under some pressure and the gasket isn't sufficient to hold it over time. Easy fix thought if Nissan added a little more surface area and designed the plate and mounting deck on the block to be grooved on both sides to accomodate a wire-type with high temp silicon RTV over it, ala how some head gaskets are done minus the silicon RTV bit.
How many miles did your wife's car have on it when this happened and what were the symptoms of the failed part? I know it may be back at the beginning of the thread but can't see that at the moment.
Money question of the day: Do they replace it with the same crappy @$$ gasket and does this issue persist after XX,XXX miles yet again?? Only to have to part with another $3k?
If I ever have to have this done, I would want to buy the gasket first and seal the entire thing in something to prevent oil soak into that paper. Maybe there's a way to do it with high-time RTV. It would no doubt be messy but a worthwhile endeavor if it prevents it from happening again down the road. Can't help the engineer side coming out here
Last edited by twin_snails; 04-11-2014 at 05:45 PM.
04-11-2014, 05:55 PM
#81
Holy crap. I'm just now beginning to realize the magnitude of this repair. So cam sprockets, idler gear and everything come off and then they can remove and replace the rear timing cover? Wonder what the cost of that part is. I read that this happened at 80K miles and it's got me pinchin' two's because I'm at 85.8K miles.
04-13-2014, 09:24 AM
#84
What I dont understand is, since the plate and gasket come attached to a new back cover only, why are they replacing the WHOLE rear cover instead of just transferring the plate and gasket from the new part to the one already on your engine?
Yes, its a "waste" of money on the whole rear cover, but the labor drops to almost nothing since there is really no reason to replace the WHOLE rear cover.
Yes, its a "waste" of money on the whole rear cover, but the labor drops to almost nothing since there is really no reason to replace the WHOLE rear cover.
04-13-2014, 11:54 AM
#85
What I dont understand is, since the plate and gasket come attached to a new back cover only, why are they replacing the WHOLE rear cover instead of just transferring the plate and gasket from the new part to the one already on your engine?
Yes, its a "waste" of money on the whole rear cover, but the labor drops to almost nothing since there is really no reason to replace the WHOLE rear cover.
Yes, its a "waste" of money on the whole rear cover, but the labor drops to almost nothing since there is really no reason to replace the WHOLE rear cover.
EDIT: Nissan part number 13533-JK21A is the oil gallery gasket that I was told is non existent requiring all the extra unnecessary expense involved in the repair. You can see what it looks like in post #78 of the thread. Nissan list price $25.22.
Last edited by Black Betty; 04-13-2014 at 04:29 PM.
04-13-2014, 11:47 PM
#89
Hey BB I know you are past the negotiating phase because the repairs are done out of pocket, but I thought I would share a quick story.
Bought a Dodge truck when they still offered lifetime powertrain warranty. I got all the services major & minor maintenance at Dodge dealers and occasionally I would DIY some of the comments they put (ie: brake pads, spark plugs, low fluids, etc). The tranny started feeling rough so I brought the truck in for inspection under warranty. Dealer told me my lifetime warranty expired (7 months) because I didn't do the mandatory 5 year inspection. I was never made aware of such requirement by Dodge or the dealer. I called Consumer Affair and politely complained I never received any notices. They told they are not required to send anything to me. My first reaction was.. "I'm gonna get screwed by stupid Dodge." I repeated myself over and over that ALL my routine maintenance and services were done at Dodge dealers and they told me they will open a case and would take up to 5 business days for response but don't give high hopes. Merely 3 hours later I got a call back saying they will reinstate my lifetime warranty BECAUSE I brought the truck in for service on the month my mandatory inspection was due.
I think the lesson is almost like earning credits. Although you have money to pay cash for a car, you can only rise your credit score by letting them earn the interests. A LOT of the damn services could have easily be done DIY, but because I wanted to be in good standing with Dodge, I have to hand them money here and there. Dodge could have easily brushed me off but because I got "credit", they gave me goodwill.
Bought a Dodge truck when they still offered lifetime powertrain warranty. I got all the services major & minor maintenance at Dodge dealers and occasionally I would DIY some of the comments they put (ie: brake pads, spark plugs, low fluids, etc). The tranny started feeling rough so I brought the truck in for inspection under warranty. Dealer told me my lifetime warranty expired (7 months) because I didn't do the mandatory 5 year inspection. I was never made aware of such requirement by Dodge or the dealer. I called Consumer Affair and politely complained I never received any notices. They told they are not required to send anything to me. My first reaction was.. "I'm gonna get screwed by stupid Dodge." I repeated myself over and over that ALL my routine maintenance and services were done at Dodge dealers and they told me they will open a case and would take up to 5 business days for response but don't give high hopes. Merely 3 hours later I got a call back saying they will reinstate my lifetime warranty BECAUSE I brought the truck in for service on the month my mandatory inspection was due.
I think the lesson is almost like earning credits. Although you have money to pay cash for a car, you can only rise your credit score by letting them earn the interests. A LOT of the damn services could have easily be done DIY, but because I wanted to be in good standing with Dodge, I have to hand them money here and there. Dodge could have easily brushed me off but because I got "credit", they gave me goodwill.
04-14-2014, 12:17 AM
#90
Thanks for the story but I'm beyond the whole customer goodwill from Infiniti phase. And I'm not going to take future vehicles into the dealership for routine maintenance because that's not what I do. I enjoy working on and maintaining my vehicles. I'm not going to forego that for the sake of warranty. And I shouldn't have to.
I'm at the point of the service department I took it to blatantly lying to me about what was required to perform the repair. It's like a doctor amputating an entire leg because a toe coujdnt be saved. Or needing to replace an oil drain plug and being told that I can't purchase just the plug by itself, I'll need to buy and replace the entire lower oil pan with the plug included to fix the problem.
I'm at the point of the service department I took it to blatantly lying to me about what was required to perform the repair. It's like a doctor amputating an entire leg because a toe coujdnt be saved. Or needing to replace an oil drain plug and being told that I can't purchase just the plug by itself, I'll need to buy and replace the entire lower oil pan with the plug included to fix the problem.