What if...
The following 2 users liked this post by DeepHouseGuy:
IPL 370GT (05-07-2013),
Rad_Slinger (05-07-2013)
05-07-2013, 01:27 PM
#17
I think what most who cling to manual transmissions will say is that it's not the speed of changing gears or the better fuel mileage of a manual transmission that is the draw. Good automatics exceed them in both categories now. It's the "engagement' or "driver input" or "driving experience" that they prefer. I get that. Up to a point. I like it too. But I prefer a superior product and performance more than I need to have something to keep my right hand busy. A good DCT will make me forget all about rowing my own.
05-07-2013, 01:30 PM
#18
Registered User
Only one way
The only way I would stay is if we got a duel clutch with launch control like Porsche. That would put our cars in the mid 4 second range stock.
05-07-2013, 10:03 PM
#20
You guys can rationalize it all you want, and I agree with what you're saying (in terms of technological progress being good). I'm not commited to a manual for life, but if I'm giving it up, I want something that's actually better. You guys are talking as though the Q50 is going to be a dual clutch setup, but it's not. The 7AT is worse in almost every way than the 6MT. The shifts are muddy (I just drove in a 2013 loner the other day), there is still at least 10 percent WHP power-loss due to the fluid friction in the torque converter (locking doesn't fix this), manual shifts are slow, and the gearbox is kind of dumb (hunts for gears).
So yes, give me progress, I wouldn't complain so much of the only transmission was the one from the GTR, but it's not. They are dropping an arguably superior transmission because it was a lower volume part. I see the business sense, but don't try to dress it up as a technological advance.
So yes, give me progress, I wouldn't complain so much of the only transmission was the one from the GTR, but it's not. They are dropping an arguably superior transmission because it was a lower volume part. I see the business sense, but don't try to dress it up as a technological advance.
05-07-2013, 10:41 PM
#21
You guys can rationalize it all you want, and I agree with what you're saying (in terms of technological progress being good). I'm not commited to a manual for life, but if I'm giving it up, I want something that's actually better. You guys are talking as though the Q50 is going to be a dual clutch setup, but it's not. The 7AT is worse in almost every way than the 6MT. The shifts are muddy (I just drove in a 2013 loner the other day), there is still at least 10 percent WHP power-loss due to the fluid friction in the torque converter (locking doesn't fix this), manual shifts are slow, and the gearbox is kind of dumb (hunts for gears).
So yes, give me progress, I wouldn't complain so much of the only transmission was the one from the GTR, but it's not. They are dropping an arguably superior transmission because it was a lower volume part. I see the business sense, but don't try to dress it up as a technological advance.
So yes, give me progress, I wouldn't complain so much of the only transmission was the one from the GTR, but it's not. They are dropping an arguably superior transmission because it was a lower volume part. I see the business sense, but don't try to dress it up as a technological advance.
Not sure what "loaner" model you drove. The word "loaner" says enough!
After test driving 7 different G37's. I can honestly tell you the tune is different in the models. The IPL shifted faster and more aggressive than the S. I could feel the lag associated with the S. The IPL shifted very quickly during spirited driving and more so in DS mode. The (tune) is a big factor.
"I wouldn't complain so much of the only transmission was the one from the GTR, but it's not"
A manual transmission would NEVER shift faster than the R35 borg gr6 racing trans.
I'm coming from a two manual 350z's BTW.
No one is trying to dress it up! The auto trans continues to improve each year. That's a fact! If you follow the industry closely you'll see the old school manual is becoming obsolete. That's across the board.
Last edited by IPL 370GT; 05-07-2013 at 10:54 PM.
05-07-2013, 11:19 PM
#22
I agree with you bud.. Im coming from 3 Manual 350zs as well, one which I still have when I get an itch to drive a Manual sports car. I love my 7at IPL though alot of people complain about the auto trans of this car but for what its worth I think its a good transmission. It is confused at times but gets the job done and does whatever you ask it to. If anyone is interested in buying a 350z go to this link LOL.
Cars for Sale: 2003 Nissan 350Z Track in Walnut, CA 91789: Coupe Details - 342295525 - AutoTrader.com
Cars for Sale: 2003 Nissan 350Z Track in Walnut, CA 91789: Coupe Details - 342295525 - AutoTrader.com
haha what? 10 percent WHP loss due to fluid friction in the torque converter??
Not sure what "loaner" model you drove. The word "loaner" says enough!
After test driving 7 different G37's. I can honestly tell you the tune is different in the models. The IPL shifted faster and more aggressive than the S. I could feel the lag associated with the S. The IPL shifted very quickly during spirited driving and more so in DS mode. The (tune) is a big factor.
"I wouldn't complain so much of the only transmission was the one from the GTR, but it's not"
A manual transmission would NEVER shift faster than the R35 borg gr6 racing trans.
I'm coming from a two manual 350z's BTW.
No one is trying to dress it up! The auto trans continues to improve each year. That's a fact! If you follow the industry closely you'll see the old school manual is becoming obsolete. That's across the board.
Not sure what "loaner" model you drove. The word "loaner" says enough!
After test driving 7 different G37's. I can honestly tell you the tune is different in the models. The IPL shifted faster and more aggressive than the S. I could feel the lag associated with the S. The IPL shifted very quickly during spirited driving and more so in DS mode. The (tune) is a big factor.
"I wouldn't complain so much of the only transmission was the one from the GTR, but it's not"
A manual transmission would NEVER shift faster than the R35 borg gr6 racing trans.
I'm coming from a two manual 350z's BTW.
No one is trying to dress it up! The auto trans continues to improve each year. That's a fact! If you follow the industry closely you'll see the old school manual is becoming obsolete. That's across the board.
05-07-2013, 11:59 PM
#25
Nobody is comparing the Infiniti AT to the transmissions in exotics. You're missing the point. Which is that if true no holds barred performance based sports cars are dumping their MTs right and left, an entry level grand touring sedan shouldn't expect to keep them.
Clearly a lot of owners on this forum don't really understand what the car they have is supposed to be. I think some people's expectation of what the car is, what it should be, and what that should cost are far out of touch with reality.
Clearly a lot of owners on this forum don't really understand what the car they have is supposed to be. I think some people's expectation of what the car is, what it should be, and what that should cost are far out of touch with reality.
05-08-2013, 12:10 AM
#26
Nobody is comparing the Infiniti AT to the transmissions in exotics. You're missing the point. Which is that if true no holds barred performance based sports cars are dumping their MTs right and left, an entry level grand touring sedan shouldn't expect to keep them.
Clearly a lot of owners on this forum don't really understand what the car they have is supposed to be. I think some people's expectation of what the car is, what it should be, and what that should cost are far out of touch with reality.
Clearly a lot of owners on this forum don't really understand what the car they have is supposed to be. I think some people's expectation of what the car is, what it should be, and what that should cost are far out of touch with reality.
That transmission is the only reason I got a 2012 6MT over an IPL. I wanted the red leather. I did not want Infinitis AT so I passed on the entire car.
If the coupe has this same slugish transmission ill pass too.
Last edited by RYs06MT; 05-08-2013 at 12:17 AM.
05-08-2013, 12:29 AM
#27
haha what? 10 percent WHP loss due to fluid friction in the torque converter??
Not sure what "loaner" model you drove. The word "loaner" says enough!
After test driving 7 different G37's. I can honestly tell you the tune is different in the models. The IPL shifted faster and more aggressive than the S. I could feel the lag associated with the S. The IPL shifted very quickly during spirited driving and more so in DS mode. The (tune) is a big factor.
"I wouldn't complain so much of the only transmission was the one from the GTR, but it's not"
A manual transmission would NEVER shift faster than the R35 borg gr6 racing trans.
I'm coming from a two manual 350z's BTW.
No one is trying to dress it up! The auto trans continues to improve each year. That's a fact! If you follow the industry closely you'll see the old school manual is becoming obsolete. That's across the board.
Not sure what "loaner" model you drove. The word "loaner" says enough!
After test driving 7 different G37's. I can honestly tell you the tune is different in the models. The IPL shifted faster and more aggressive than the S. I could feel the lag associated with the S. The IPL shifted very quickly during spirited driving and more so in DS mode. The (tune) is a big factor.
"I wouldn't complain so much of the only transmission was the one from the GTR, but it's not"
A manual transmission would NEVER shift faster than the R35 borg gr6 racing trans.
I'm coming from a two manual 350z's BTW.
No one is trying to dress it up! The auto trans continues to improve each year. That's a fact! If you follow the industry closely you'll see the old school manual is becoming obsolete. That's across the board.
In particular:
"A portion of the input power is dissipated in the transmission fluid inside the chamber. The calculations for the power loss are beyond the scope of this explanation and will be referenced as P(loss).
P(loss) = f(friction, viscous effects, other effects….)"
A torque converter is basically a sealed container filled with oil and two "fans" pointed at each other. Modern ones lock in most gears so the two sides turn at the same rate (increases efficiency). Nevertheless, rotating both sides in the transmission fluid is not efficient and wastes a significant amount of power compared to a clutch.
I'm not saying no automatic shifts faster than a manual (I'm sure some do, but it sure as hell isn't the 7AT Infiniti makes). Furthermore, a conventional auto will ALWAYS result in less WHP than a manual due to the above. A proper dual clutch setup is obviously a different story (or an automated single clutch manual... but those have tended to be pretty bad for normal driving).
I don't really get your comment about unrealistic expectations. BMW has a DCT, so does Audi, so does VW.... unless you mean to imply that Infiniti's biggest rival is Volvo... it's not really unrealistic to expect some newer transmission tech.
Edit: And about my "wouldn't complain so much" comment. I would obviously understand if the only transmission was a DCT and I would never in a million years claim that any manual can shift as fast as a DCT, but shifting your own gears is still fun. The g37 isn't an end all be all hypercar like the GTR. If Infiniti went with a DCT, I would still be sad (though not as sad, and I would understand) to see the 6MT go, even if it made sense. But again, this is a little off topic as it isn't the case at all. The 7AT is in no way an upgrade over the 6MT, technologically, fun wise, or performance wise (though I do understand the convenience).
Their dropping it for something new/better. In this case Infiniti is not. I understand clearly. If they replaced it with something even as good as BMW's SMG id be happy. But their not.
That transmission is the only reason I got a 2012 6MT over an IPL. I wanted the red leather. I did not want Infinitis AT so I passed on the entire car.
If the coupe has this same slugish transmission ill pass too.
That transmission is the only reason I got a 2012 6MT over an IPL. I wanted the red leather. I did not want Infinitis AT so I passed on the entire car.
If the coupe has this same slugish transmission ill pass too.
Nobody is comparing the Infiniti AT to the transmissions in exotics. You're missing the point. Which is that if true no holds barred performance based sports cars are dumping their MTs right and left, an entry level grand touring sedan shouldn't expect to keep them.
Clearly a lot of owners on this forum don't really understand what the car they have is supposed to be. I think some people's expectation of what the car is, what it should be, and what that should cost are far out of touch with reality.
Clearly a lot of owners on this forum don't really understand what the car they have is supposed to be. I think some people's expectation of what the car is, what it should be, and what that should cost are far out of touch with reality.
Last edited by Varjo; 05-08-2013 at 01:10 AM.
05-08-2013, 12:30 AM
#28
Although I prefer MT to AT in general, I don't really care if an AT can shift faster or more efficiently than I can. To me, driving MT is all about having fun and being in control.
To answer the OP's question, I don't care if the Q60 is MT or not as I plan on driving my G37s into the ground.
To answer the OP's question, I don't care if the Q60 is MT or not as I plan on driving my G37s into the ground.
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VinnysInfiniti (02-27-2015)
05-08-2013, 01:41 AM
#29
Administrator
