G37 Dyno Up on Automobilemag.com 50+ HP
05-21-2007, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by skaterbasist
1) Wherever the "$10k", either way, performance isnt everything in a car.
2) His auto sedan will walk your G, unless your forced induction or equally modified.
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2) His auto sedan will walk your G, unless your forced induction or equally modified.
.
0.2 seconds is equivalent to 30' advantage at the finish line. That's 2 car lengths. In real life, that addiitonal acceleration is insignificant and most likely untraceable. Example: Faster jump off the line. If you've ever been to the track, the clock doesn't start until you go. R/T vary wildly from person to person. The 0.2 seconds can easily be gained there.
Plus, performance isn't ALL about straight lines - driver feel, handling, sound, style, etc are all part of the overall experience of the car. This is where the G37 will excel - it isn't bad at anything and will do alot of things well.
05-21-2007, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Hypnoz
You obviously haven't dealt with TT setups before. BMW reliability has always been worse than infiniti. The oil consumption issue is the largest issue nissan has had to deal with in some time.
Why would you make an assumption that they redesign the VQ to get rid of the oil consumption issue? That is just stupid. They have to redesign it due to COMPETITION. Nothing more.
This isn't a torque vs hp debate. Look at the hp curve of the G37. When you shift the g37 it will be at the 335's peak hp and raise from there. When you shift the 335, it will be at it's peak hp and drop from there. Around town the 335 will be/feel faster, I don't argue that though.
Why would you make an assumption that they redesign the VQ to get rid of the oil consumption issue? That is just stupid. They have to redesign it due to COMPETITION. Nothing more.
This isn't a torque vs hp debate. Look at the hp curve of the G37. When you shift the g37 it will be at the 335's peak hp and raise from there. When you shift the 335, it will be at it's peak hp and drop from there. Around town the 335 will be/feel faster, I don't argue that though.
I put together a dummy spreadsheet to see how much engine power (not taking into account any multiplication due to gearing) each car puts down (using the graphs in this thread - eyeballed) versus mph. Basically, you have this:
1st gear - both cars go to about the same speed (about 3 mph off) and the BMW has the advantage up to about 6k rpm, with the G pulling away significantly power-wise afetr that. In 2nd gear, the G will shift to about 4,600 rpm, and the BMW about 4,150 rpm. In that gear, the BMW has the horsepower advantage up to about 60 mph and then the G has the advantage until 70 mph, where both cars would shift. The BMW shifts to 4,600 rpm, and the G37 at 5,250. The BMW has the advantage up to about 86 mph,. and then the G has the advantage from there up to about 104 mph (the BMW shift at 107).
Not 100% accurate but I was just trying to paint a picture of what was happening.
05-21-2007, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Hate to break it to guys that think mods for the VQ37HR are going to match up with the turbo 335I. Vishnu already got this engine to put down 331hp/350ft lbs torque at the wheels.
http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...i_dynamometer/
http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...i_dynamometer/
Once you start modding the 335i, the $ factor gap btwn that and the G just gets crazy. Personally, i'd take the exterior and interior
look and technology... and price, of the G37 over 335i's slightly better straight line performance.
05-21-2007, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by FAST1
The performance of any car is dependent upon its torque power band range, its weight, and its gearing. If the weight of the G37 and 335 are similar and if the two cars are geared the same, the torque graphs that are presented would indicate that the 335 would pull on the G until about 6K RPM at which time the G would have the edge until red line. Based on the graphs I would expect that the 335 would have an edge, but not by more than a couple of tenths in the 1/4. In other words no big deal, and certainly close enough where the skill of the driver would determine the winner in the 1/4.
Lots of people are in love with the appearance of the 3 series, but to me they look kind of bland. So I would have to say the G has the edge in the looks department. Based on history, the 335 will probably outhandle the G, but of course the G will sticker for at least $5K less than the 335.
So all in all when everything thing is considered you have two cars that are about evenly matched and you can't go wrong with either selection.
Lots of people are in love with the appearance of the 3 series, but to me they look kind of bland. So I would have to say the G has the edge in the looks department. Based on history, the 335 will probably outhandle the G, but of course the G will sticker for at least $5K less than the 335.
So all in all when everything thing is considered you have two cars that are about evenly matched and you can't go wrong with either selection.
Assuming these specs are right its probably more accurate to say the 335 would need to have a weaker driver than the G for the Bimmer to lose. On the flip side the early mag reports seem to suggest the 37 will outhandle the 335.
I agree with what you've said about the looks department and that the cars overall will likely be pretty evenly matched. We'll wait to see the sticker on the 37 but it will probably will be something close to $5K less than the BMW.
05-21-2007, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by jnmunsey
Nobody had responded to my question about the Ram Air technology in the new G37. Would this not affect power ratings when moving compared to the dyno?
Originally Posted by Lip
Wow, that's your opinion. I'm no BMW fanboy but, the interior is nicer than anything in Infiniti's stable.....
05-21-2007, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Lip
Wow, that's your opinion. I'm no BMW fanboy but, the interior is nicer than anything in Infiniti's stable. In terms of design, comfort, feel the Bimmer has the edge over the current sedan, and the coupe is the same. The iDrive may be a tad over the top, though not nearly as bad as Car&Driver would have you believe.
I don't know, I came away pretty impressed with the Bimmer. If you want something to smoke that car, just get the C6 Vette and you'll save $10 grand.
Now with respect to the dyno. Why do they say that the VQ35DE Rev-up has a 6600-rpm fuel cutoff?
I don't know, I came away pretty impressed with the Bimmer. If you want something to smoke that car, just get the C6 Vette and you'll save $10 grand.
Now with respect to the dyno. Why do they say that the VQ35DE Rev-up has a 6600-rpm fuel cutoff?
05-21-2007, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by muscarel
I think what he was trying to say was that if .2 seconds in the 1/4 mile really is THAT important to you, why would you drive a G35 sedan with a bunch of mods to run a 13.7? There are PLENTY of cars that are better drag cars. And not necessarily more expensive either (especially afetr considering all the money you put toward modifications).
0.2 seconds is equivalent to 30' advantage at the finish line. That's 2 car lengths. In real life, that addiitonal acceleration is insignificant and most likely untraceable. Example: Faster jump off the line. If you've ever been to the track, the clock doesn't start until you go. R/T vary wildly from person to person. The 0.2 seconds can easily be gained there.
Plus, performance isn't ALL about straight lines - driver feel, handling, sound, style, etc are all part of the overall experience of the car. This is where the G37 will excel - it isn't bad at anything and will do alot of things well.
0.2 seconds is equivalent to 30' advantage at the finish line. That's 2 car lengths. In real life, that addiitonal acceleration is insignificant and most likely untraceable. Example: Faster jump off the line. If you've ever been to the track, the clock doesn't start until you go. R/T vary wildly from person to person. The 0.2 seconds can easily be gained there.
Plus, performance isn't ALL about straight lines - driver feel, handling, sound, style, etc are all part of the overall experience of the car. This is where the G37 will excel - it isn't bad at anything and will do alot of things well.
A G35 is not a drag car, and if someone is planning to buy it as such, they are wasting their money. Get a Neon SRT-4 and mod the crap out of if straight-line acceleration is that important to you. If the 335i makes you feel better behind the wheel, by all means buy it or any other car that does. But if you are buying it purely for .2 seconds in the quarter mile, you have issues.
05-21-2007, 10:43 AM
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At the end of the day, many more buyers will not give 2 cents to all the tech talk we are discussing here, the .X seconds difference, the response from roll on power vs. street light to street light timing, the surge of Torque after a specific RPM... and like the Red Canadian (GC) said a while back, it is more about the soul you get from the car. (just a little joke on your screen name Shane, no harm meant Cannuck)
Most car buyers choose their car first from how a car looks. Still today the most important buying decision is looks. All the marketing states this. How a car does in 0 to 60 is more important to a small percentage of car buyers. I would venture that out of over 40,000 members on this board, the vast majority have not and will not "track" a car, or even for that matter hit the timed drag strips for a single day of fun, let alone what some of the car fanatics here do in a weekend!
What I am saying is that, in my opinion, Infiniti set out to grow the sales of their brand and this class by aiming directly at the segment leaders. For less money, they have made a Japanese sports car take a real bite out of German car sales in the last 4 years. And that was in Gen 1.
Today they are in the middle of launching the redesigns again at segment leaders. How many years now has the 3 series come in first in car comparaision again and again? For what they set out to do, more car, less cost the their rivals, more power, more refinement, better quality then Gen 1, and all while keeping the same same segment of buyers and even growing that to a larger scale, they hit the nail on the head. This car is not even out yet, and I feel confident from all that I have seen and read in the industry press that they have made a far superior car to Gen 1, and gotten that much closer to their competition, again while keeping in mind they are not BMW, MB, or Audi. That is why you can get this much car for less a price. If they can steal buyers with this formula, as they have proven in the past, then the final question is not, NOT, who is faster to 60, or best in the twisties, its all about sales and winning over more customers.
Hats off Infiniti, good job, great car. I am a test drive away from putting this in front of the 335 on my wish list. Hopefully in the next 6 months, I can also put it in my garage.
Most car buyers choose their car first from how a car looks. Still today the most important buying decision is looks. All the marketing states this. How a car does in 0 to 60 is more important to a small percentage of car buyers. I would venture that out of over 40,000 members on this board, the vast majority have not and will not "track" a car, or even for that matter hit the timed drag strips for a single day of fun, let alone what some of the car fanatics here do in a weekend!
What I am saying is that, in my opinion, Infiniti set out to grow the sales of their brand and this class by aiming directly at the segment leaders. For less money, they have made a Japanese sports car take a real bite out of German car sales in the last 4 years. And that was in Gen 1.
Today they are in the middle of launching the redesigns again at segment leaders. How many years now has the 3 series come in first in car comparaision again and again? For what they set out to do, more car, less cost the their rivals, more power, more refinement, better quality then Gen 1, and all while keeping the same same segment of buyers and even growing that to a larger scale, they hit the nail on the head. This car is not even out yet, and I feel confident from all that I have seen and read in the industry press that they have made a far superior car to Gen 1, and gotten that much closer to their competition, again while keeping in mind they are not BMW, MB, or Audi. That is why you can get this much car for less a price. If they can steal buyers with this formula, as they have proven in the past, then the final question is not, NOT, who is faster to 60, or best in the twisties, its all about sales and winning over more customers.
Hats off Infiniti, good job, great car. I am a test drive away from putting this in front of the 335 on my wish list. Hopefully in the next 6 months, I can also put it in my garage.
05-21-2007, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by G-WannaBe
At the end of the day, many more buyers will not give 2 cents to all the tech talk we are discussing here, the .X seconds difference, the response from roll on power vs. street light to street light timing, the surge of Torque after a specific RPM... and like the Red Canadian (GC) said a while back, it is more about the soul you get from the car. (just a little joke on your screen name Shane, no harm meant Cannuck)
Most car buyers choose their car first from how a car looks. Still today the most important buying decision is looks. All the marketing states this. How a car does in 0 to 60 is more important to a small percentage of car buyers. I would venture that out of over 40,000 members on this board, the vast majority have not and will not "track" a car, or even for that matter hit the timed drag strips for a single day of fun, let alone what some of the car fanatics here do in a weekend!
What I am saying is that, in my opinion, Infiniti set out to grow the sales of their brand and this class by aiming directly at the segment leaders. For less money, they have made a Japanese sports car take a real bite out of German car sales in the last 4 years. And that was in Gen 1.
Today they are in the middle of launching the redesigns again at segment leaders. How many years now has the 3 series come in first in car comparaision again and again? For what they set out to do, more car, less cost the their rivals, more power, more refinement, better quality then Gen 1, and all while keeping the same same segment of buyers and even growing that to a larger scale, they hit the nail on the head. This car is not even out yet, and I feel confident from all that I have seen and read in the industry press that they have made a far superior car to Gen 1, and gotten that much closer to their competition, again while keeping in mind they are not BMW, MB, or Audi. That is why you can get this much car for less a price. If they can steal buyers with this formula, as they have proven in the past, then the final question is not, NOT, who is faster to 60, or best in the twisties, its all about sales and winning over more customers.
Hats off Infiniti, good job, great car. I am a test drive away from putting this in front of the 335 on my wish list. Hopefully in the next 6 months, I can also put it in my garage.
Most car buyers choose their car first from how a car looks. Still today the most important buying decision is looks. All the marketing states this. How a car does in 0 to 60 is more important to a small percentage of car buyers. I would venture that out of over 40,000 members on this board, the vast majority have not and will not "track" a car, or even for that matter hit the timed drag strips for a single day of fun, let alone what some of the car fanatics here do in a weekend!
What I am saying is that, in my opinion, Infiniti set out to grow the sales of their brand and this class by aiming directly at the segment leaders. For less money, they have made a Japanese sports car take a real bite out of German car sales in the last 4 years. And that was in Gen 1.
Today they are in the middle of launching the redesigns again at segment leaders. How many years now has the 3 series come in first in car comparaision again and again? For what they set out to do, more car, less cost the their rivals, more power, more refinement, better quality then Gen 1, and all while keeping the same same segment of buyers and even growing that to a larger scale, they hit the nail on the head. This car is not even out yet, and I feel confident from all that I have seen and read in the industry press that they have made a far superior car to Gen 1, and gotten that much closer to their competition, again while keeping in mind they are not BMW, MB, or Audi. That is why you can get this much car for less a price. If they can steal buyers with this formula, as they have proven in the past, then the final question is not, NOT, who is faster to 60, or best in the twisties, its all about sales and winning over more customers.
Hats off Infiniti, good job, great car. I am a test drive away from putting this in front of the 335 on my wish list. Hopefully in the next 6 months, I can also put it in my garage.
05-21-2007, 11:52 AM
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The only decent mod I've seen in the works is the TS ecu flash in the works. One will be hard pressed to find really good mods for this engine now. Infiniti basicly took all the previous mods we do and intergrated them to some extent to this motor.
You have to also remember, the VQ now has almost every techno trick done and is near the end of it's developemental life. I think direct injection might be next for another 15-20% increase in power and that's it.
Even BMW reached the practial limit of it's straight 6 na motor. I think it topped out at about 330hp with the 3.2 M3 na motor. Now the M3s are using the na V8 at around 400hp.
The new 335I TT motor is brand new, is only 3.0 liters and will enjoy tons of boost related mod potential.
You have to also remember, the VQ now has almost every techno trick done and is near the end of it's developemental life. I think direct injection might be next for another 15-20% increase in power and that's it.
Even BMW reached the practial limit of it's straight 6 na motor. I think it topped out at about 330hp with the 3.2 M3 na motor. Now the M3s are using the na V8 at around 400hp.
The new 335I TT motor is brand new, is only 3.0 liters and will enjoy tons of boost related mod potential.
Originally Posted by Ahujadaddy
Mods for VQ37HR will put it past a stock 335i and still have $$ left in the bank. I think that's what most are trying to say here.
Once you start modding the 335i, the $ factor gap btwn that and the G just gets crazy. Personally, i'd take the exterior and interior
look and technology... and price, of the G37 over 335i's slightly better straight line performance.
Once you start modding the 335i, the $ factor gap btwn that and the G just gets crazy. Personally, i'd take the exterior and interior
look and technology... and price, of the G37 over 335i's slightly better straight line performance.
Last edited by Jeff92se; 05-21-2007 at 01:19 PM.
05-21-2007, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ElixXxeR
An amazing post. I couldn't agree more.
A G35 is not a drag car, and if someone is planning to buy it as such, they are wasting their money. Get a Neon SRT-4 and mod the crap out of if straight-line acceleration is that important to you. If the 335i makes you feel better behind the wheel, by all means buy it or any other car that does. But if you are buying it purely for .2 seconds in the quarter mile, you have issues.
A G35 is not a drag car, and if someone is planning to buy it as such, they are wasting their money. Get a Neon SRT-4 and mod the crap out of if straight-line acceleration is that important to you. If the 335i makes you feel better behind the wheel, by all means buy it or any other car that does. But if you are buying it purely for .2 seconds in the quarter mile, you have issues.
I had no interest in drag racing, until I went one day with a local club. Then I was hooked. I had already planned to start modding my car, so the intent wasn't to mod to improve 1/4 times. But that's what eventually happened.
I don't have enough money to build a dedicated track car, and I wasn't willing to ditch my car, so new, just to get a better 1/4 car. So I made the best of the situation.
I think it's very presumptuous of you to make your previous statement.
05-21-2007, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
One will be hard pressed to find really good mods for this engine now. Infiniti basicly took all the previous mods we do and intergrated them to some extent to this motor.
You have to also remember, the VQ now has almost every techno trick done and is near it's developemental life. I think direct injection might be next for another 15-20% increase in power and that's it.
You have to also remember, the VQ now has almost every techno trick done and is near it's developemental life. I think direct injection might be next for another 15-20% increase in power and that's it.
Think of it:VVEL, 11:1 CR, and dual intakes with a pseudo-ram air effect--other than the aforementioned direct injection, what else can Nissan/Infiniti do to get more out of the VQ and STILL keep it reliable? I don't see how aftermarket companies will be able to squeeze any worthwhile gains out of it; at least not without major $$$$$.
05-21-2007, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by G-WannaBe
Most car buyers choose their car first from how a car looks. Still today the most important buying decision is looks. All the marketing states this.
For a car like the g35 coupe, looks are very important. But for enthusiasts, they take a back seat to performance.
05-21-2007, 01:23 PM
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Usually displacement and rpm. But this thing is already near 4 liters. It's hard to make a big motor rev anymore.
If they don't go DI (which I think they will), Infiniti/Nissan is going to have to start using their V8 or go with turbo power.
Hopefully the GTR will serve as a base from which detuned versions of it's engine will trickle down to other models. I mean it's still a VQ, in theory, it should fit right into most current model V6 engine bays without too much fuss. One can hope!
If they don't go DI (which I think they will), Infiniti/Nissan is going to have to start using their V8 or go with turbo power.
Hopefully the GTR will serve as a base from which detuned versions of it's engine will trickle down to other models. I mean it's still a VQ, in theory, it should fit right into most current model V6 engine bays without too much fuss. One can hope!
Originally Posted by Mr_Ryte
Agreed.
Think of it:VVEL, 11:1 CR, and dual intakes with a pseudo-ram air effect--other than the aforementioned direct injection, what else can Nissan/Infiniti do to get more out of the VQ and STILL keep it reliable? I don't see how aftermarket companies will be able to squeeze any worthwhile gains out of it; at least not without major $$$$$.
Think of it:VVEL, 11:1 CR, and dual intakes with a pseudo-ram air effect--other than the aforementioned direct injection, what else can Nissan/Infiniti do to get more out of the VQ and STILL keep it reliable? I don't see how aftermarket companies will be able to squeeze any worthwhile gains out of it; at least not without major $$$$$.
05-21-2007, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by trey.hutcheson
For a car like the g35 coupe, looks are very important. But for enthusiasts, they take a back seat to performance.
But I am speaking in general, as much as people love driving fast, the majority are not likely to be "focused enthusiasts" who want to gain a few tenths, max the apex on corners driving to work, or chase down that german car ahead of them to prove a point. Most of us posting here probably will do at least 2 of the 3, but I again I am speaking in very general terms about the total population of drivers/G owners.