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Just another thread to bring attention to this problem since it can happen however if caught it can save you thousands in money and headaches and silicone.
The Variable Timing Control phaser uses a ring to let the ECM know of their position, this ring is a heated/pressed ring that goes onto the phaser.
Any VQ37 driven hard for more than 5 straight minutes without an oil cooler will see oil temperatures above the 230F mark. For those who have done 30+ minutes you probably saw oil in the 275F or higher. This is a fact, if you'd like to check your temperatures Torque Pro + advanced Infiniti PID will show you under VVT oil temp you actual engine oil temperatures.
So add this issue to failing gasket that will give intermittent oil pressure to these phasers making them bounce between advanced and retarded and you now have a possible 3rd problem depending on how bad the first two got.
Usually the ECM can differentiate between a slipped ring and gallery gasket but this is not always the case. Some will jump into conclusions the minute they see anything VTC related because of the novel gasket. A few will spend thousands chasing a gallery issue to find out it was a ring issue or both.
The main issue I've found is that the recommended approach is to replace the entire phaser when you get the code however as stated before you don't always get the code since there is always some slack that is accounted for.
Where I would need additional help is in the pictorial aspect.
Here is a picture from Jim Wolfe where he shows what it looks like
Here is a picture that I took comparing a slipped ring VS a brand new OEM
As you can see the ring has slipped due to bad cam tensioners.
So in summary, I would like for those that have taken these types of pictures, to post them as clear as possible. These rings have changed over time, some have indentations others don't. Aftermarket ones don't have much to offer as far as ID.
By posting these pics we should be able to get to a general position of where these rings need to be. This would be extremely beneficial for folks who plan on doing theirs and would help with preventative maintenance since you'd be able to check ahead of time the location of the rings prior to tackling the gallery since having to replace a phaser after the cost of the gallery can hurt financially. For perspective 2 sprockets from Z1 would be about $1100 + parts and labor for the Gallery gasket and it'd cost you the same to replace the engine with a lower mileage one.
As you can see posted by Markhops, internally theres nothing special about this phaser since it's all mechanical and hydraulically operated, however without the ring in the right position and without a way of finding out it's worthless.
Unpopular opinion: I'm a firm believer that these can be salvaged by heating the ring, positioning then a tack weld to keep in place as long as there is a way to align it correctly. Per Jim Wolf, if you rotate the engine 40 degrees ATDC you should see a tooth align with a the sensor.
This would be simpler we could find which ring tooth needs to align with which gear tooth. From what I can count on the OEM gear it appears that the phaser ring main tooth aligns with gear tooth #5 after the TDC mark.
I love these engines but resolving these issues are the key to longevity.
So when a phaser is bolted on to the cam they have to be put together in relation too each other..is that correct??? For JP I’m going to call that zero position.
i assume when you I stomp on the gas the VVT system is retard/ advance the cams and I understand that oil pressure controls this.
At that point when I get off the gas ,WHAT MAKES THE PHASER GO BACK TO ZERO ????
So when a phaser is bolted on to the cam they have to be put together in relation too each other..is that correct??? For JP I’m going to call that zero position.
i assume when you I stomp on the gas the VVT system is retard/ advance the cams and I understand that oil pressure controls this.
At that point when I get off the gas ,WHAT MAKES THE PHASER GO BACK TO ZERO ????
The phaser ring is press heated and it's attached to the cam. Even with 15 psi it's enough to move these gears. As throttles open the VTC advances by receiving controlled flow from the VTC solenoid and angles are measure by the VTC position sensor located in the VTC covers.
What happens is VTC change is instant, it's most extreme movements are during racing. Heated oil seeing the opening/closing back and forth. This gear needs to advance and retard in seconds and the overheated oil is what does it.
In natural form this type of racing without an oil cooler will overheat the oil, worse on G37 that dont have oil temp and lastly a failing gallery gasket is the icing on the cake.
Because of the operation of the system, it fills up with about 1/4 of a quart at full advance and tosses it back into the engine at full retard and it continues to do this.
Since the phaser ring is one of the farthest pieces of metal in the timing cover it also means that is the least cooled part in the system. High heat plus temperature differences in the VTC will cause these expansions/contractions and shift the ring in some situations.
It leads to frustrated owners with the same engine codes AFTER the gallery gasket is performed. Replacing the VTC gears is not something most folks have in mind when doing a chain job and almost no one checks the VTC for anything.
The phaser ring is press heated and it's attached to the cam. Even with 15 psi it's enough to move these gears. As throttles open the VTC advances by receiving controlled flow from the VTC solenoid and angles are measure by the VTC position sensor located in the VTC covers.
What happens is VTC change is instant, it's most extreme movements are during racing. Heated oil seeing the opening/closing back and forth. This gear needs to advance and retard in seconds and the overheated oil is what does it.
In natural form this type of racing without an oil cooler will overheat the oil, worse on G37 that dont have oil temp and lastly a failing gallery gasket is the icing on the cake.
Because of the operation of the system, it fills up with about 1/4 of a quart at full advance and tosses it back into the engine at full retard and it continues to do this.
Since the phaser ring is one of the farthest pieces of metal in the timing cover it also means that is the least cooled part in the system. High heat plus temperature differences in the VTC will cause these expansions/contractions and shift the ring in some situations.
It leads to frustrated owners with the same engine codes AFTER the gallery gasket is performed. Replacing the VTC gears is not something most folks have in mind when doing a chain job and almost no one checks the VTC for anything.
Hello, I think I have this sprocket issue on a VQ37VHR/Inf M37x w/ DTC P0011. It's 2012 w/ 67K miles.
Here is what I have from a scan tool.
Int/V timing B1 is -15.5 CA and B2 is -4.5 CA, VVEL Timing B1 27.8410 deg and B2 27.4395 deg at idle. In cranking, Int/V timing B1 = -16 CA and B2 = -3.5 CA.
I've have dropped the oil pan for debris inspection - all good. Changed solenoid, camshaft, and crank shaft sensor. P0011 still persist.
I would like to get your take on what the next step should be. Oil pressure check or just start with tearing the cover apart and replace that sprocket along with other things?
Any advice and suggestion would be greatly appreciated. Looking forward to hear back from you.
Hello, I think I have this sprocket issue on a VQ37VHR/Inf M37x w/ DTC P0011. It's 2012 w/ 67K miles.
Here is what I have from a scan tool.
Int/V timing B1 is -15.5 CA and B2 is -4.5 CA, VVEL Timing B1 27.8410 deg and B2 27.4395 deg at idle. In cranking, Int/V timing B1 = -16 CA and B2 = -3.5 CA.
I've have dropped the oil pan for debris inspection - all good. Changed solenoid, camshaft, and crank shaft sensor. P0011 still persist.
I would like to get your take on what the next step should be. Oil pressure check or just start with tearing the cover apart and replace that sprocket along with other things?
Any advice and suggestion would be greatly appreciated. Looking forward to hear back from you.
Hey there. So start with a manual oil pressure gauge (digital wont be able to display an erratic needle). Confirm that you are at least 14psi @650rpm.
If your VTCs stay stuck at those angles without a code it sounds like they're stuck. They should both be at 0deg at idle with positive variations as you accelerate.
Keep the scanner on while driving and monitor. They usually stay above 0 degrees with the max I've seen has been 60 degrees.
They need to variate.
@ BULL - So SWEET!!! Thank you so much for your reply. I'll get an analog gauge and check the oil pressure readings.
Assuming that the gallery gasket is leaking/bad, should I be getting two DTC's? One on each bank as oppose to only bank 1 - P0011?
To monitor the VTC timing while driving, should the code be cleared first or leave it be?
Just FYI, I replaced the VTC solenoid with a Hitachi brand from RA. Should I replace it with Nissan/Infiniti OEM?
Again, thank you so much for your advice and guidance.
Also, does anyone know of a good shop/mechanic that specialize in Nissan/Infiniti in the Detroit area? Please advise. Thank you.
Last edited by M37xRookie; 11-20-2022 at 06:51 PM.
Just another thread to bring attention to this problem since it can happen however if caught it can save you thousands in money and headaches and silicone.
The Variable Timing Control phaser uses a ring to let the ECM know of their position, this ring is a heated/pressed ring that goes onto the phaser.
Any VQ37 driven hard for more than 5 straight minutes without an oil cooler will see oil temperatures above the 230F mark. For those who have done 30+ minutes you probably saw oil in the 275F or higher. This is a fact, if you'd like to check your temperatures Torque Pro + advanced Infiniti PID will show you under VVT oil temp you actual engine oil temperatures.
So add this issue to failing gasket that will give intermittent oil pressure to these phasers making them bounce between advanced and retarded and you now have a possible 3rd problem depending on how bad the first two got.
Usually the ECM can differentiate between a slipped ring and gallery gasket but this is not always the case. Some will jump into conclusions the minute they see anything VTC related because of the novel gasket. A few will spend thousands chasing a gallery issue to find out it was a ring issue or both.
The main issue I've found is that the recommended approach is to replace the entire phaser when you get the code however as stated before you don't always get the code since there is always some slack that is accounted for.
Where I would need additional help is in the pictorial aspect.
Here is a picture from Jim Wolfe where he shows what it looks like
Here is a picture that I took comparing a slipped ring VS a brand new OEM
As you can see the ring has slipped due to bad cam tensioners.
So in summary, I would like for those that have taken these types of pictures, to post them as clear as possible. These rings have changed over time, some have indentations others don't. Aftermarket ones don't have much to offer as far as ID.
By posting these pics we should be able to get to a general position of where these rings need to be. This would be extremely beneficial for folks who plan on doing theirs and would help with preventative maintenance since you'd be able to check ahead of time the location of the rings prior to tackling the gallery since having to replace a phaser after the cost of the gallery can hurt financially. For perspective 2 sprockets from Z1 would be about $1100 + parts and labor for the Gallery gasket and it'd cost you the same to replace the engine with a lower mileage one.
As you can see posted by Markhops, internally theres nothing special about this phaser since it's all mechanical and hydraulically operated, however without the ring in the right position and without a way of finding out it's worthless.
Unpopular opinion: I'm a firm believer that these can be salvaged by heating the ring, positioning then a tack weld to keep in place as long as there is a way to align it correctly. Per Jim Wolf, if you rotate the engine 40 degrees ATDC you should see a tooth align with a the sensor.
This would be simpler we could find which ring tooth needs to align with which gear tooth. From what I can count on the OEM gear it appears that the phaser ring main tooth aligns with gear tooth #5 after the TDC mark.
I love these engines but resolving these issues are the key to longevity.
In his video it looks more towards #7 but in real life you could debate its right at the middle of #7-#8.
I noticed I would have to take multiple pictures to show. By your eye everything is straight, you take the picture and tooth looks no where close to how it looks to you.
The other side is a straight give-away on #5.
This is also why I'm asking for personal measurements as it would be beneficial to show the best of pictures you could to this thread.
My car started giving me a p0011 code about 30,000 mi after a gallery gasket change. Upon installing a manual oil pressure gauge I noticed that oil pressure was one to two PSI lower at idle then what the FSM says it should be.
The main issue that I was having was that I will get an erratic needle jumping that seem to follow electronical control they would jump 10 to 15 psi erratically and then come down and then go up and then come down something that did not follow RPM. This point of me in the direction that it was being electronically affected.
This initially guided me towards the solenoids which I took out replace with good working ones I never replaced them with new ones because based on the data I did not think that it was the solenoids. Finally when it's time to sell the car I decide to get into it and take off the VTC cover.
As I took it out there it was sitting there looking at me one of the seals that enters the VTC was broken. Not supplying the right amount of oil pressure to the VTC which made a ton of sense.
I will get engagement only at high RPMs which would be when enough oil pressure entered the VTC.
While I was there too I inspected the facer ring which happy to report that it was in the right location it has not shifted. The collection of pictures help tremendously in properly diagnosing this fault.
While I was in there I used the borescope and inspected my gallery gasket and I'm happy to say that my repair worked. A brand new superceded gasket with the original bulbs towards properly and an extra layer of Nissan RTV is still there looking pretty.
After the repair I took the car out and extremely happy with the results.
For those interested, Bank 1 should be right on tooth №5 and bank 2 between tooth № 7/8
4334565[/url]]...As I took it out there it was sitting there looking at me one of the seals that enters the VTC was broken. Not supplying the right amount of oil pressure to the VTC...
@BULL For my own curiosity, any theories why this seal failed? Is it of the same type/ material as the "original" gallery gaskets? Makes me wonder how many other "oil seals" are going to become issues as these engines age.
Either way, I'm glad you finally sorted the issue even as you are parting ways with the car.
@BULL For my own curiosity, any theories why this seal failed? Is it of the same type/ material as the "original" gallery gaskets? Makes me wonder how many other "oil seals" are going to become issues as these engines age.
Either way, I'm glad you finally sorted the issue even as you are parting ways with the car.
So this was my fault from trying to do a timing service replacing bare minimum and recycling what wasn't broken. Well these seal are pressed composite/teflon and these were the original with 180k miles🤣
06-23-2021, 12:33 PM
