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Interesting. Does it seem like your vibration issue is intermittent? Have you done anything different since the last time it was acting up? Mine is always at 500 when I come to a stop. The only time is rises to (I assume 650) is if I'm at an extended traffic light and the vibration gets really bad. I assume those times is when idle drops below 500.
Here's a video from this morning acting correctly in Drive.
Approximately 8am took my son to school, then my daughter to bus, home @ 8:22. I park in garage and it's about 49 degrees outside so vehicle (engine) was warm but power train shouldn't have been - idling at 500 in drive.
Sat in driveway from 8:22 until 9:20, possibly allowing heat to soak in. On the 8 minute drive to work, stop and go below 40 mph, idling correctly @ 650 in drive - A/C off.
Below is the video of how it was idling when I got to work.
Now back home after the same 8 minute drive, engine is warm but vehicle was sitting all day so mostly just the engine. Idling at 500 RPM.
I'm reluctant to have the idle increased as it would idle too high in drive (might make it lurch into gear) and when acting correctly would idle around 700 in drive. I'm of the opinion this can be fixed differently, but of course I have no idea how to fix it 😬.
Mine has always been intermittent and I believe that's common. There's really no rhyme or reason to why it's sometimes 500 and sometimes 650 in drive, however after a spirited drive or when the engine/transmission is thoroughly warm, it's at 650 more than not.
This leads me to believe some sort of communication error.
-Eric
Or, instead of a CAN error, it could be something temperature related (i.e. temp sensor)??
Mine has always been intermittent and I believe that's common. There's really no rhyme or reason to why it's sometimes 500 and sometimes 650 in drive, however after a spirited drive or when the engine/transmission is thoroughly warm, it's at 650 more than not.
This leads me to believe some sort of communication error.
-Eric
I stopped for coffee on the way to work this morning. Cafe is only a few miles away, so engine was warm, but tranny not fully. As I was waiting in the drive-thru, idle in D was 500, then after about maybe 30 seconds or so, it would raise to 650 and vibration gone. Once it got to 650, it would stay there perfectly. Also, once it got to 650, it wouldn't go back down to 500 until the next stop. This happened at several lights this morning as traffic was especially heavy. Each extended stop was the same thing... initial 500, then raise to 650 after about 30 sec.
Now... what the heck is that?
Also, I wanted to ask: define spirited driving? When running it hard, how high are you revving? I rarely drive spirited. In fact, my wife says I drive like a grandpa. I run it high every once in a while. But, most of the time, it barely sees anything past 4,000 rpm.
Awhile ago when I brought my car in to Infiniti for service, and the concern about the vibration at 500 RPM in drive, the service adviser proactively asked if I wanted them to raise the idle to see if that helps. At that time, my mindset was that I did not want them to change anything from factory specification and I declined. Unfortunately, that adviser is no longer working at the location or any location near by.
Hmm... very interesting. I wonder if that dealer experienced other G's with the same issue? That adviser knew his stuff! What dealer was this? When you had your car in, did they measure base idle? If it was 650, they could have raised it 50 rpm to make it 700. Service Manuel spec is 650 +/- 50 rpm, which makes this 600-700. Also, even though the tach may indicate 650 or 500, the scan tool is very accurate and measures rpm on a more precise level. If idle is "set" at 650, it could dip/raise slight below that when actually running. One of the videos I attached above shows the real-time idle and the number constantly changes. If I can get a Nissan dealer to do this, I would ask if I could watch as would be interested to see the fluctuation, and figure out an average idle speed.
Or, instead of a CAN error, it could be something temperature related (i.e. temp sensor)??
I'm starting to lean that way which is why in an earlier post I asked how the ECM knows that it's in drive, especially when the FSM indicates the vehicle adjusts fuel when shifting into drive.
If the same sensor is used for drive and reverse, possibly the sensor indicating it's not in park/neutral, that would make diagnosis more difficult. However, if there are separate sensors for drive and reverse, I would like to disable the reverse sensor to see if the idle drops to 500 in reverse.
I stopped for coffee on the way to work this morning. Cafe is only a few miles away, so engine was warm, but tranny not fully. As I was waiting in the drive-thru, idle in D was 500, then after about maybe 30 seconds or so, it would raise to 650 and vibration gone. Once it got to 650, it would stay there perfectly. Also, once it got to 650, it wouldn't go back down to 500 until the next stop. This happened at several lights this morning as traffic was especially heavy. Each extended stop was the same thing... initial 500, then raise to 650 after about 30 sec.
Now... what the heck is that?
Also, I wanted to ask: define spirited driving? When running it hard, how high are you revving? I rarely drive spirited. In fact, my wife says I drive like a grandpa. I run it high every once in a while. But, most of the time, it barely sees anything past 4,000 rpm.
For me, spirited driving is running repeatedly to redline and often keeping the vehicle in Sport mode manually shifting at or near redline and generally keeping the RPMs above 3k.
Video below is after 30+ minutes of spirited driving with the idle sitting correctly at 650.
Now back home after the same 8 minute drive, engine is warm but vehicle was sitting all day so mostly just the engine. Idling at 500 RPM.
I'm reluctant to have the idle increased as it would idle too high in drive (might make it lurch into gear) and when acting correctly would idle around 700 in drive. I'm of the opinion this can be fixed differently, but of course I have no idea how to fix it 😬.
-Eric
Tonight:
At this stage, I want them to bump the idle to see what happens. I don't think bumping the base idle 50-100 rpms is going to change much possibly remove the vibration. Back in my late teens, I used to have an 1988 Camaro IROC-Z. Even in D, they were roughly 500-600 and they pulled... not because of the idle, but rather the high torque they had--more so than the G's. If you let off the brake while in D, they would roll at 5 mph--LOL.
If there would be a communication error or CAN line error, that's something that would easily show up on a Nissan scan tool. Have you had you car to the dealer lately?
I recall when my 2002 Maxima threw a CAN code, which caused a hard engine light. My mechanic checked everything out and said it's either the ECM or TCM. I replaced the ECM first... got one at salvage and had Nissan re-flash it. Did not fix it. I then replaced the TCM (plug & play) and that solved the problem and engine light went off. In that case, the engine light wasn't causing any driveability issues, it was preventing me from getting the emissions inspection done.
As of right now, the only possibilities popping into my head are: idle adjustment, ECM or TCM replacement or engine/tranny mounts. Mounts were visually checked, but I would think there would other issues that would indicate this. ECM/TCM is a gamble as I would source from a salvage yard.
I have an appt. with my mechanics next Wed, 10-30-19. He is installing new rotors and pads. While he has it, he's going to check out all systems with his diagnostic tool (Snap-On Solus Ultra). He will be able to detect anything wrong with the car from an electronic standpoint. He'll also be able to detect any sensors or components with sensors that are running out of normal range, but would not necessarily throw a code.
I'm starting to lean that way which is why in an earlier post I asked how the ECM knows that it's in drive, especially when the FSM indicates the vehicle adjusts fuel when shifting into drive.
If the same sensor is used for drive and reverse, possibly the sensor indicating it's not in park/neutral, that would make diagnosis more difficult. However, if there are separate sensors for drive and reverse, I would like to disable the reverse sensor to see if the idle drops to 500 in reverse.
-Eric
Do you have a copy of the Service Manual? If not, you can view/download here:
I do - but I can't find the sensors or how the ECM knows the vehicle is in drive - it's possibly just the shifter that does it and I need to spend more time looking at the wiring diagrams.
The 5th bullet point in the section below is leading me down the path of sensor.
I do - but I can't find the sensors or how the ECM knows the vehicle is in drive - it's possibly just the shifter that does it and I need to spend more time looking at the wiring diagrams.
The 5th bullet point in the section below is leading me down the path of sensor.
-Eric
Can you tell me what section and page this is? I'm going to reference it for my mechanic and have him check this out. It appears as though this can be monitored with a diagnostic tool while the engine is running. I believe the Engine Control (EC) section shows a diagram of all sensor locations--both photo and electronic diagram.
Did the TB cleaning and reset procedure last night. Wierdly it idles right at 650 in D, only when the AC is on regardless of fan speed... With it off, its sitting 535-575. Now I have normal ranges in PRN.
Multi-port fuel injection system increases the fuel when the vehicle is put into drive via ECM
The transmission control module (TCM) signals which gear the vehicle is in to the ECM
The TCM is located within the transmission
More invasive to replace as transmission pan needs to be dropped
Transmission heating up from engine could correct issue - mine seems to idle correctly once transmission is thoroughly warmed up
Consult should be able to see the output from the TCM to verify RPM in drive coupled with TCM output
Not reading in drive/low idle - TCM at fault
Reading in drive/low idle - TCM not at fault
I can't tell - but the transmission switch should be in the center console gear shifter - if so I could verify output with VOM and disable reverse switch to see if vehicle idles low in reverse
[QUOTE=llebcire;4258900]Here's what I came up with:
Multi-port fuel injection system increases the fuel when the vehicle is put into drive via ECM
The transmission control module (TCM) signals which gear the vehicle is in to the ECM
The TCM is located within the transmission
More invasive to replace as transmission pan needs to be dropped
Transmission heating up from engine could correct issue - mine seems to idle correctly once transmission is thoroughly warmed up
Consult should be able to see the output from the TCM to verify RPM in drive coupled with TCM output
Not reading in drive/low idle - TCM at fault
Reading in drive/low idle - TCM not at fault
I can't tell - but the transmission switch should be in the center console gear shifter - if so I could verify output with VOM and disable reverse switch to see if vehicle idles low in reverse
-Eric
Engine Control manual
TM - Transaxel and Transmission
[/
QUOTE]
This is very interesting. If ECM controls fuel based on gear, which is transmitted by TCM to ECM, why would there only be an issue when you are stopped? If the conditional changes are based on temperature of the tranny itself, do you experience the same conditions during the summer? If outside temperature is not a condition, and in fact, there is a correlation between a tranny being fully warmed and correct idle in D at 650, perhaps there is something more going on other than the TCM? Would a tranny flush do anything? I would think since the TCM is inside the control valve, it would get plenty warm up during a normal drive.
I actually have an appt. this Saturday with my local Nissan dealer to check the idle. I'm surprised I was actually able to make the appt. I told them too I want to see the idle readings on the scan tool, so I can ask them about the TCM as well. It looks like you don't have to drop the tranny, per se, as the TCM appears to be bolted onto the underside of the control valve--which is the exposed portion right underneath the car. It's still a process though as you need to drain all the fluid, remove pan, remove control valve assembly and unbolt the TCM from the assembly. Geez,,, there can't be anything simple with these cars, huh? My '02 Maxima TCM swap consisted of swapping a box located underneath the HVAC control panel.
10-21-2019 | 01:29 PM
