Help! Car won't go past 4K RPM
10-27-2014, 12:03 PM
#16
^ you raise an interesting point, and one i had thought of previously. what, if any, are the potential long term affects of running with the P0524 low oil pressure code? does low oil pressure = less lubrication for internal engine components? YES logically i would think so, but i don't know so.
what if a guy keeps the car for 5 years after (my plan) - is there an increased risk of eventual engine failure? i had asked my dealer about this when they did the repair work, to which they answered that there was still enough lubrication to prevent wear. how can i be sure? or is the low oil pressure localized to the timing chain area only, not the cylinders and valves? The entire engine isn't being lubricated optimally and can experience premature wear. It's not easy to quantify how much and how it will reduce engine life. I didn't think of it at the time, but capturing a sample of the oil drained when the repair is done and having it analyzed might have given some quantifiable evidence of the excessive wear.
in my case i drove with the CEL codes on and off for a few months. the codes would pop up every month or so, then i'd reset the computer and drive normally for another month. during this time i had been into the dealer and they had diagnosed the problem and ordered parts (including a new ECM) which took several weeks. without tearing the heads off and looking inside the engine, how can i be sure that no long term damage has been done? You can't. Even a tear down might not show anything abnormal.
the car ran fine the entire time. no unusual noises or changes in performance or fuel economy.
a friend of mine had a mazdaspeed6 a few years back and nearly ran it out of oil (1.5L remaining in a 6.5L crankcase) due to a drain plug leak. he is negligent with his cars and had been running with very little oil for months as it turned out. he only found out because i checked his oil before we headed out on a road trip - a force of habit for me no matter whose car it is. he did mentioned the car had been "acting weird" and "making noises" for a while. we got the oil changed right away and went on our way, but his motor lynched itself less than a year later. clearly the damage had been done, particularly in that higher stressed and high temperature turbocharged motor. i know it is a different scenario, but it has me somewhat concerned nonetheless.
what if a guy keeps the car for 5 years after (my plan) - is there an increased risk of eventual engine failure? i had asked my dealer about this when they did the repair work, to which they answered that there was still enough lubrication to prevent wear. how can i be sure? or is the low oil pressure localized to the timing chain area only, not the cylinders and valves? The entire engine isn't being lubricated optimally and can experience premature wear. It's not easy to quantify how much and how it will reduce engine life. I didn't think of it at the time, but capturing a sample of the oil drained when the repair is done and having it analyzed might have given some quantifiable evidence of the excessive wear.
in my case i drove with the CEL codes on and off for a few months. the codes would pop up every month or so, then i'd reset the computer and drive normally for another month. during this time i had been into the dealer and they had diagnosed the problem and ordered parts (including a new ECM) which took several weeks. without tearing the heads off and looking inside the engine, how can i be sure that no long term damage has been done? You can't. Even a tear down might not show anything abnormal.
the car ran fine the entire time. no unusual noises or changes in performance or fuel economy.
a friend of mine had a mazdaspeed6 a few years back and nearly ran it out of oil (1.5L remaining in a 6.5L crankcase) due to a drain plug leak. he is negligent with his cars and had been running with very little oil for months as it turned out. he only found out because i checked his oil before we headed out on a road trip - a force of habit for me no matter whose car it is. he did mentioned the car had been "acting weird" and "making noises" for a while. we got the oil changed right away and went on our way, but his motor lynched itself less than a year later. clearly the damage had been done, particularly in that higher stressed and high temperature turbocharged motor. i know it is a different scenario, but it has me somewhat concerned nonetheless.
10-27-2014, 03:17 PM
#18
thanks, BB. your responses pretty much align with my thoughts as well. and yes, a UOA would have been wise, but of course the dealer did a synthetic oil change under warranty as part of the work order so no chance for that. i guess i'm SOL as far as piece of mind on the matter. i'll just have to wait and see...
10-27-2014, 03:21 PM
#20
EDIT: He posted right before I did and beat me to the punch.
10-27-2014, 03:55 PM
#21
Registered User
^ you raise an interesting point, and one i had thought of previously. what, if any, are the potential long term affects of running with the P0524 low oil pressure code? does low oil pressure = less lubrication for internal engine components? logically i would think so, but i don't know so.
what if a guy keeps the car for 5 years after (my plan) - is there an increased risk of eventual engine failure? i had asked my dealer about this when they did the repair work, to which they answered that there was still enough lubrication to prevent wear. how can i be sure? or is the low oil pressure localized to the timing chain area only, not the cylinders and valves?
in my case i drove with the CEL codes on and off for a few months. the codes would pop up every month or so, then i'd reset the computer and drive normally for another month. during this time i had been into the dealer and they had diagnosed the problem and ordered parts (including a new ECM) which took several weeks. without tearing the heads off and looking inside the engine, how can i be sure that no long term damage has been done?
the car ran fine the entire time. no unusual noises or changes in performance or fuel economy.
a friend of mine had a mazdaspeed6 a few years back and nearly ran it out of oil (1.5L remaining in a 6.5L crankcase) due to a drain plug leak. he is negligent with his cars and had been running with very little oil for months as it turned out. he only found out because i checked his oil before we headed out on a road trip - a force of habit for me no matter whose car it is. he did mentioned the car had been "acting weird" and "making noises" for a while. we got the oil changed right away and went on our way, but his motor lynched itself less than a year later. clearly the damage had been done, particularly in that higher stressed and high temperature turbocharged motor. i know it is a different scenario, but it has me somewhat concerned nonetheless.
what if a guy keeps the car for 5 years after (my plan) - is there an increased risk of eventual engine failure? i had asked my dealer about this when they did the repair work, to which they answered that there was still enough lubrication to prevent wear. how can i be sure? or is the low oil pressure localized to the timing chain area only, not the cylinders and valves?
in my case i drove with the CEL codes on and off for a few months. the codes would pop up every month or so, then i'd reset the computer and drive normally for another month. during this time i had been into the dealer and they had diagnosed the problem and ordered parts (including a new ECM) which took several weeks. without tearing the heads off and looking inside the engine, how can i be sure that no long term damage has been done?
the car ran fine the entire time. no unusual noises or changes in performance or fuel economy.
a friend of mine had a mazdaspeed6 a few years back and nearly ran it out of oil (1.5L remaining in a 6.5L crankcase) due to a drain plug leak. he is negligent with his cars and had been running with very little oil for months as it turned out. he only found out because i checked his oil before we headed out on a road trip - a force of habit for me no matter whose car it is. he did mentioned the car had been "acting weird" and "making noises" for a while. we got the oil changed right away and went on our way, but his motor lynched itself less than a year later. clearly the damage had been done, particularly in that higher stressed and high temperature turbocharged motor. i know it is a different scenario, but it has me somewhat concerned nonetheless.
If it's any peace of mind, I can offer that I although I was shocked when I discovered that my car had but 5 psi of oil pressure at an idle, it nonetheless readily made acceptable oil pressure while being revved to anything over 2K rpm. For anyone in this situation with an automatic transmission, they could have been fairly assured that the transmission shift control logic naturally would have kept the engine above that rpm range; certainly while under any load anyway, such that ample oil pressure would likely be present.
For those with a manual transmission like me though, it is quite possible to 'lug' or otherwise subject the engine to heavier bearing loads while still at very low rpms. Until my car was fixed, I made a point of revving the engine higher, and slipping the clutch a bit more, to keep the rpms up as the engine came under load.
However, to keep this in context, upon teardown, my engine only had one corner of one gasket blown out. Others have exhibited far worse blow out of their gaskets, which would undoubtedly have compromised oil pressure at higher rpms as well.
10-27-2014, 04:51 PM
#23
As vqsmilie explained in another thread, the low oil pressure warning light on the dash is really more of a no oil pressure light. If is is on, you have no oil pressure whatsoever so it is thoroughly useless. I have not seen anyone who's experienced this issue post that they were alerted to the problem by an oil pressure light. More genius automotive engineering by Nissan.
EDIT: He posted right before I did and beat me to the punch.
EDIT: He posted right before I did and beat me to the punch.
10-27-2014, 07:28 PM
#24
Registered User
Well, being curious myself, I just went down to the garage and pulled the plug on the damn thing to see whether or not it would trip a code. It does not. I ran it for 10 minutes with the "sensor" (we should really just be calling it a SWITCH !) plugged in and then checked the ScanGauge for any fault codes: none, zip, nada; not even a pending code.
I did notice that the oilcan idiot light never illuminated during the lamp check sequence when starting the car with it unplugged, so the system does indeed know whether it is present or not. This tells me it must be a simple high impedance device which yields a healthy voltage signal to the ECU as long as the OP is above the trigger point, and then it switches to a low impedance when there's virtually no OP. This would explain why the lamp comes on when the car's electrical system is energized, but the engine isn't running, yet doesn't come on when the SWITCH is unplugged and the engine is running or not.
I did notice that the oilcan idiot light never illuminated during the lamp check sequence when starting the car with it unplugged, so the system does indeed know whether it is present or not. This tells me it must be a simple high impedance device which yields a healthy voltage signal to the ECU as long as the OP is above the trigger point, and then it switches to a low impedance when there's virtually no OP. This would explain why the lamp comes on when the car's electrical system is energized, but the engine isn't running, yet doesn't come on when the SWITCH is unplugged and the engine is running or not.
10-28-2014, 03:27 PM
#25
Registered User
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it certainly seems as though you are suffering like many of the rest of us are with the catastrophic failure of the inner timing chain seal/gasket.
I'm glad you have done some research and reading of what Black Betty is going through along with many of the rest of us with this premature catastrophic failure of an under engineered gasket in a critical high oil pressure area of our engines.
In my opinion, along with many others here and in many other forums, the catastrophic failure of this part should rest solely on the responsibility of Corporate Infiniti/Nissan. They have known about this poorly engineered part for a long time coming and have done nothing but sweep it under the rug in hopes that the problem would never realize it's true potential in malfunction.
My 2008 G37S coupe with 102,000 miles is going through the very same issue. I had my car at my tuner shop yesterday and it seems as though I'm in for at least a $2600 bill to have the engine pulled and both front and rear timing chain gaskets replaced at a minimum.
Please let us all know what your diagnosis is as soon as you get it so we can add another name to the Catastrophic Failure list. I have finally reached my breaking point and I am going to put together a letter of complaint to Corporate Infiniti.
Best of luck
I'm glad you have done some research and reading of what Black Betty is going through along with many of the rest of us with this premature catastrophic failure of an under engineered gasket in a critical high oil pressure area of our engines.
In my opinion, along with many others here and in many other forums, the catastrophic failure of this part should rest solely on the responsibility of Corporate Infiniti/Nissan. They have known about this poorly engineered part for a long time coming and have done nothing but sweep it under the rug in hopes that the problem would never realize it's true potential in malfunction.
My 2008 G37S coupe with 102,000 miles is going through the very same issue. I had my car at my tuner shop yesterday and it seems as though I'm in for at least a $2600 bill to have the engine pulled and both front and rear timing chain gaskets replaced at a minimum.
Please let us all know what your diagnosis is as soon as you get it so we can add another name to the Catastrophic Failure list. I have finally reached my breaking point and I am going to put together a letter of complaint to Corporate Infiniti.
Best of luck
I think you guys should file a class-action lawsuit against Nissan for this...
02-25-2015, 09:27 AM
#28
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Phew! With just 3k to go...
This happened to me just this past week-end, still without car, won't be back until tomorrow, at the earliest. Fortunately, I had a few clicks left on the powertrain warranty. From researching this topic, and as has been pointed out on multiple threads, Infiniti would have known and should have held moral high ground and notified owners that their pressure should be checked.
As someone has already said, and I concur, confidence in the Infiniti brand has been shaken. My concern is, ok, I get my car back, the repair has been affected, I got lucky and it was gratis....but now what? Trade-in? Infiniti or go somewhere else? I've enjoyed my G35 and G37, and treated them well, but this situation is not what I would expect from a higher brand.
As someone has already said, and I concur, confidence in the Infiniti brand has been shaken. My concern is, ok, I get my car back, the repair has been affected, I got lucky and it was gratis....but now what? Trade-in? Infiniti or go somewhere else? I've enjoyed my G35 and G37, and treated them well, but this situation is not what I would expect from a higher brand.
02-25-2015, 09:44 AM
#29
Registered User
I believe it was confirmed that a newer designed gasket (metal) is being used now. IIRC, 2013 may be the year where this new gasket is in use perhaps?
Also, if you were to have the gaskets replaced, they would most likely be replaced by metal ones, so this shouldn't ever crop back up in the future.
Also, if you were to have the gaskets replaced, they would most likely be replaced by metal ones, so this shouldn't ever crop back up in the future.
02-25-2015, 10:30 AM
#30
This happened to me just this past week-end, still without car, won't be back until tomorrow, at the earliest. Fortunately, I had a few clicks left on the powertrain warranty. From researching this topic, and as has been pointed out on multiple threads, Infiniti would have known and should have held moral high ground and notified owners that their pressure should be checked.
As someone has already said, and I concur, confidence in the Infiniti brand has been shaken. My concern is, ok, I get my car back, the repair has been affected, I got lucky and it was gratis....but now what? Trade-in? Infiniti or go somewhere else? I've enjoyed my G35 and G37, and treated them well, but this situation is not what I would expect from a higher brand.
As someone has already said, and I concur, confidence in the Infiniti brand has been shaken. My concern is, ok, I get my car back, the repair has been affected, I got lucky and it was gratis....but now what? Trade-in? Infiniti or go somewhere else? I've enjoyed my G35 and G37, and treated them well, but this situation is not what I would expect from a higher brand.
No manufacturer will ever take the moral high ground and notify you that they screwed up and it might cost you a ton of money later down the line if they don't get it fixed now. They'd much rather cross their fingers and hope it happens after the warranty expires so that the repair is on your hands, not theirs. They have profit targets to meet, you know.
I do understand how your confidence in the brand quality is in question, but rest assured that every other manufacturer does the same exact thing. Ask GM how crossing their fingers and hoping that the faulty ignition switches wouldn't become a big deal worked out for them. They all roll the dice on stuff like this and hope it won't bite them in the azz. Usually it doesn't. Even with the recalls they're still swimming in money. It's costing them about $2.8 billion and 3Q 2014 profits were still $1.4 billion.
Earnings Releases - Quarterly Reports & Financial Releases | GM.com
So unless/until legislation to tighten the regulation to how car manufacturers handle known defects (hint: it wont because their lobby is too powerful) we will all just have to hope to get lucky and miss large quality and safety issues on the cars we buy. No matter the manufacturer. The CEO of Honda just had to step down because of the Takata airbag craziness.
We can bitch all we like but it doesn't matter to anyone but us unless it were to cause a mass consumer shift that cost them billions. Then they'd make changes and be more proactive when it comes to addressing QC issues.