Why no AWD manual transmission?
04-27-2012, 09:10 PM
#16
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While this is largely true, the other half can't drive stick very well, the G isn't the best car for her to learn on, and there's no way she could ever drive this in the winter. Life's full of these compromises. She wants a little SUV with a sunroof. I'm trying to find something that won't make me want to kill myself when we go on road trips together, like her Cobalt makes me want to do.
If I can talk her out of an SUV and into a wagon/hatch, then the G is probably safe. What gets me tho, is that once you start adding options to a mazda3 hatch (or mazdaspeed3), or a WRX, you are encroaching, if not outright entering, G territory. And then we're talking not as much power, same efficiency, questionable interior comforts.
If I can talk her out of an SUV and into a wagon/hatch, then the G is probably safe. What gets me tho, is that once you start adding options to a mazda3 hatch (or mazdaspeed3), or a WRX, you are encroaching, if not outright entering, G territory. And then we're talking not as much power, same efficiency, questionable interior comforts.
04-29-2012, 05:45 PM
#17
3 series come in AWD + manual. With a little luck, you can find a coupe in manual... But the sedans with manual are like a Unicorn. You are almost guaranteed to have to factory order it. When I bought my X5 I asked they guy why don't they stock the 3 series sedan in manual. He said demand is WAY too low to have it in inventory. They factory order when someone wants it, but that's it. I just did a quick check - not one BMW dealer within 75 miles of my house has a single 3 series sedan in manual in stock. Lazy Americans!!
04-29-2012, 10:13 PM
#18
Europeans aren't really into manual in high-end cars. Manual is popular in low-end cars there, not in expensive performance cars where Europeans prefer a good DCT or auto.
Japanese aren't that much into manual either - the G37 6MT sedan isn't offered in Japan. Only the coupe is offered with 6MT over there.
It's actually American purists who insist on manual, and also the American automotive press is biased toward manual for some reason. BMW is forced to make a US-only 6MT option on some cars such as the new M5 because Americans insist on it.
As someone who has driven BMWs equipped with 6MT, 7-speed DCT, and 8-speed ZF trannies, I have to say that it's hard to justify going with the 6MT unless you're a die-hard old-school type.
04-29-2012, 11:10 PM
#19
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It's actually American purists who insist on manual, and also the American automotive press is biased toward manual for some reason.
Additionally, if manual's were geared more towards efficiency than the short sporty gearing (or keep the short sporty gearing with a larger 6th cog), generally manual's would be more efficient.
I don't simply want a manual transmission just so I can row my own gears (although I do like it).
04-29-2012, 11:48 PM
#20
I'd be interested in seeing the failure/repair rate of automatic transmissions vs manuals.
Additionally, if manual's were geared more towards efficiency than the short sporty gearing (or keep the short sporty gearing with a larger 6th cog), generally manual's would be more efficient.
I don't simply want a manual transmission just so I can row my own gears (although I do like it).
Additionally, if manual's were geared more towards efficiency than the short sporty gearing (or keep the short sporty gearing with a larger 6th cog), generally manual's would be more efficient.
I don't simply want a manual transmission just so I can row my own gears (although I do like it).
By the way, you can shift manually quite nicely on some advanced auto transmissions, although there isn't much reason to do so under most circumstances - somewhat useful on mountain roads where you may be able to do a better job manually, and where you stay mostly in the lower gears (too much hassle to shift 8 gears manually!)
Short sporty 6MT gearing is one of the things that make manual driving on sporty cars like the G37 kind of a pain in daily driving - too much shifting, and too much jerkiness. Also, 6 gears aren't enough to make the most optimal and efficient use of the engine in some cases, but 6 is already more than enough to worry about manually. More gears work well on autos, not so much on manual.
I used to be a manual purist myself, but gradually and reluctantly changed my views in recent times.
04-30-2012, 12:34 AM
#21
Dealers don't stock them because they don't sell well-enough, and they become magnets for people who want to test drive a 6MT BMW just to experience it, and without the intention to buy.
Europeans aren't really into manual in high-end cars. Manual is popular in low-end cars there, not in expensive performance cars where Europeans prefer a good DCT or auto.
Japanese aren't that much into manual either - the G37 6MT sedan isn't offered in Japan. Only the coupe is offered with 6MT over there.
It's actually American purists who insist on manual, and also the American automotive press is biased toward manual for some reason. BMW is forced to make a US-only 6MT option on some cars such as the new M5 because Americans insist on it.
As someone who has driven BMWs equipped with 6MT, 7-speed DCT, and 8-speed ZF trannies, I have to say that it's hard to justify going with the 6MT unless you're a die-hard old-school type.
Europeans aren't really into manual in high-end cars. Manual is popular in low-end cars there, not in expensive performance cars where Europeans prefer a good DCT or auto.
Japanese aren't that much into manual either - the G37 6MT sedan isn't offered in Japan. Only the coupe is offered with 6MT over there.
It's actually American purists who insist on manual, and also the American automotive press is biased toward manual for some reason. BMW is forced to make a US-only 6MT option on some cars such as the new M5 because Americans insist on it.
As someone who has driven BMWs equipped with 6MT, 7-speed DCT, and 8-speed ZF trannies, I have to say that it's hard to justify going with the 6MT unless you're a die-hard old-school type.
04-30-2012, 01:00 AM
#22
Anyway, this is an area where Infiniti has some catching up to do...
Last edited by visualguy; 04-30-2012 at 01:07 AM.
04-30-2012, 12:35 PM
#23
But if you look in Europe at the "Lower end" luxury cars (e.g. 3 Series, A4, etc) a lot more of them are sold as manual in Europe. A LOT more.....
04-30-2012, 01:16 PM
#24
This pricing strategy probably has at least some influence on buying behavior.
In the US, if you buy a manual BMW, you're giving BMW a significantly higher profit margin on the car than they would be getting if you bought an automatic (they use expensive auto trannies), so they should love you for that...
04-30-2012, 03:40 PM
#25
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On the M3 it's even worse at over $5,000.
04-30-2012, 11:50 PM
#26
05-01-2012, 12:15 AM
#27
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Back on topic- I can't imagine Infiniti spending the millions of dollars (or yen, euros or yuen) necessary to build a manual AWD transmission option, when consumer demand is less than 5% of total production for manual trannys. While BMW or Audi have much higher profit margins and pricing for their products, even limited demand on a manual can be profitable. Too bad that doesn't work with Infiniti, but give me better value for money any day.
05-01-2012, 01:28 AM
#28
. DCT. No slush box to be found
05-01-2012, 02:03 AM
#29
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Dealers don't stock them because they don't sell well-enough, and they become magnets for people who want to test drive a 6MT BMW just to experience it, and without the intention to buy.
Europeans aren't really into manual in high-end cars. Manual is popular in low-end cars there, not in expensive performance cars where Europeans prefer a good DCT or auto.
Japanese aren't that much into manual either - the G37 6MT sedan isn't offered in Japan. Only the coupe is offered with 6MT over there.
It's actually American purists who insist on manual, and also the American automotive press is biased toward manual for some reason. BMW is forced to make a US-only 6MT option on some cars such as the new M5 because Americans insist on it.
As someone who has driven BMWs equipped with 6MT, 7-speed DCT, and 8-speed ZF trannies, I have to say that it's hard to justify going with the 6MT unless you're a die-hard old-school type.
Europeans aren't really into manual in high-end cars. Manual is popular in low-end cars there, not in expensive performance cars where Europeans prefer a good DCT or auto.
Japanese aren't that much into manual either - the G37 6MT sedan isn't offered in Japan. Only the coupe is offered with 6MT over there.
It's actually American purists who insist on manual, and also the American automotive press is biased toward manual for some reason. BMW is forced to make a US-only 6MT option on some cars such as the new M5 because Americans insist on it.
As someone who has driven BMWs equipped with 6MT, 7-speed DCT, and 8-speed ZF trannies, I have to say that it's hard to justify going with the 6MT unless you're a die-hard old-school type.
MT is more fun.
05-01-2012, 03:19 AM
#30
Funny - I'm originally from Europe (although I reside in the US now)... I still drive manual, but this is my last manual car because autos are much better now. By the way, no one in my family over there drives manual - all moved to automatics even though they used to drive manual and originally learned to drive on manual.