MiLK_MD

iTrader: (1)

As has been previously stated our VQs are very tough on oil. For my latest run I used as best oil as I could find and went out of spec for the track day, Motul 300V 5W40: good VII, high HTHS, high moly. Even this oil sheared down after a shortened OCI. Granted I did have multiple extended runs at redline on this oil.

2 track days, ambient 70-75 F, max oil temp 220 F
Oil pressure 70-100 PSI at 5000-7000 RPM


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Anyone have any other suggestions on hardy oils for our VQ?

Mike

iTrader: (1)

Wow... 300V should not be shearing. Was this your first 300V change?

My track car's oil temps hit ~260, and I don't see any shearing at all.

Are you running an oil cooler? What do the tracks you run at look like? Do you have any data logs you're willing to share?

Are you burning/losing oil? Coolant temp? Oil level?


Also, what modifications, if any to the drivetrain?

Steveo47

iTrader: (8)

i JUST switched over to 300v, i hope you got a crappy batch !

MiLK_MD

iTrader: (1)

Mike -

First time running 300V.
No oil cooler but max oil temps 230 F. Max ECT 190 F.
Not burning oil, never need top off. For track days I fill to H line on dipstick. Maybe I need a deeper oil pan to prevent windage/splash? I'm not having problems with lack of flow, suction, etc. Pressures on the grid ~25 PSI, 70-100 PSI during run.
Stock drive train (using Motul 300 gear in transmission and diff). Minor bolt on mods.

I think I can dig up my data logs from engine management but I lost telemetry logs. I'm running a 2.3 mi, 14 turn course with straights reaching 110-120 mph with the majority of the run in 3rd or 4th gear to redline.

I've posted other UOA in the Blackstone thread with previous fills if anyone is interested. Cross post on BITOG.

Mike

iTrader: (1)

I'm banned on BITOG. Some asshat claimed my VOA on 300V was his, and the admins decided to ban me by IP without giving me any chance to defend myself. I still have the original pdf and email from blackstone.

I'm at a loss as to why your oil is shearing. Your Copper wear has dropped, but Aluminum went up a lot. Are you changing oil filters with every change? I ask because your OCI is super short.

Do you have power mods and/or are you tuned? Piston wear is something I've never personally seen on a report before. The oil is definitely lubricating your engine better, as copper has dropped, and is typically indicative of bearings. I'm wondering if you're seeing any detonation at all, since you mention you have bolt ons, are you running HFC/TP? Those will lean you out.

Do you know where your oil temp is being measured? I'm surprised you haven't hit limp mode without a cooler, as most of the local guys here in so-cal hit limp in just a few laps even with a cooler unless they're running the extremely large ones. Are you short shifting or going all the way to 7500 (or whatever your rev limiter is set at)?


By chance, have you done any compression and leakdown tests on your engine?

MiLK_MD

iTrader: (1)

I only mentioned BITOG as there is a discussion going on over there but nothing new to contribute. I have my previous UOA with various fills listed here also just in case anyone is wondering.

I have changed filters with each oil change. JEBPerformance includes a free filter with each oil purchase

I have HFC with a mild exhaust but have not re-tuned and rev-limit is as per stock with my runs ~7000 RPM. I'm measuring the oil temps right off the original sender and pressure is measured where the original switch used to be. Both signals are analog feeding info into a Dashdaq. The oil temp is a non-linear analog signal with a pull-up resistor. Oil pressure is a 0-5V sensor with a clean power supply. ECT and RPM are read off of OBDII and ambient temps are taken from a weather station at the staging area at the track.

I haven't tested for detonation during an active run but have tested stationary and have not found any pings. No knocks as per knock sensor via OBDII as well.

The reason I haven't hit limp mode is because I have tapped the original temp sensor for the analog signal (non-linear) and disconnected the harness that leads to the ECU. I manually monitor the running temps recording the maximums and have an alert should the temp exceed a certain level (260 F).

I have not had a change to perform compression tests. I'm hoping to be able to do a tear down at some point and have the pistons and rod treated.

I appreciate your thoughts.

P.S. Thanks for a copy of your UOA. It was helpful.

Mike

iTrader: (1)

300V generally thickens with heat; my older UOAs with track days in 110+ ambient temps typically show the viscosity to increase during those months.

Hopefully we get this figured out.

MiLK_MD

iTrader: (1)

Thank you for the link to the VOA. The VOA has bearing on my situation as follows:

I am not sure whether the shearing is due to the oil, the VQ, my driving style or all three. I was not expecting such a highly regarded oil to shear with such a shortened OCI. Someone had suggested I contact Blackstone and I spoke to a technician. Their hypothesis was that looking at the additives they noted some dilution from the previous oil. This explanation may be plausible as I was using an AFE oil for the previous interval.

Others have suggested that I use Mobil 1 0W40 which I currently have in the engine. With such a large spread however I am concerned that this oil would be even more prone to shearing. I have an auto-x shortly and will leave this oil in and then get another UOA. What I might do from now on is to stick with one oil over two or three intervals to see trends and hopefully reduce the variability.

Another thought is to use an oil with less VI or a monograde oil. I may have to resort to this solution but I was hoping to be able to use a multigrade oil for daily driving. My commute is < 4 mi and ambient temps are still quite cool.

Mike

iTrader: (1)

Ah.

Precisely why I asked if this was your first 300V change. Try to use it for a few intervals as suggested.

I have a hard time imagining you being harder on your car than I am, so the oil REALLY shouldn't be shearing. Le Mans and WRC teams use the same stuff we buy off the shelf with no issue....

ipitythefoo

iTrader: (8)

Mike is helping out someone who is accepting the help? WOW what a day. I want to grow up to be....like MIKE!

MiLK_MD

iTrader: (1)

Useful info from Mike. He backed his statements with evidence in contrast to a lot of other recommendations in forums which tend to be opinion based.

My concern was not the Al but rather the viscosity of the oil which seemed to have sheared down after such a short interval. Most likely the viscosity is secondary to artifact rather than any abuse I may have put on the oil. As others have done, I will confirm with sequential OCI using the same oil.

Final question: should I attempt to use 5W30? I would like to try from a power perspective. Data logs show more than adequate oil pressure even at elevated temps with 5W40 and since the 300V 5W30 has such high HTHS I am curious to try even with the looming summer temps.

Mike

iTrader: (1)

If your readings are accurate on the oil temp, then yes. My oil temps are higher than yours, albeit with a different engine, and I've suffered no ill effects.

Limp activates at ~260, so I see no reason for you to manually disable the limp mode.

FWIW, 5W40 shouldn't hurt your power much; 300V is already "more slick" than most oils at a lower viscosity. I believe they also make a 10W40 if you'd like to try that.

How low are the ambient temps you see? If they're really low and you want to run a thicker grade oil, you could always add an accusump and/or a oil-to-water oil cooler.

MiLK_MD

iTrader: (1)

Low ambient temps were down to the 30s but that's over now. I'm gearing up for the summer heat and track temps often exceed 100 F. I didn't need an oil cooler for the winter season but I am sure I will need one for the summer.

Regarding the accuracy of the oil temp, where in the circuit would you suggest is the most accurate? I am drawing temps off the OEM temp sensor. I have found oil pan temps to be about the same.

Mike

iTrader: (1)

As long as the readings are consistent, it should be okay. Do you happen to know where the 370z picks up the oil temp?

I'm surprised you didn't hit limp, even in the winter.

I'm leaning toward a non-pure 300V sample, because I've never seen 300V break down like that before, even if its an old formulation that's been sitting around for years.


FWIW, we do have a board member that works for a (very well funded) race team and is pretty high up. They use 300V in their race bikes, and these things are run at 100% capacity for a weekend at a time... with no problems.


Even extreme heat shouldn't break down the oil. You'd see other symptoms.


On the other hand, I do believe not too many VQ37VHR owners UOA their 300V. I'd like to see some more samples before passing judgement.

MiLK_MD

iTrader: (1)

Here is a pic of the oil pressure sender and temp sender (photo courtesy of xlack and Weiboy from their thread about the oil pan spacer)



The reason I don't hit limp mode is because the stock harness is disconnected and a processed analog signal is sent to the ECU instead. I tapped the stock sensor to take my readings so I am assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that this location is an ideal place to take readings. I have used the factory resistance vs temperature table and re-calibrated. The readings seem valid and my standart operating temp is ~176 F.