The Pope

iTrader: (2)

Here's what I'm planning to do......

Buy one of these (configured the way I want it with the Quaife ATB) and swap it out myself. https://www.z1motorsports.com/z1-pro...07d27b46701bb8

Granted it's more $$$$'s than just installing a LSD, but if you don't have the skill-set and/or tools to do the LSD swap correct, this would be what I see as the next best option.

Do your research. Ask the questions. Take your time. Lastly, it's your money, so it's your choice.

14Q60awdSPORT

Chances are what you test drive wont have a good grippy tire.

14Q60awdSPORT

Check around with some local shops.
It does include the fluids (about $60), rear diff high cap cover ($200), and bushings($100), full R200 rebuild kit ($260) so I guess its $780 for labor,
but a shop might do it for about $500 and you may not need/want the cover, or bushings, and depending on the mileages of your differential you may only need/want a partial rebuild kit or not even need any of that kit.
Which could save you up to an additional $560 plus whatever you saved on labor.
if you want all those extra components, and your differential is getting up in mileage then its not so bad.

The Pope

iTrader: (2)

I've never dove into a differential, but I have worked on automatic transmissions and have rebuild engines. I do have the skill-set, but I've reached a stage of my life (closer to 60 than 50) that some things I'll totally let others do, some things I want to do all of and some things that fall in-between those. For me, the rear diff is one of those in-between things.

As to the Z1 Diff swap I posted, yes, if I upgrade the rear diff in my car, that's the path I'm taking. I'm not saying that it's the cheapest way to go, but the way I will go. My money, my choice.

14Q60awdSPORT

Not sure I understand your post, or maybe you didn't understand mine.

Not sure the difference in the two options besides one costing a lot more and one being a lot cheaper. both require YOU to do the same amount of work (potentially none) and both result in the exact same results, but one option is hundreds of dollars cheaper. but you are correct your money, your choice. If you want to spend more money on the same product that is your choice.

The Pope

iTrader: (2)

The cheaper way you mentioned requires someone remove the diff from the vehicle, to open up the diff case, remove the carrier, unbolt the ring gear, properly install ring gear on new LSD carrier, install new LSD carrier and ring gear assembly back into the diff case and correctly check/set the ring face contact and backlash, then reinstall the rear cover and reinstall the diff into the vehicle.

The Z1 option I mentioned would consist basically of.... removing the original diff from the vehicle, unpacking Fully Assembled diff (minus cover & fluid), attaching Z1 Diff cover, adding the fluids to the new diff from Z1, install new bushings, installing the new diff into the vehicle.

Hope that this clears up my prior post.

14Q60awdSPORT

Even more confusing now considering my first post.
"Check around with some local shops.
It does include the fluids (about $60), rear diff high cap cover ($200), and bushings($100), full R200 rebuild kit ($260) so I guess its $780 for labor,
but a shop might do it for about $500 and you may not need/want the cover, or bushings, and depending on the mileages of your differential you may only need/want a partial rebuild kit or not even need any of that kit.
Which could save you up to an additional $560 plus whatever you saved on labor.
if you want all those extra components, and your differential is getting up in mileage then its not so bad."

not sure the difference of z1 doing the work or x2 (random local shop) doing the work besides the first one being upwards of potentially $800 more, not to mention shipping a full diff assembly two ways assuming you use the core charge option.


with Z1 you are having them do the labor for rebuilding a differential and then shipping it to you, and then either A. you are pulling your diff assembly and installing new diff assembly yourself or B having a shop pull / install the diff

with X2 (random local shop) you are either A. pulling the diff assembly yourself taking it to a shop, having them rebuild the differential to your liking (instead of Z1 but for much cheaper as mentioned price breakdown before) and then reinstalling the differential yourself, so same as Z1 option A. but X2 does the rebuild instead of Z1 (saving money). Or B. you take to a shop and they pull the diff, rebuild the diff and install the diff, same as Z1 option B. but X2 does all the work (again saving money)

As mentioned, if you want all those additional parts Z1 includes to bring the price up and have a very old vehicle so a full rebuild kit might be warranted, then it may only be a couple hundred cheaper in labor for a local shop, it was just shy of $500 OTD when I had an LSD installed into a diff 2 years ago. I did not need to replace a single thing in the diff those parts last a while and are not impacted when installing an LSD, I only replaced axle oil seals which are like $10 each. So I basically saved $280 on labor + saving $240 on rebuild kit using a local shop instead of Z1 for labor of install cost + I had no core charge to pay initially and didn't have expensive 2 way shipping of a heavy diff, only shipping a small LSD to me. I sold another diff and shipped it once, it was not cheap or easy to ship. Not sure Z1 policy but most places do not cover return shipping for cores, potentially adding a good $200 in additional costs with 2 way shipping a diff. That could be $1000 more expensive for the same end results and same amount of work for you.

Does that clear up my 1st post?

The Pope

iTrader: (2)

Ok.... one more time....

The Z1 is a Fully Assembled Diff. That's the way they sale it. The customer would either swap out the diff in their vehicle or pay someone else to swap it out. Ok.... are we clear so far????

I Fully Understand the Price/Labor/Time/Core Charge/Shipping etc...... so again...... IF I were to upgrade my vehicles diff, I would go with the Z1 route and swap it out myself.

My money, my choice.

I do appreciate you trying to save me money, but my time and vehicle down time mean more to me.

14Q60awdSPORT

The Z1 is a fully assembled Diff, the price break down of the parts they use to the price they charge has them adding $780 beyond the price of the parts for their labor charge (not including core charge)
Included in the price of the parts is several components you most likely do not need or some you may not want further increasing the price unnecessarily.
Add in all the added shipping costs and you are looking at potentially upwards of $1000 more for Z1, for essentially the exact same end result.

The shop took one day to do the work, I pulled my diff Sunday night, dropped off my diff Monday morning, picked up my diff Tuesday morning, re installed my diff Tuesday evening and was back on the road Tuesday night.
Not saying all shops can have a 24h turn around time though. but someone could call around and see, they may even be able to get it out back to you the same day if planned ahead enough.

Maybe you are much more financially well off then a lot of people and $1000 higher price for the exact same end result is worth having 24hours less down time on your vehicle, if so then much kudos to you for being so well off.

My post/posts is also just general information for anyone (not specific to you, but also to you as well) whos interested in how to accomplish the exact same thing Z1 offers but for potentially upwards of $1000 less at zero difference in time/work for the customer, other then an extra day or two of vehicle down time.
Alternatively you can source a used clean low mileage R200 diff for under $400 eliminating any added down time, and potentially then saving you $600, although you can then sell your R200 Diff after to recoup most of that $400. Assuming you use Z1's core charge you are shipping out a diff either way.

If you still don't understand at this point, I don't think you ever will, I am 100% aware of everything Z1 offers and what is included in their product they offer and at what price points each component involved costs etc... I am also 100% aware of what is involved in doing exactly what Z1 offers yourself or using a shop or combination of the two. The product they offer isn't some special unique product, its a built differential, a local shop can easily do this same thing too, making it 100% exactly the same as Z1's offering or you can decide what of the components (bushings, high cap cover, rebuild kit) Z1 requires/charges you for in their product that you do/dont want to modify the end cost to bring it down. Also $780 in the labor they charge (price beyond the components they charge) may or may not be a steep price, but from my experience $780 is pretty steep, but different regions and current times could vary this greatly.

Of course you are more then welcome to spend your money however you like, to me personally if two people are offering the exact same end product but one is substantially cheaper, I know which one I would choose.

14Q60awdSPORT

Another much cheaper alternative, not as good as a true LSD but still pretty good and still better than the OEM VLSD in the RWD sports, or open diffs in others
https://www.tractionconcepts.com/Dat.../tcxda5327.htm

might be worth looking into for some people.

BULL

With used open diff's being under $150 if you're experimentally inclined you should give phantom grip a try.

With the proper springs and fresh fluid it will perform as intended, the issue with phantom grip lockers is that most folks who take this option took it for cost savings, the level of shenanigan's ended up being too much for it.
When these usually fail thanks to burnouts/driffting/improper clearences and overheating of fluid.

BULL

i was 5 minutes too late Great to know we think alike.

I'm a firm believer, just believe 90% of folks dont get the shims nor gear clearances right.

The Pope

iTrader: (2)

How mush is a 4 hour turnaround worth to you? It's worth a lot to me....

Yes, I get your point and it's great information for others and this is a great discussion!

14Q60awdSPORT

I have a second vehicle, and also I’m not loaded so for $1000 bucks difference I’d sacrifice a lot of down time.

my build thread I’ve done over the course of about 4 months. So my car pretty much lives on my quickjacks lol. I have a tendency to wrench on them more than actually drive them.

14Q60awdSPORT

do you have one? I’ve been debating about getting one or not.