How to drive the 6MT G37S
05-03-2010, 02:10 PM
#61
Side note: why doesn't the clutch like being disengaged at higher rpms? For example - I'll have to slow down for someone while in first. I've had this odd habit of disengaging the clutch FIRST, and then slowing down. Seems to be making a ruckus then, but not when I slow down first, and then disengaged the clutch. Thoughts?
From what you're saying, something funky happens when you disengage and slow down while you're in neutral?
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05-03-2010, 02:15 PM
#62
^ whoops, apologies. i'm solely going on what I hear. what I meant: I can hear the clutch disengaging from inside of the cabin (sounds clunky) when I depreciate the clutch while in first at around 2.9k rpm versus when I slow down to where the rpm in first is around 1k and then depreciate the clutch (to put in neutral; no clunky 
) and then slow down. like i said, this is my first manual car, and i really do apologize if i sound...idiotic 
.
whacha think ucla?
) and then slow down. like i said, this is my first manual car, and i really do apologize if i sound...idiotic .whacha think ucla?
05-03-2010, 02:27 PM
#63
^ whoops, apologies. i'm solely going on what I hear. what I meant: I can hear the clutch disengaging from inside of the cabin (sounds clunky) when I depreciate the clutch while in first at around 2.9k rpm versus when I slow down to where the rpm in first is around 1k and then depreciate the clutch (to put in neutral; no clunky ) and then slow down. like i said, this is my first manual car, and i really do apologize if i sound...idiotic .
whacha think ucla?
) and then slow down. like i said, this is my first manual car, and i really do apologize if i sound...idiotic .whacha think ucla?
Try this. Go to high rpm in 1st, but hold the gas enough to maintain you speed close to redline. Press the clutch. You should have no clunk (or minimal). Your RPMS will also bounce, but that's beside the point.
05-03-2010, 04:58 PM
#64
load part makes sense now. realized that by letting off the gas and giving it a second and then disengaging the clutch gave me no "clunking" lol - now i now that it was ^ you said. is that...bad for the clutch/tranny?
thanks again mike,
eric
thanks again mike,
eric
05-03-2010, 05:02 PM
#65
I have no idea if it's bad... something has to take the change in load, either the clutch will take it slipping, or something in the drivetrain is taking a shock.
I'd imagine the clutch is easier to replace.... but I've never had any real problems with any of the MT cars I've had with this (in terms of long term problems)
I'd imagine the clutch is easier to replace.... but I've never had any real problems with any of the MT cars I've had with this (in terms of long term problems)
05-03-2010, 05:54 PM
#66
I have to ask ^ how the hell do you launch the thing?
Not planning to do so for a while, but it'd be nice to know
Bring rpms up to 3-4k and then...drop the clutch? lol
Oh and Mike, can you explain what the benefits of the aftermarket (I'm assuming) flywheel you have is? Taking advantage as best I can! haha
Not planning to do so for a while, but it'd be nice to know
Bring rpms up to 3-4k and then...drop the clutch?
lolOh and Mike, can you explain what the benefits of the aftermarket (I'm assuming) flywheel you have is? Taking advantage as best I can! haha
05-03-2010, 06:24 PM
#67
Faster changes in RPM. It goes up faster (for throttle blips) and down faster (between shifts when shifting up).
It comes with a very large price.
Increased noise, increased harshness, much harsher clutch engagement, and significant loss of power at the bottom end when starting from a stop.
The G's stock flywheel is 27 lbs. The Honda that I DD is 22 lbs stock. The flywheel holds energy exponentially (square) of its rotational velocity, so my 8 lb flywheel holds roughly 1/12th the KE of the stock G's flywheel. Everyone stalls the car
On the flip side, I don't have to really watch my RPMs on downshifts. The engine RPM can change so quickly that I just have a generic throttle blip that works for all downshifts. At higher RPM, the revs climb faster since the engine makes more power anyways, so its perfect for my preferences. Most people will hate light flywheels.
It comes with a very large price.
Increased noise, increased harshness, much harsher clutch engagement, and significant loss of power at the bottom end when starting from a stop.
The G's stock flywheel is 27 lbs. The Honda that I DD is 22 lbs stock. The flywheel holds energy exponentially (square) of its rotational velocity, so my 8 lb flywheel holds roughly 1/12th the KE of the stock G's flywheel. Everyone stalls the car
On the flip side, I don't have to really watch my RPMs on downshifts. The engine RPM can change so quickly that I just have a generic throttle blip that works for all downshifts. At higher RPM, the revs climb faster since the engine makes more power anyways, so its perfect for my preferences. Most people will hate light flywheels.
05-03-2010, 07:26 PM
#69
Yeah, except going from a 3 lb pulley to a 2 lb pulley of 4-5" diameter isn't going to quite have the same effect as going from a 22 lb flywheel to a 8 lb flywheel of ~12" diameter =P
Identical concept though. The "reduced power loss" isn't really worth getting a flywheel. The only real reason to do so is to change how the car responds to input, or if you happen to need a new clutch/flywheel/pressure plate due to wear and tear.
Identical concept though. The "reduced power loss" isn't really worth getting a flywheel. The only real reason to do so is to change how the car responds to input, or if you happen to need a new clutch/flywheel/pressure plate due to wear and tear.
05-03-2010, 08:53 PM
#70
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So quick question about normal shifting through gears with the G. When going from 1st to 2nd, I do a lot of feathering with the clutch to get a smooth shift, and then going from 2nd-3rd, 3rd-4th etc I pretty much left off the gas completey, depress the clutch about 60-75% and start applying the gas again just as the clutch grabs the next gear. From reading other posts it sounds like this may be causing undue stress on the clutch. Unfortunately this method of mine is about the only way I can keep shifts smooth throughout my rotation. Can someone comment on my shifting method? Just want to make sure I won't be in for a clutch change at 40K miles.
05-04-2010, 02:04 AM
#71
not sure if i can help - Mike seems pretty knowledgeable, i'm sure he'll chime in.
i do something similar, but i depreciate the clutch all the way to the floor. going from 2nd to 3rd (or to and from any other adjacent gear), i depreciate the clutch completely the floor, shift, and then elevate the clutch to catch the rpm at the right spot (have to be rather quick). i've noticed if i elevate the clutch too quickly, the car jolts forward to where it wants to be in the powerband. feathering seems to be a "do when you need to" thing. i'd imagine feathering only promotes wear and tear between the plates (pressure plate + whatever it grabs onto)? you're basically just riding the clutch, no? sorry if that wasn't much help...
from what i understand, it seems that it's best to get off the clutch as quickly as possible, without...killing your car..?
i do something similar, but i depreciate the clutch all the way to the floor. going from 2nd to 3rd (or to and from any other adjacent gear), i depreciate the clutch completely the floor, shift, and then elevate the clutch to catch the rpm at the right spot (have to be rather quick). i've noticed if i elevate the clutch too quickly, the car jolts forward to where it wants to be in the powerband. feathering seems to be a "do when you need to" thing. i'd imagine feathering only promotes wear and tear between the plates (pressure plate + whatever it grabs onto)? you're basically just riding the clutch, no? sorry if that wasn't much help...
from what i understand, it seems that it's best to get off the clutch as quickly as possible, without...killing your car..?
05-04-2010, 10:47 AM
#72
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I'm in the 7th month with my 09 6MT and even though I only have 5k miles on the car, 90% of them are in stop and go traffic. So I'm using the clutch a lot.
Initial reaction was that that was the worst MT I have ever owned. It was so hard to make it go smooth consistently. If the pick up point was smooth then the rpms were wrong and if the rpms were right the pick up was not there. And there were countless variations in between. I was getting frustrated quick. I'm used to making my MT cars go smoother than any slush box out there and this car was making a fool out of me.
What helped me was that mod where you take out the damper spring from the clutch pedal(there is a thread somewhere in the DYI I think)
With that I could at least tell where the engaging point was cause now I could feel the clutch engaging and disengaging. I still had to learn to hold the rpms just right during shifts but now it was half as hard.
About a month ago I put the spring back in because I was getting tired of the heavy feel. I was pleasantly surprised to see that my left foot had learned exactly where the engaging point was even though I wasn't feeling the clutch anymore. Also, holding the rpms just right between shifts had became a second nature by then and so I was eventually happy with it.
It certainly is not a car that you can tell to your friends "here, take it for a spin, it's easy"
Like others have said, It doesn't like 'lazy' shifts and you need to be working on that gas pedal as much as the clutch to make it go smooth. I don't mean 'riding' the clutch. Just holding the rpms in the right range while you complete the shift so that the car won't jump or bog on you.
Funny thing is that I never had any issues with the clutch while driving it fast. In fact it does like it when you make quick upshifts in the higher powerband.
But then again, ferrying the kids around in the morning and a busy commute back home doesn't let me do that very often
tl;dr version: Be patient with it, it takes a while to get used to it.
Stratos.-
Initial reaction was that that was the worst MT I have ever owned. It was so hard to make it go smooth consistently. If the pick up point was smooth then the rpms were wrong and if the rpms were right the pick up was not there. And there were countless variations in between. I was getting frustrated quick. I'm used to making my MT cars go smoother than any slush box out there and this car was making a fool out of me.
What helped me was that mod where you take out the damper spring from the clutch pedal(there is a thread somewhere in the DYI I think)
With that I could at least tell where the engaging point was cause now I could feel the clutch engaging and disengaging. I still had to learn to hold the rpms just right during shifts but now it was half as hard.
About a month ago I put the spring back in because I was getting tired of the heavy feel. I was pleasantly surprised to see that my left foot had learned exactly where the engaging point was even though I wasn't feeling the clutch anymore. Also, holding the rpms just right between shifts had became a second nature by then and so I was eventually happy with it.
It certainly is not a car that you can tell to your friends "here, take it for a spin, it's easy"
Like others have said, It doesn't like 'lazy' shifts and you need to be working on that gas pedal as much as the clutch to make it go smooth. I don't mean 'riding' the clutch. Just holding the rpms in the right range while you complete the shift so that the car won't jump or bog on you.
Funny thing is that I never had any issues with the clutch while driving it fast. In fact it does like it when you make quick upshifts in the higher powerband.
But then again, ferrying the kids around in the morning and a busy commute back home doesn't let me do that very often
tl;dr version: Be patient with it, it takes a while to get used to it.
Stratos.-
05-04-2010, 02:51 PM
#75
I'm in the 7th month with my 09 6MT and even though I only have 5k miles on the car, 90% of them are in stop and go traffic. So I'm using the clutch a lot.
Initial reaction was that that was the worst MT I have ever owned. It was so hard to make it go smooth consistently. If the pick up point was smooth then the rpms were wrong and if the rpms were right the pick up was not there. And there were countless variations in between. I was getting frustrated quick. I'm used to making my MT cars go smoother than any slush box out there and this car was making a fool out of me.
What helped me was that mod where you take out the damper spring from the clutch pedal(there is a thread somewhere in the DYI I think)
With that I could at least tell where the engaging point was cause now I could feel the clutch engaging and disengaging. I still had to learn to hold the rpms just right during shifts but now it was half as hard.
About a month ago I put the spring back in because I was getting tired of the heavy feel. I was pleasantly surprised to see that my left foot had learned exactly where the engaging point was even though I wasn't feeling the clutch anymore. Also, holding the rpms just right between shifts had became a second nature by then and so I was eventually happy with it.
It certainly is not a car that you can tell to your friends "here, take it for a spin, it's easy"
Like others have said, It doesn't like 'lazy' shifts and you need to be working on that gas pedal as much as the clutch to make it go smooth. I don't mean 'riding' the clutch. Just holding the rpms in the right range while you complete the shift so that the car won't jump or bog on you.
Funny thing is that I never had any issues with the clutch while driving it fast. In fact it does like it when you make quick upshifts in the higher powerband.
But then again, ferrying the kids around in the morning and a busy commute back home doesn't let me do that very often
tl;dr version: Be patient with it, it takes a while to get used to it.
Stratos.-
Initial reaction was that that was the worst MT I have ever owned. It was so hard to make it go smooth consistently. If the pick up point was smooth then the rpms were wrong and if the rpms were right the pick up was not there. And there were countless variations in between. I was getting frustrated quick. I'm used to making my MT cars go smoother than any slush box out there and this car was making a fool out of me.
What helped me was that mod where you take out the damper spring from the clutch pedal(there is a thread somewhere in the DYI I think)
With that I could at least tell where the engaging point was cause now I could feel the clutch engaging and disengaging. I still had to learn to hold the rpms just right during shifts but now it was half as hard.
About a month ago I put the spring back in because I was getting tired of the heavy feel. I was pleasantly surprised to see that my left foot had learned exactly where the engaging point was even though I wasn't feeling the clutch anymore. Also, holding the rpms just right between shifts had became a second nature by then and so I was eventually happy with it.
It certainly is not a car that you can tell to your friends "here, take it for a spin, it's easy"
Like others have said, It doesn't like 'lazy' shifts and you need to be working on that gas pedal as much as the clutch to make it go smooth. I don't mean 'riding' the clutch. Just holding the rpms in the right range while you complete the shift so that the car won't jump or bog on you.
Funny thing is that I never had any issues with the clutch while driving it fast. In fact it does like it when you make quick upshifts in the higher powerband.
But then again, ferrying the kids around in the morning and a busy commute back home doesn't let me do that very often
tl;dr version: Be patient with it, it takes a while to get used to it.
Stratos.-