freesurfer

This is just one opinion, but something of interest... Are Paddle Shifters slower than using the DS Shifter? Is there anything more than a butt dyno to test it?

mozy

iTrader: (2)

I don't know how that would be possible....

Both the paddles and the shifter are just electronic switches (buttons), there is no direct link to the transmission to change the gears.

Electrons don't magically travel faster if the switch is closer to the transmission.

Exige

iTrader: (4)

/\ I agree not sure how that would be possible...

amg35

iTrader: (3)

Unfortunately, this transmission is slow whether you use the paddles or the shifter.

beerme986

iTrader: (2)

no its the same, all in your head about which shifts faster

terrycs

iTrader: (37)

On a stock AT, M, D and DS all take that same amount of time going from one gear to the next.

However if a shift kit is installed, DS will certainly shift faster than M (at least on my car). I'm not certain if it's by design or if it's because DS mode takes the RPM closer to redline than I can do in M. Trying to hit redline in M mode at exactly the right time is pretty tough to do. With a shift kit, Higher RPM = Higher line pressure = Higher clamping force

Ivoidwarranties

iTrader: (7)

For those of you who think that the paddles shift just as fast as the shifter does, you need to come take a ride in my girlfriends G37. There is no question what so ever that the paddles have a noticable delay compared to the stick. I've asked about this before and a few people have found the same thing.

I understand it's an electric signal from both. I got out the shop manual and researched all I could about the DS and what drives the shifts when in manual. I could not find anything that would cause such a huge delay other than the paddle shifters have to go through the CAN bus. I did not find anywhere that the shifter is directed through there. There are A LOT of wiring diagrams and I started to get lost tracing out the signals, so my research is still incomplete at this time. However, I might prove myself wrong later, but I think the delay is because the signal from the paddle shifters takes a different route via the CAN bus before it goes to the TCM while the shifter goes straight to the TCM. CAN buses are notorious for causing slow response times with some signals.

The Jewbag

iTrader: (1)

^^^Agreed! I feel the same way and everyone tells me I'm crazy. They definitely feel slower!

mozy

iTrader: (2)

Its all CAN. Its all in your head... or maybe there's a difference in switches between the shifter and paddles. Paddles might have a longer travel time for activation.

E.G.:



vs

Ivoidwarranties

iTrader: (7)

Yeah, it must be in our heads... that's why this question comes up every so often by a completely random member.


Box diagrams don't cut it.

mozy

iTrader: (2)

I'm sorry but weren't you the one questioning the path shift signals/wiring took? Looks like they both travel the same way... through an amplifier, over CAN and into the TCM. Took 2 minutes to find that in the service manual.

Logically there wouldn't be any difference, physically there may be variations (thus the hint I gave about the switches in my previous post), programmatically... who the hell knows? Maybe the engineers who worked on the car.

Will we really ever know? Sure, through scientific experimentation. But who really cares THAT much?

Ivoidwarranties

iTrader: (7)

Sorry if I came off harsh, I was in a rush. Thanks for posting that box diagram. I tend not to go by box diagrams when trying to answer this type of question. That's solely due to the line of work I'm in. I tried using the wiring diagrams but got tired of switching pages and decided I needed to print them out to look at the hard copies. I haven't done that yet.

You are right that it could be the type of switch. I agree that it makes no sense that they should be different. I happen to care that much. I want to know why it takes longer. I have nothing better to do in life than try to figure out why things don't work like I want them to.

I hate that it takes three to four hundred rpm for the transmission to react after I hit the stick (manual shift) while in drive sport. I hate it even more that it takes the paddle shifters two or three hundred RPM more to react than it does the stick. I'm not going to all this trouble because it's in my head. There is a definite lag between the two that has been witnessed and felt by more than a few people.

Shifting of the transmission is another story in itself. This car could really be improved by a shift kit or valve body. If this was my car, gears and a shift kit would be my top two priorities.

mozy

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, my bad too. Its just so easy to be a keyboard cowboy when you're hidden behind a screen

A bit off topic here: So you have wiring diagrams... do you by any chance have the Consult II/III manual? Or any info on the CAN bus?
I've been searching for a while, came up with some old document explaining some CAN PID's and how to talk to the Consult via serial port but its not very thorough...

Ivoidwarranties

iTrader: (7)

I don't think I have much. I know I don't have the Consult II/III manual you're talking about but I do have (or did) have some info on the CAN bus I gathered a while back. I have to go looking though.