FI Decision Thread
03-25-2010, 02:15 PM
#136
However, the heat capacity of WEG solutions are LESS than that of water. So to get the same cooling capacity as pure water, the volume of WEG circulated must be INCREASED.
The main benefit or using WEG is the increased temperature range of cooling.....
I would guess that some amount of WEG is probably added to the water to prevent from freezing. (Ive only owned a car with an air to air IC so Im not 100% familiar with air to water or the amount of WEG added) Otherwise, whats to prevent the water from freezing if you park your car outside overnight in the wintertime. The last thing you want is water freezing in lines in your car. But the more WEG you add, the less cooling capacity the fluid has.
Last edited by philter25; 03-25-2010 at 02:32 PM.
03-25-2010, 02:24 PM
#138
Air-to-water IC (usually incorrectly referred to as a Aftercooler) are more efficient at pulling out heat, but are more prone to heat soak, since most kits are not designed for long pulls and/or long sessions of WOT. A heat exchanger has to be used to keep the water temp down. For short sprints, this is awesome, as you can ice down the AC to cool your charge temperature even more.
Vortech kits often use a air-to-water IC on other cars... but most people running much more than the kit's stock power usually swap out to a air-to-air IC. See their Mustang or S2000 kits for example.
The design remains yet to be proven... only time will tell.
Vortech kits often use a air-to-water IC on other cars... but most people running much more than the kit's stock power usually swap out to a air-to-air IC. See their Mustang or S2000 kits for example.
The design remains yet to be proven... only time will tell.
Im very interested in getting a more detailed schematic of their manifold with the IC built into it. Id be curious to know the surface area of the IC and if the volume of water circulated can be increased for better cooling.... although Im sure Stillen looked at this when sizing the pump to go with their system.
Also, wouldnt the location of the air to water IC also suffer from heat soak from the engine being that its essentially a top mounted intercooler on top of the engine?
Last edited by philter25; 03-25-2010 at 02:39 PM.
03-25-2010, 02:35 PM
#139
Agreed.
Im very interested in getting a more detailed schematic of their manifold with the IC built into it. Id be curious to know the surface area of the IC and if the volume of water circulated can be increased for better cooling.
Also, wouldnt the location of the air to water IC also suffer from heat soak from the engine being that its essentially a top mounted intercooler on top of the engine?
Im very interested in getting a more detailed schematic of their manifold with the IC built into it. Id be curious to know the surface area of the IC and if the volume of water circulated can be increased for better cooling.
Also, wouldnt the location of the air to water IC also suffer from heat soak from the engine being that its essentially a top mounted intercooler on top of the engine?
Innovation is always good, and this would pave the way for a spectacular comeback for Stillen.
03-25-2010, 02:38 PM
#140
Agreed.
Im very interested in getting a more detailed schematic of their manifold with the IC built into it. Id be curious to know the surface area of the IC and if the volume of water circulated can be increased for better cooling.... although Im sure Stillen looked at this when sizing the pump to go with their system.
Also, wouldnt the location of the air to water IC also suffer from heat soak from the engine being that its essentially a top mounted intercooler on top of the engine?
Im very interested in getting a more detailed schematic of their manifold with the IC built into it. Id be curious to know the surface area of the IC and if the volume of water circulated can be increased for better cooling.... although Im sure Stillen looked at this when sizing the pump to go with their system.
Also, wouldnt the location of the air to water IC also suffer from heat soak from the engine being that its essentially a top mounted intercooler on top of the engine?
03-25-2010, 02:40 PM
#142
With sufficient flow, I doubt heat radiated from the engine would be enough to significantly change the temperature of the water flowing in the lines. It's similar to how the tubes of a CAI aren't hot after a hard drive... the flow is so much that it just makes the radiated heat in the engine bay moot..
03-25-2010, 02:45 PM
#145
But seriously, that would have the same/similar effect as icing down the aftercooler and/or putting ice in the resovoir.
What would be the weight penalty of doing all this? The kit, wires for relocating the battery, chiller, lines for the chiller, etc. Relocating all this to the back would help a bit with weight balance, to a degree.
03-25-2010, 02:48 PM
#146
^ in addition to relocating the water lines to the trunk, additional lines and bends are going to cause additional losses, which might cause a reduction in flow through the air to water intercooler.... and any reduction in flow reduces the amount of heat that the water can take out of the intake charge. Depending on how much additional cooling you can get by relocating it to the trunk, it might not be worth your while. And if you can only realistically get a few additional degrees of cooling, thats a lot of work and additional relocation just to get that.
Hence why I'd like to see a more detailed schematic or a flow chart of their custom designed manifold.
Ehhh.... I dont know if I agree with that. But I guess time will tell!
To a degree yes, but it shouldn't (theoretically in my mind) be that much. The intake manifold from the factory already gets pretty hot, and it doesn't affect performance much. Air temp of the intake charge is already pretty warm. Of course if the water inside the Aftercooler gets heated by the engine, that's not good. It all depends on the location of the aftercooler in the manifold, and how much heat is conducted to it. I really hope Stillen follows through on this with a spectacular design.
Innovation is always good, and this would pave the way for a spectacular comeback for Stillen.
Innovation is always good, and this would pave the way for a spectacular comeback for Stillen.
Ehhh.... I dont know if I agree with that. But I guess time will tell!
03-25-2010, 02:50 PM
#147
You gonna be the first one with a vented trunk?
But seriously, that would have the same/similar effect as icing down the aftercooler and/or putting ice in the resovoir.
What would be the weight penalty of doing all this? The kit, wires for relocating the battery, chiller, lines for the chiller, etc. Relocating all this to the back would help a bit with weight balance, to a degree.
But seriously, that would have the same/similar effect as icing down the aftercooler and/or putting ice in the resovoir.
What would be the weight penalty of doing all this? The kit, wires for relocating the battery, chiller, lines for the chiller, etc. Relocating all this to the back would help a bit with weight balance, to a degree.
03-25-2010, 02:51 PM
#148
The air inside would (minimally) cool the manifold/engine....
Now that I think about it, I think the little air conditioner I have for a single room is rated at like 9000 BTU... and I think the charge would require a rather large amount of cooling to be noticable...
Any physics experts want to chime in with some calculations?
Now that I think about it, I think the little air conditioner I have for a single room is rated at like 9000 BTU... and I think the charge would require a rather large amount of cooling to be noticable...
Any physics experts want to chime in with some calculations?
03-25-2010, 02:56 PM
#149
Also Stillen did ALOT of testing, Im sure they have taken into acount all of this.
Repeated high speed runs in excess of 140mph
Temperature monitoring (just a few of the many data points we collected during our testing)
IAT pre and post intercooler under hard driving conditions
Engine Oil under hard driving conditions
Intercooler coolant under hard driving conditions
Transmission performance under hard driving conditions
Effects of airflow to new coolers without impeding flow to radiator under hard driving conditions
Transmission stability – starts, cornering, up and down shifts under loads
General drivability - part-throttle, full-throttle, stops, starts, different loaded conditions
Temperature monitoring (just a few of the many data points we collected during our testing)
IAT pre and post intercooler under hard driving conditions
Engine Oil under hard driving conditions
Intercooler coolant under hard driving conditions
Transmission performance under hard driving conditions
Effects of airflow to new coolers without impeding flow to radiator under hard driving conditions
Transmission stability – starts, cornering, up and down shifts under loads
General drivability - part-throttle, full-throttle, stops, starts, different loaded conditions
03-25-2010, 03:00 PM
#150
TBH, repeated low-speed WOT runs are much harder to keep cool than repeated high-speed WOT runs, due to decreased airflow through the engine bay.
E.G. guys who hit limp mode at Streets of Willow (technical track) vs guys who can do WOT runs on the freeway for extended periods of time (5+ minutes at WOT 95% of the time) without hitting limp mode.
E.G. guys who hit limp mode at Streets of Willow (technical track) vs guys who can do WOT runs on the freeway for extended periods of time (5+ minutes at WOT 95% of the time) without hitting limp mode.