MY 1st Oil Change with Ester OIL
03-05-2010, 01:33 PM
#61
Registered User
4Wheelkillr, There's no explaining why Nissan didn't do many of the ECU reflashes
at the factory....or even before delivery. You hit the nail on the head and
it just tells me Nissan just wasn't telling their dealers what to do, or that
the dealers really don't pay attention. I can tell you that I complained about
my car being delivered without two TSBs being accomplished, and I also
complained in detail about not being told as a three time repeat Infiniti
customer that $12/quart oil was "recommended" for my new car, that
4 dealers I personally spoke to didn't even have it, know that it was
recommended, and none of them could explain why it is recommmended.
As a result of my complaint to Nissan/Infiniti, they gave me a
three year service package that includes Nissan Ester oil changes.
I totally agree with your sentiment on the issue. I got sick of the
the speculation about this oil and the many unsubstantiated
claims that other oils work just as well in this engine.
(the few UOAs that there are disprove these claims in
my opinion), so I did many many hours of
reseach on the oil, how it works, why they developed it, what
is different about the new VQ37 engine, etc, etc, etc. I'm just
one of those people who wants to find things out for myself.
Bottom line is, I feel let down by Infiniti for not explaining to me,
and others that they recommed their proprietory oil in the new G,
and that my driving would require oil changes every three months, when
the general automotive trend is towards longer OCIs Hell, even
my motorcycles that share engine oil with the transmissions have
longer service intervals than the G! Nissan just hasn't made any
effort to explain anything well to their customers about
their oil and why they recommend it. MOST Service Managers
are just ignorant about the entire subject, and franky
intentionally tell customers "we recommend and use
------------", WHY?, because they make a higher profit margin
on their bulk oil changes compared to almost no
profit margin on the Nissan oil. and quite honestly
there are many more owners (including some on this board)
who know more on the subject than the dealerships.
My opinion (for what it's worth, LOL) is that Nissan hasn't
done themselves or their customers any favors.
at the factory....or even before delivery. You hit the nail on the head and
it just tells me Nissan just wasn't telling their dealers what to do, or that
the dealers really don't pay attention. I can tell you that I complained about
my car being delivered without two TSBs being accomplished, and I also
complained in detail about not being told as a three time repeat Infiniti
customer that $12/quart oil was "recommended" for my new car, that
4 dealers I personally spoke to didn't even have it, know that it was
recommended, and none of them could explain why it is recommmended.
As a result of my complaint to Nissan/Infiniti, they gave me a
three year service package that includes Nissan Ester oil changes.
I totally agree with your sentiment on the issue. I got sick of the
the speculation about this oil and the many unsubstantiated
claims that other oils work just as well in this engine.
(the few UOAs that there are disprove these claims in
my opinion), so I did many many hours of
reseach on the oil, how it works, why they developed it, what
is different about the new VQ37 engine, etc, etc, etc. I'm just
one of those people who wants to find things out for myself.
Bottom line is, I feel let down by Infiniti for not explaining to me,
and others that they recommed their proprietory oil in the new G,
and that my driving would require oil changes every three months, when
the general automotive trend is towards longer OCIs Hell, even
my motorcycles that share engine oil with the transmissions have
longer service intervals than the G! Nissan just hasn't made any
effort to explain anything well to their customers about
their oil and why they recommend it. MOST Service Managers
are just ignorant about the entire subject, and franky
intentionally tell customers "we recommend and use
------------", WHY?, because they make a higher profit margin
on their bulk oil changes compared to almost no
profit margin on the Nissan oil. and quite honestly
there are many more owners (including some on this board)
who know more on the subject than the dealerships.
My opinion (for what it's worth, LOL) is that Nissan hasn't
done themselves or their customers any favors.
Last edited by JonfromCB; 03-05-2010 at 01:53 PM.
03-08-2010, 01:31 PM
#63
Registered User
4Wheelkillr, There's no explaining why Nissan didn't do many of the ECU reflashes...
I totally agree with your sentiment on the issue. I got sick of the
the speculation about this oil and the many unsubstantiated
claims that other oils work just as well in this engine.
(the few UOAs that there are disprove these claims in
my opinion), ...
I totally agree with your sentiment on the issue. I got sick of the
the speculation about this oil and the many unsubstantiated
claims that other oils work just as well in this engine.
(the few UOAs that there are disprove these claims in
my opinion), ...
There's a few oils I'd like to try and, like you, will find this out for myself. I've used M1 for many years in all my cars and bikes and I think it's a mighty fine oil. I think on my new G37 I'll start with the Ester because that's what's i there from the factory. I'll get my dealer to use Ester (free oil change) and I'll pay for 1 more Ester change and do it myself. This will get me around the 10,000 mile mark. I'll run my own UOA on that final ester change as hopefully the car will be worn in enough to eliminate most of the wear metals that should be expected in the earlier changes.
Then I'll switch to M1, do another few thousand and test it again. Then maybe one other one...maybe Shell Rotella T6 (same stuff I use in my bike) and maybe Pennzoil Platinum (i've heard a lot of "buzz" about this oil but not sure if it's really up to snuff). I guess time will tell.
03-08-2010, 11:58 PM
#65
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03-09-2010, 10:16 AM
#66
Registered User
Well this doesn't necessarily mean the latter is true does it not? Simply because other oils don't work well in this engine, doesn't necessarily mean that the "Nissan Ester" works any better. All of the oils may produce the same amount of wear or have the same additive packages. Honestly, what I'd really like to see is a whole serious of UOAs all next to each other.
There's a few oils I'd like to try and, like you, will find this out for myself. I've used M1 for many years in all my cars and bikes and I think it's a mighty fine oil. I think on my new G37 I'll start with the Ester because that's what's i there from the factory. I'll get my dealer to use Ester (free oil change) and I'll pay for 1 more Ester change and do it myself. This will get me around the 10,000 mile mark. I'll run my own UOA on that final ester change as hopefully the car will be worn in enough to eliminate most of the wear metals that should be expected in the earlier changes.
Then I'll switch to M1, do another few thousand and test it again. Then maybe one other one...maybe Shell Rotella T6 (same stuff I use in my bike) and maybe Pennzoil Platinum (i've heard a lot of "buzz" about this oil but not sure if it's really up to snuff). I guess time will tell.
There's a few oils I'd like to try and, like you, will find this out for myself. I've used M1 for many years in all my cars and bikes and I think it's a mighty fine oil. I think on my new G37 I'll start with the Ester because that's what's i there from the factory. I'll get my dealer to use Ester (free oil change) and I'll pay for 1 more Ester change and do it myself. This will get me around the 10,000 mile mark. I'll run my own UOA on that final ester change as hopefully the car will be worn in enough to eliminate most of the wear metals that should be expected in the earlier changes.
Then I'll switch to M1, do another few thousand and test it again. Then maybe one other one...maybe Shell Rotella T6 (same stuff I use in my bike) and maybe Pennzoil Platinum (i've heard a lot of "buzz" about this oil but not sure if it's really up to snuff). I guess time will tell.
better but was trying to avoid getting into what would seem like
a "stupid opiniated dislike of M1" I used M1 since it came out in
1976 (yes I'm old). Original blends had a high percentage of
ester basestock and it got a great and well deserved reputation.
Over the years they have reformulated multiple times, to
meet new API certifications/and or cut production cost.
Long-story-short, it doens't have much ester left in it....
to the point that I consider it just an "additive" to another
hydro-cracked synthetic oil.
It's still very good oil, I still use their VTwin in one of my
Harleys. I used M1 in my first VQ35 and got "so-so"
UOAs. Not bad, just higher wear metals and more
shearing than was acceptable to me in that engine, so
I switched to Rotella T-Syn in that engine and my next VQ35
with much improved UOAs. Based on my results, I sure
would never use it in a VVEL for a longer than 3750 interval.
That's just my opinon, and I would encourage anyone
using it to study other UOAs before using it in their VQs
and do UOAs if they are using it.
03-09-2010, 12:11 PM
#67
To add, I think a lot of people either don't know, or disregard that VVEL can generate an incredible amount of heat in a short time under load, and heat destroys oil.
In an ideal world, I'd like to know how exactly the "nissan ester oil" is affected by heat.
In an ideal world, I'd like to know how exactly the "nissan ester oil" is affected by heat.
03-09-2010, 12:12 PM
#68
Registered User
4Wheel', Fair enough, and I should have explained my comments
better but was trying to avoid getting into what would seem like
a "stupid opiniated dislike of M1" I used M1 since it came out in
1976 (yes I'm old). Original blends had a high percentage of
ester basestock and it got a great and well deserved reputation.
Over the years they have reformulated multiple times, to
meet new API certifications/and or cut production cost.
Long-story-short, it doens't have much ester left in it....
to the point that I consider it just an "additive" to another
hydro-cracked synthetic oil.
It's still very good oil, I still use their VTwin in one of my
Harleys. I used M1 in my first VQ35 and got "so-so"
UOAs. Not bad, just higher wear metals and more
shearing than was acceptable to me in that engine, so
I switched to Rotella T-Syn in that engine and my next VQ35
with much improved UOAs. Based on my results, I sure
would never use it in a VVEL for a longer than 3750 interval.
That's just my opinon, and I would encourage anyone
using it to study other UOAs before using it in their VQs
and do UOAs if they are using it.
better but was trying to avoid getting into what would seem like
a "stupid opiniated dislike of M1" I used M1 since it came out in
1976 (yes I'm old). Original blends had a high percentage of
ester basestock and it got a great and well deserved reputation.
Over the years they have reformulated multiple times, to
meet new API certifications/and or cut production cost.
Long-story-short, it doens't have much ester left in it....
to the point that I consider it just an "additive" to another
hydro-cracked synthetic oil.
It's still very good oil, I still use their VTwin in one of my
Harleys. I used M1 in my first VQ35 and got "so-so"
UOAs. Not bad, just higher wear metals and more
shearing than was acceptable to me in that engine, so
I switched to Rotella T-Syn in that engine and my next VQ35
with much improved UOAs. Based on my results, I sure
would never use it in a VVEL for a longer than 3750 interval.
That's just my opinon, and I would encourage anyone
using it to study other UOAs before using it in their VQs
and do UOAs if they are using it.
Well said.
I think what a lot of people don't realize is that you really don't need to spend $12/quart on Nissan "ester" or $15/quart on amsoil or redline or whatever. Those may be great oils and they may keep your engine in great shape for 500,000 miles but who really keeps a car for that long? Maybe .01% of the population or less. My point is always that you need to use what works and nothing more. I've had two engine last over 200,000 miles and both used the same Castrol GTX dino-oil, nothing more, nothing less. I spent probably $15 per oil change on those vehicles and never had a problem. These VQ engines may very well last 200,000 miles on the same dino oil...who knows? Who's willing to test it? What's funny is that I'm not even willing to test it even though I know that a lot of oils are over-rated and my own two cars lasted over 200,000 with pretty much bottom of the barrel oil.
My hopes are that Rotella-T6 or Pennzoil Ultra show good enough UOA's that I'll use them forever without any worries at all. Maybe my engine will last 200,000 miles but the way I've been going through cars recently it probably won't make 100,000 miles before I trade, sell, or upgrade!
Cheers!
03-09-2010, 12:16 PM
#69
Registered User
I too agree. There are so many variables that it's really hard to be sure as even the same oil in the same application will yield different results.
As you stated true esters are indeed considered the best at heat protection and dissipation and I that's likely why they're consistently used in those applications. As you stated the question is if the nissan "ester" is ester-enough to provide that same protection and if it does do you really need it. Maybe if you spent several weekends a year on a track but I'd be willing to bet that 99.99% of all G cars combined will never see a track day.
03-09-2010, 01:06 PM
#70
Unfortunately, the VQ37 cars I've seen on the track all suffer from overheating. It's been better lately, due to lower temperatures, but in the summer with 100+ ambient temps, I've seen them go into limp mode 2nd lap in. These are cars that are running oversized oil coolers.
Lately, the oil cooler cars have been able to run full sessions without issues, but ambient temps have been in the 50's. Oil-cooler-less 370's still overheat 5-6 laps in.
More importantly, what is the affect of hitting 280F+ temps on the oil they are running? I know that in the case of Amsoil and Motul, they actually become more viscous.
Lately, the oil cooler cars have been able to run full sessions without issues, but ambient temps have been in the 50's. Oil-cooler-less 370's still overheat 5-6 laps in.
More importantly, what is the affect of hitting 280F+ temps on the oil they are running? I know that in the case of Amsoil and Motul, they actually become more viscous.
03-10-2010, 10:56 AM
#71
Registered User
top end of these engines has to be shearing the
hell out of many syn' and semi-syn oils Many of us could
be using the Nissan Ester for the extra protection the
ester/nano-particle additives provide the VVEL components,
while the semi-synthetic base stock is heat shearing and
the bearings are wearing out. Best advice is change the
oil in your VQ37 sooner rather than later, no matter what you use.
Maybe this seems crazy to some guys, but I'm concerned for the folks
who are just assuming they can run extended OCI's in these cars like
they have in other cars they've owned.
03-10-2010, 04:54 PM
#72
Registered User
Mike, You hit the nail right on the head! the heat in the
top end of these engines has to be shearing the
hell out of many syn' and semi-syn oils Many of us could
be using the Nissan Ester for the extra protection the
ester/nano-particle additives provide the VVEL components,
while the semi-synthetic base stock is heat shearing and
the bearings are wearing out. Best advice is change the
oil in your VQ37 sooner rather than later, no matter what you use.
Maybe this seems crazy to some guys, but I'm concerned for the folks
who are just assuming they can run extended OCI's in these cars like
they have in other cars they've owned.
top end of these engines has to be shearing the
hell out of many syn' and semi-syn oils Many of us could
be using the Nissan Ester for the extra protection the
ester/nano-particle additives provide the VVEL components,
while the semi-synthetic base stock is heat shearing and
the bearings are wearing out. Best advice is change the
oil in your VQ37 sooner rather than later, no matter what you use.
Maybe this seems crazy to some guys, but I'm concerned for the folks
who are just assuming they can run extended OCI's in these cars like
they have in other cars they've owned.
03-10-2010, 06:37 PM
#74
Registered User
Ecu
I have a late cycle 2008 G37. Does this car need to have the ECU reflashed?
I have 8000 miles and it's had one oil change so far at the dealer (Beshoff in San Jose). 1st change was the standard oil at Beshoff, supposedly a Castrol Blend. I am thinking about switching to Redline 5/30 soon, which I can buy for 8 bucks a quart. My question is, can you run 10k mile change intervals using Redline in the VVEL motor? I have used Redline in my '96 240sx to very good results, 10k+ mile change intervals, it now has over 220k miles and strong as ever. (of course that's a low tech KA motor!) Is the assumption that Redline is superior to the Nissan Ester since it's a full ester??
Thanks everyone for the help! Oh, and JonfromCB, I like your short carriage returns!!!
I have 8000 miles and it's had one oil change so far at the dealer (Beshoff in San Jose). 1st change was the standard oil at Beshoff, supposedly a Castrol Blend. I am thinking about switching to Redline 5/30 soon, which I can buy for 8 bucks a quart. My question is, can you run 10k mile change intervals using Redline in the VVEL motor? I have used Redline in my '96 240sx to very good results, 10k+ mile change intervals, it now has over 220k miles and strong as ever. (of course that's a low tech KA motor!) Is the assumption that Redline is superior to the Nissan Ester since it's a full ester??
Thanks everyone for the help! Oh, and JonfromCB, I like your short carriage returns!!!
03-17-2010, 08:40 PM
#75
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I just got my 1st oil change, and opted for regular oil at the dealer. The car doesnt seem to run as well now...is it just my imagination, or do these cars really need this ester oil to run well?