MY 1st Oil Change with Ester OIL
11-11-2009, 10:39 AM
#31
Typically, I stay out of these, as everyone is set in their opinions and nobody will change theirs.
I can say, however, that this is wrong. The Ester oil (and Group V synthetics) are a PROVEN fix for the VVEL tic. The Ester oil is the recommend fix per the TSB. Required? Absolutely not. Merely recommended as the fix.
Interpret as you will. A few so-cal members can confirm that it DOES indeed work as advertised [in the TSB].
As for oil, I've never seen an engine go because someone used the wrong oil when the oil is regularly changed at recommended intervals.
For those that drive hard, there IS a valid reason to use synthetics beyond the scope of this thread, and different synthetics work better with different engines, also beyond the scope of this thread.
Carry on
I can say, however, that this is wrong. The Ester oil (and Group V synthetics) are a PROVEN fix for the VVEL tic. The Ester oil is the recommend fix per the TSB. Required? Absolutely not. Merely recommended as the fix.
Interpret as you will. A few so-cal members can confirm that it DOES indeed work as advertised [in the TSB].
As for oil, I've never seen an engine go because someone used the wrong oil when the oil is regularly changed at recommended intervals.
For those that drive hard, there IS a valid reason to use synthetics beyond the scope of this thread, and different synthetics work better with different engines, also beyond the scope of this thread.
Carry on
) and not Nissan/Infiniti. If I bought a car that's manual said to use regular 87 octane gasoline and found the engine would knock and ping constantly unless I used 91+, who's fault is that? It's the seller's fault. The whole "Nissan ester oil" fix is something that has developed after we were sold our cars without being told that it is needed for normal performance. I think that is what leaves a sour taste in the mind of many consumers. Whether it was done intentionally to squeeze more maintenance dollars out of buyers is debatable, but from a consumer standpoint it certainly seems that way.
11-11-2009, 11:56 AM
#32
Registered User
Good info Mike. I don't dispute that Nissan ester oil may fix the VVEL noise issue. I'll take your word as I've never had it and you've got personal experience working with it. However if Nissan ester oil is required to fix an engine noise on a brand new car, and isn't required by the owner's manual, then I can't understand how the consumer is responsible for the considerable additional undisclosed maintenance costs ($50+ per oil change ) and not Nissan/Infiniti. If I bought a car that's manual said to use regular 87 octane gasoline and found the engine would knock and ping constantly unless I used 91+, who's fault is that? It's the seller's fault. The whole "Nissan ester oil" fix is something that has developed after we were sold our cars without being told that it is needed for normal performance. I think that is what leaves a sour taste in the mind of many consumers. Whether it was done intentionally to squeeze more maintenance dollars out of buyers is debatable, but from a consumer standpoint it certainly seems that way.
) and not Nissan/Infiniti. If I bought a car that's manual said to use regular 87 octane gasoline and found the engine would knock and ping constantly unless I used 91+, who's fault is that? It's the seller's fault. The whole "Nissan ester oil" fix is something that has developed after we were sold our cars without being told that it is needed for normal performance. I think that is what leaves a sour taste in the mind of many consumers. Whether it was done intentionally to squeeze more maintenance dollars out of buyers is debatable, but from a consumer standpoint it certainly seems that way.complaining to Nissan about all along. The bigger picture is
in the not-to-distant future....after warranties expire will many of these
engines be severely worn but still running after 50K like many of the engines made in the
late 60s? Only time will tell.
You made good points in your earlier post about
Class action law suits, and said that my statements were not true.
That's your opinion, but reality is, in almost every past class action lawsuit against
auto manufacturers (google the summaries and check for yourself) manufacturers
agreed to settle, then delayed settlement in courts for YEARS until there
were almost no original owners still posessing the cars to settle with and
then only paid pennies on the dollar value of the damages.
I know firsthand, it happened to me!!! Audi, Volkswagen, Sabb,
Chrystler and even Toyota have had huge lawsuits over
flawed engine lubrication issues and the only loosers end
up being the owners and dealers who loose the business.
There are a couple of guys here who just want to argue.
No one is trying to sell them oil, or convince
them to use or not use any certain brand of oil. I even
agree with some of their comments. The real issue is
we all should be madd as hell at how Nissan is avoiding
being frank with its customers.
Some of the great minds here just want to argue that API "SM" rated
is all the engine needs for warranty purposes.....hey Brad, Seer,
Risky Guy and like thinkers....WE ALL KNOW THAT, AND THAT"S NOT THE
ISSUE. Those of us who bother to read the posts also know that
you guys think it's a Nissan marketing scam to sell expensive oil
.....WE HEARD YOU, and you're entitled to your opinions, but please
keep your foul language and insults to yourselves. If you are racing
your cars, your warranties are technically void anyway.
You might want to review the posts from the originator of this thread,
Mikes last two posts and the post from Brian last evening . It's your choice.
You can use minimal spec' oil, or you can use something better.
The VQ37VHR creates great heat in the valve train. It's causing
overheating, noise, parts failure and even enginge failures.
People who understand the issues also know that some (not all)
oils within the warranty specs, both conventionals and synthetics
are, or are going to cook right to those heat generating valve train
parts much sooner than many expect. Mobile one is
already replying to inquiries of VQ37 owners that they
do not recommend any of their oils for use in this
engine (see the "definitive oil thread on this board
for verification of Mobil 1's statments). So, why are many dealers
still recommending and using Mobil one? Some of you will deny that and
even tell me it's not true, or even call me a liar.
.....Not my problem, I'm only sharing the information.
Last edited by JonfromCB; 11-11-2009 at 01:21 PM.
11-11-2009, 12:47 PM
#33
Ultimately, if the VQ37VHR proves to be a failure, Infiniti will probably give some sort of "extended" coverage.
Historically, they've been pretty good about this. (Some examples would include 03/04 G35 brakes, which had the warranty coverage extended from 12k/12mo to 60k/4yr, including COMPLETE replacement with 05+ g35 brakes, QX56 buyback offers, and of course, the legendary oil consumption on the VQ35 rev-ups. In the last example, they gave everyone with the problem BRAND NEW engines. Yes, a complete, updated longblock.)
I would like to see that record continue
Please note: the Nissan ester oil is NOT the only fix for the VVEL tick. I do have some relatively solid theories, but they cannot be proven until this engine has had a lot more use and I collect more data.
Historically, they've been pretty good about this. (Some examples would include 03/04 G35 brakes, which had the warranty coverage extended from 12k/12mo to 60k/4yr, including COMPLETE replacement with 05+ g35 brakes, QX56 buyback offers, and of course, the legendary oil consumption on the VQ35 rev-ups. In the last example, they gave everyone with the problem BRAND NEW engines. Yes, a complete, updated longblock.)
I would like to see that record continue
Please note: the Nissan ester oil is NOT the only fix for the VVEL tick. I do have some relatively solid theories, but they cannot be proven until this engine has had a lot more use and I collect more data.
11-11-2009, 01:37 PM
#34
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A little OT, but I have a question. When using the Nissan ester oil, what kind of schedule do you have to follow? Can you go 7,500 miles like synthetic? I don't mind paying for the ester too much, but I would hope you'd get synthetic life out of it.
11-11-2009, 03:12 PM
#36
Soon I'll post how 5w30 Eneos synthetic performs in a fully broken in VQVHR (48K) using a 7500 mile OCI.
11-11-2009, 03:56 PM
#37
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I think Mike is counting the $10 for that extra test to see the amount of additive left in the oil. Not sure what they call it. I haven't done my first UOA yet so I'm pretty new at this.
11-11-2009, 04:12 PM
#38
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...I wanted to know why a car company suddenly developed an oil in a saturated market and if it was truely different from other oils and why they decided the VVEL needed a new "designer oil" months after they introduced the new engine. In short, none of it made any sense...
1) Infiniti introduces a new engine designed for increased HP with relatively better gas mileage figures by using VVEL technology;
2) After a few months of the new engine getting some real-life road use by owners, a design flaw becomes apparent (the VVEL noise) that cannot be completely cured by a mechanical fix like replacing an engine component with a redesigned part but can be fixed (hopefully) by using a special oil formulation along with an ECM reprogramming;
3) In order to provide owners with an acceptable "fix" and limit future product liability issues, they produce the Nissan ester oil and include a recommendation to use that oil in all owners manuals for VVEL engines 2009 and later.
Simple as that!
11-11-2009, 04:33 PM
#39
I'm not correcting you just to be be a jerk, but UOA is only $22 at Blackstone Labs, I know because I just sent in a sample last week. Postage it $2.07 for a full sample bottle.
Soon I'll post how 5w30 Eneos synthetic performs in a fully broken in VQVHR (48K) using a 7500 mile OCI.
Soon I'll post how 5w30 Eneos synthetic performs in a fully broken in VQVHR (48K) using a 7500 mile OCI.
The TBN is necessary to determine OCI. I should have clarified in my original post. Without the TBN, you'll get info on how the engine is wearing and if anything abnormal is present (or missing), but the TBN shows how much capacity the oil still has to protect your engine. If you call/email them, I'm sure they can add it
Lookin forward to your post Betty!
Last edited by Mike; 11-11-2009 at 04:41 PM.
11-11-2009, 04:53 PM
#40
Registered User
Have any of you ever thought of the following simple scenario? This is what I think REALLY HAPPENED at Infiniti:
1) Infiniti introduces a new engine designed for increased HP with relatively better gas mileage figures by using VVEL technology;
2) After a few months of the new engine getting some real-life road use by owners, a design flaw becomes apparent (the VVEL noise) that cannot be completely cured by a mechanical fix like replacing an engine component with a redesigned part but can be fixed (hopefully) by using a special oil formulation along with an ECM reprogramming;
3) In order to provide owners with an acceptable "fix" and limit future product liability issues, they produce the Nissan ester oil and include a recommendation to use that oil in all owners manuals for VVEL engines 2009 and later.
Simple as that!
1) Infiniti introduces a new engine designed for increased HP with relatively better gas mileage figures by using VVEL technology;
2) After a few months of the new engine getting some real-life road use by owners, a design flaw becomes apparent (the VVEL noise) that cannot be completely cured by a mechanical fix like replacing an engine component with a redesigned part but can be fixed (hopefully) by using a special oil formulation along with an ECM reprogramming;
3) In order to provide owners with an acceptable "fix" and limit future product liability issues, they produce the Nissan ester oil and include a recommendation to use that oil in all owners manuals for VVEL engines 2009 and later.
Simple as that!
T-Bone, After hours of research, I couldn't agree more with you.
But the way Nissan has handled it has just caused problems
for consumers and dealerships.
Why didn't Nissan just put a spec" out to oil companies
for their prescribed additives and then tell everyone? Honda
and Toyota have done this on several occasions.
Why did Nissan develop a designer oil with Nano-technology, then
apply for a EUROPEAN patent, and when it was denied why didn't they just
liscense their formula to their product manufacturer or better yet
other oil manufacturers?
Why did Nissan specifically recommend their Ester Oil
which from all available information is not a ester based oil?
Why are are Nissan/Infiniti dealers still recommending
and using oils such as Mobile 1 that the oil companies themselves
are non-recommending for use in these engines?
If what you say, and many of us agree with is true, why
didn't Nissan just come out and tell owners that they would
provide their oil during the warranty period????
Since every owner I have spoke with on the internet
who is using majority based ester, like Redline and Motul, etc
has elimiitated the issues in their cars using those oils, why
doesn't Nissan just say that those oils are suitable recommended
substitutes?
My opinion is that Nissan has really messed-up the whole issue
and owes an explaination and long term solution to it's customers
rather than just putting their oil in the cars once issues arrise
and thereby "hooking" the customer to return to them for their
oil changes....GEEZE LOUISE, $125 oil changes for conventional
oil with less than 2% added proprietory additives when you
can get Redline for just over $8/quart?
Here's what really pisses me off....Who is going to want to
buy my used POS G for anywhere near what it should be
worth knowing the POS is out of warranty and if they want
it to last and be reliable, they need to use $12.50/quart oil????
The correct answer to that is NO ONE
Here's what I'm thinking:
I have spend too much time farting around with this and
think there will be a new BMW or Audi in my future rather
than a 2010 M.
.
Last edited by JonfromCB; 11-11-2009 at 05:06 PM.
11-11-2009, 09:09 PM
#42
I'm not sure I've ever heard the valve tick noise in my '09. Is it really as noticeable and irritating like the high-pitched ECU whine that Infiniti can't seem to resolve? If so, my deepest sympathies. I'm using synthetic and have never used their ester oil.
11-12-2009, 12:11 AM
#43
11-12-2009, 08:36 PM
#45
Registered User
couple of reasons.
- I do alot of technical writing, and shorter
columns of words can be read faster by most
readers.
- This format keeps Brad from loosing his
place more than twice per line
- It makes me laugh everytime Brad complains
and insults me because he thinks my posts are
long. (he hasn't figured out that they just look
longer due to the format I use)
Hey Brad....If your attention span has lasted
to this point...Happy belated Veterans Day
and thanks for your service and sacrifices
for our Nation and it's great people. I know
what it's like, it's not always fun or rewarding
but someone has to do it, so carry-on and
always take care of the young guys. Godspeed.