MY 1st Oil Change with Ester OIL
11-10-2009, 02:29 PM
#16
Good response, thanks. I also use Nissan Ester, but only because
Nissan gave me a three year service contract after giving them
some extensive feedback on their "recommended use" of their
oil. If I still own the car after three years, I will be switching
to Redline.
There is plenty of convincing documentation as to why "ester" is
recommended in the VVEL. The VVEL has some incredibly tight
tolerences and generates heat very quickly. The nano-technology
in the Nissan Ester oil really does a great job of reducing friction
and the resulting heat in the VVEL system, but I have doubts
about the ester content and base oils used in it due to it's
proprietory formula being unknown except for what is available
in Nissan's "white papers". Ester bases are far superior to other
base groups...it's polarity causes it to flow towards heat instead
of away from it like other base groups. It's polority give it a
lingering and sticking property that provides superior pressure
build-up as compared to other base groups. Ester will
naturally flow into much tighter spaces than other base
groups. Since ester molecules "seek" contact with the metal,
it provides superior protection from varnish and sludge formation
that over time, other base groups will just flow over.
The VVEL throttle is driven by a motor-actuator mechanism
that regulates the intake valves......as compared to the previous
variable valve systems that responds to a "butterfly" valve
first. The speed of oil pressure building in the drive spool
has direct effect on "throttle response" in the VVEL....it's
an entirely new mechanical concept. Simply put, ester builds
pressure faster, allowing faster valve reaction in the VVel.
What I don't understand is why people with no understanding
of Tribology other than "this is what I use" or "my brother
the mechanic says" feel they need to chastise and make
ignorant negative comments to people who chose to use
Ester oil. I can tell you this...more and more VVEL owners
are switching to esters according to what I'm reading
on the various Nissan and oil forms after they've had
"limp mode" and premature actuator failure and noise
due to VVEL heat issues......Marketing pressure or
educated decisions???? Hey it's your engine, use
what you want or can afford, but do some homework
on why Nissan developed and recommends their oil
for the VVEL rather than telling people it's only
about marketing.
Nissan gave me a three year service contract after giving them
some extensive feedback on their "recommended use" of their
oil. If I still own the car after three years, I will be switching
to Redline.
There is plenty of convincing documentation as to why "ester" is
recommended in the VVEL. The VVEL has some incredibly tight
tolerences and generates heat very quickly. The nano-technology
in the Nissan Ester oil really does a great job of reducing friction
and the resulting heat in the VVEL system, but I have doubts
about the ester content and base oils used in it due to it's
proprietory formula being unknown except for what is available
in Nissan's "white papers". Ester bases are far superior to other
base groups...it's polarity causes it to flow towards heat instead
of away from it like other base groups. It's polority give it a
lingering and sticking property that provides superior pressure
build-up as compared to other base groups. Ester will
naturally flow into much tighter spaces than other base
groups. Since ester molecules "seek" contact with the metal,
it provides superior protection from varnish and sludge formation
that over time, other base groups will just flow over.
The VVEL throttle is driven by a motor-actuator mechanism
that regulates the intake valves......as compared to the previous
variable valve systems that responds to a "butterfly" valve
first. The speed of oil pressure building in the drive spool
has direct effect on "throttle response" in the VVEL....it's
an entirely new mechanical concept. Simply put, ester builds
pressure faster, allowing faster valve reaction in the VVel.
What I don't understand is why people with no understanding
of Tribology other than "this is what I use" or "my brother
the mechanic says" feel they need to chastise and make
ignorant negative comments to people who chose to use
Ester oil. I can tell you this...more and more VVEL owners
are switching to esters according to what I'm reading
on the various Nissan and oil forms after they've had
"limp mode" and premature actuator failure and noise
due to VVEL heat issues......Marketing pressure or
educated decisions???? Hey it's your engine, use
what you want or can afford, but do some homework
on why Nissan developed and recommends their oil
for the VVEL rather than telling people it's only
about marketing.
11-10-2009, 03:41 PM
#18
Now I'm not questioning the "advantages" of a Group V Ester Oil. I am stating that it is purely not required or even needed to prolong engine life or get good gas mileage.
Stating the above, is a marketing ploy. Yes it is a good oil, but the average driver will see absolutely zero benefit going with it. Remember our Nissan VVEL Engine is no revolution in the internal combustion engine. It's nothing special, it's not new technology, and it certainly is no different than the countless variable valve based engines out there.
Stating the above, is a marketing ploy. Yes it is a good oil, but the average driver will see absolutely zero benefit going with it. Remember our Nissan VVEL Engine is no revolution in the internal combustion engine. It's nothing special, it's not new technology, and it certainly is no different than the countless variable valve based engines out there.
11-10-2009, 04:30 PM
#19
Guys,
We already have a "my oil can beat up your oil" thread. feel free to take this discussion there.
https://www.myg37.com/forums/general...il-thread.html
We already have a "my oil can beat up your oil" thread. feel free to take this discussion there.
https://www.myg37.com/forums/general...il-thread.html
11-10-2009, 07:27 PM
#20
Guys,
We already have a "my oil can beat up your oil" thread. feel free to take this discussion there.
https://www.myg37.com/forums/general...il-thread.html
We already have a "my oil can beat up your oil" thread. feel free to take this discussion there.
https://www.myg37.com/forums/general...il-thread.html
Last edited by Seer; 11-10-2009 at 07:37 PM.
11-10-2009, 10:25 PM
#21
Registered User
Seer, congratulations! Three back-to-back posts contributing
nothing except a discernable display of your own negativity
and ignorance.
If you think Nissan started making their own oil, which will
only be distributed to Nissan dealers and used in their
cars in order to make money when there are literally hundreds
of manufacturers and brands of oil that have tens of thousands
of distributors, for use in every other make and model
of vehicle and engine....then you know less about marketing than you
do oil and the VVEL!!!
As to why Service Managers recommend other oils....First
they are neither mechanics nor engineers. They are customer
service clerks with commensurate training and pay. Four
of the five I personally spoke with were not even aware
that Nissan recommends their ester oil for use in the
VVEL and why, and had not read the Nissan "white papers"
on the technical differences between the VVEL and prior
Nissan variable valve systems....and SECOND....they
make more money selling bulk Mobil 1 10-30 they buy
for $1.50 or a little more per quart and charge $6 or $7/quart
than they do their own brand of bottled oil.
Like I said earlier, use what you want or can afford
and what do you care if anyone else wants to use
Redline, Schaeffers, Motul, Eaon, Amsoil or Renewable
Resources in their cars?
nothing except a discernable display of your own negativity
and ignorance.
If you think Nissan started making their own oil, which will
only be distributed to Nissan dealers and used in their
cars in order to make money when there are literally hundreds
of manufacturers and brands of oil that have tens of thousands
of distributors, for use in every other make and model
of vehicle and engine....then you know less about marketing than you
do oil and the VVEL!!!
As to why Service Managers recommend other oils....First
they are neither mechanics nor engineers. They are customer
service clerks with commensurate training and pay. Four
of the five I personally spoke with were not even aware
that Nissan recommends their ester oil for use in the
VVEL and why, and had not read the Nissan "white papers"
on the technical differences between the VVEL and prior
Nissan variable valve systems....and SECOND....they
make more money selling bulk Mobil 1 10-30 they buy
for $1.50 or a little more per quart and charge $6 or $7/quart
than they do their own brand of bottled oil.
Like I said earlier, use what you want or can afford
and what do you care if anyone else wants to use
Redline, Schaeffers, Motul, Eaon, Amsoil or Renewable
Resources in their cars?
Last edited by JonfromCB; 11-10-2009 at 10:31 PM.
11-10-2009, 11:21 PM
#22
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JonfromCB- I rarely comment on oil threads, it's usually pointless. But you have made some of the best comments I have read in a long time related to Ester. 
You are absolutely right that most dealers will sell the oil they buy in bulk because they get it a serious discount, Mobil 1 included. It's simply more profitable. However, they should be recommending Nissan ester oil. We sell Castrol Syntec which is an excellent synthetic except G37 & FX50 because the recommended oil for these engines is Nissan ester. When I called our competition to see what they recommended, they made no mention of ester
You are absolutely right that most dealers will sell the oil they buy in bulk because they get it a serious discount, Mobil 1 included. It's simply more profitable. However, they should be recommending Nissan ester oil. We sell Castrol Syntec which is an excellent synthetic except G37 & FX50 because the recommended oil for these engines is Nissan ester. When I called our competition to see what they recommended, they made no mention of ester
11-11-2009, 12:03 AM
#24
Registered User
JonfromCB- I rarely comment on oil threads, it's usually pointless. But you have made some of the best comments I have read in a long time related to Ester.
You are absolutely right that most dealers will sell the oil they buy in bulk because they get it a serious discount, Mobil 1 included. It's simply more profitable. However, they should be recommending Nissan ester oil. We sell Castrol Syntec which is an excellent synthetic except G37 & FX50 because the recommended oil for these engines is Nissan ester. When I called our competition to see what they recommended, they made no mention of ester
You are absolutely right that most dealers will sell the oil they buy in bulk because they get it a serious discount, Mobil 1 included. It's simply more profitable. However, they should be recommending Nissan ester oil. We sell Castrol Syntec which is an excellent synthetic except G37 & FX50 because the recommended oil for these engines is Nissan ester. When I called our competition to see what they recommended, they made no mention of ester
a G37. I was totally blown away when I bought my new G and
found out Nissan recommended their Ester oil. I work for myself doing
company and product research for private investors...so this was
right up my alley. I started reading and fact finding because I wanted to
know why a car company suddenly developed an oil in a saturated market
and if it was truely different from other oils and why they decided
the VVEL needed a new "designer oil" months after they introduced
the new engine. In short, none of it made any sense and Nissan was
not doing a good job of explaining it to the public, dealerships, or car owners.
I have provided lengthly feedback to Infiniti that they need to explain
their "recommendation" to owners so they can make an educated
decision on oil use rather than paying such a high price for their
"designer oil." Unfortunately, I don't expect Nissan to "spec" other
oils for their engines since they've developed their own, nor do I
expect them to be able to drop the price on their low volume
sole source/distribution Ester oil. I'm not one to encite fear and
I don't sell oil, but I'm honestly hoping that we don't see lots
of engine failures several years from now after warranties
expire.....that will only hurt dealers and owners. Nissan will
be covered because they recommeded ester and provided a warranty
......it wouldn't be the first time for such a fiasco. But it will make
the cars of those who used ester worth a whole lot more.
11-11-2009, 12:31 AM
#25
) they will most certainly NOT be covered. They can recommend it after the fact all they want, but it would be a miracle if a large scale engine failure, even on cars out of powertrain warranty, did not cause a class action law suit that NNA would most certainly lose. If Nissan branded ester oil is a necessity for these engines to function properly, then Nissan will be found negligent for not informing consumers of this fact prior to purchase. They would also be very likely to be forced to pay compensatory damages and/or buy back every single VQVHR engine equipped car that failed for not disclosing this to consumers and allowing them to make an informed choice.Ester oil is a choice. If buyers have VVEL related noise and choose to allow NNA to extort them for $12/quart oil to "fix" a brand new car, that's their business. If my car develops a noise from not using it and they cannot fix it, their only choices in my case will be to supply me with a lifetime supply of it at their expense or buy my car back for my full purchase amount. This I can assure you of. changing the rules after the game has started is shameful and illegal and I will not let them get away with it. Fortunately, I am noise free after 48K miles. Fortunately for Infiniti, not for me.
11-11-2009, 12:51 AM
#26
Seer, congratulations! Three back-to-back posts contributing
nothing except a discernable display of your own negativity
and ignorance.
If you think Nissan started making their own oil, which will
only be distributed to Nissan dealers and used in their
cars in order to make money when there are literally hundreds
of manufacturers and brands of oil that have tens of thousands
of distributors, for use in every other make and model
of vehicle and engine....then you know less about marketing than you
do oil and the VVEL!!!
As to why Service Managers recommend other oils....First
they are neither mechanics nor engineers. They are customer
service clerks with commensurate training and pay. Four
of the five I personally spoke with were not even aware
that Nissan recommends their ester oil for use in the
VVEL and why, and had not read the Nissan "white papers"
on the technical differences between the VVEL and prior
Nissan variable valve systems....and SECOND....they
make more money selling bulk Mobil 1 10-30 they buy
for $1.50 or a little more per quart and charge $6 or $7/quart
than they do their own brand of bottled oil.
Like I said earlier, use what you want or can afford
and what do you care if anyone else wants to use
Redline, Schaeffers, Motul, Eaon, Amsoil or Renewable
Resources in their cars?
nothing except a discernable display of your own negativity
and ignorance.
If you think Nissan started making their own oil, which will
only be distributed to Nissan dealers and used in their
cars in order to make money when there are literally hundreds
of manufacturers and brands of oil that have tens of thousands
of distributors, for use in every other make and model
of vehicle and engine....then you know less about marketing than you
do oil and the VVEL!!!
As to why Service Managers recommend other oils....First
they are neither mechanics nor engineers. They are customer
service clerks with commensurate training and pay. Four
of the five I personally spoke with were not even aware
that Nissan recommends their ester oil for use in the
VVEL and why, and had not read the Nissan "white papers"
on the technical differences between the VVEL and prior
Nissan variable valve systems....and SECOND....they
make more money selling bulk Mobil 1 10-30 they buy
for $1.50 or a little more per quart and charge $6 or $7/quart
than they do their own brand of bottled oil.
Like I said earlier, use what you want or can afford
and what do you care if anyone else wants to use
Redline, Schaeffers, Motul, Eaon, Amsoil or Renewable
Resources in their cars?
If you want to spend $12 a quart and if it makes you sleep better at night be my guest, but then I also have a bridge for sale too you maybe interested in.
And the last portion of your statement as why do I care? I could give a flipping **** what you put in your car, but this is a car forum where people come to share ideas, and to discuss various topics, maybe you should've thought about that before spouting off with that comment.
11-11-2009, 02:00 AM
#28
Oh MY F'ING GOD!!!! Here we go again, and surprise surprise with who's swinging on Nissan's Ester nuts.......Is this one going to drag out to 13+ pages of oil OPINIONS too?
That's good **** BB, beer to you sir
John that statement is simply not true. Not even close. Nissan can recommend anything they want to turn a larger profit or to properly protect their engines as you suggest, but if VQVHR engines fail simply from using regular 5w30 oil as required by the owner's manual in all our glove boxes (the word "ester" is nowhere to be found in the manual because it is NOT a requirement ) they will most certainly NOT be covered. They can recommend it after the fact all they want, but it would be a miracle if a large scale engine failure, even on cars out of powertrain warranty, did not cause a class action law suit that NNA would most certainly lose. If Nissan branded ester oil is a necessity for these engines to function properly, then Nissan will be found negligent for not informing consumers of this fact prior to purchase. They would also be very likely to be forced to pay compensatory damages and/or buy back every single VQVHR engine equipped car that failed for not disclosing this to consumers and allowing them to make an informed choice.
Ester oil is a choice. If buyers have VVEL related noise and choose to allow NNA to extort them for $12/quart oil to "fix" a brand new car, that's their business. If my car develops a noise from not using it and they cannot fix it, their only choices in my case will be to supply me with a lifetime supply of it at their expense or buy my car back for my full purchase amount. This I can assure you of. changing the rules after the game has started is shameful and illegal and I will not let them get away with it. Fortunately, I am noise free after 48K miles. Fortunately for Infiniti, not for me.
Ester oil is a choice. If buyers have VVEL related noise and choose to allow NNA to extort them for $12/quart oil to "fix" a brand new car, that's their business. If my car develops a noise from not using it and they cannot fix it, their only choices in my case will be to supply me with a lifetime supply of it at their expense or buy my car back for my full purchase amount. This I can assure you of. changing the rules after the game has started is shameful and illegal and I will not let them get away with it. Fortunately, I am noise free after 48K miles. Fortunately for Infiniti, not for me.
Last edited by BradManUWF; 11-11-2009 at 02:18 AM.
11-11-2009, 04:39 AM
#29
Three posts of negativity? No more like three posts showing the truth. These cars do not require ester oil. I've forgotten more about engine building then you probably ever learned about cars. The Nissan VVEL Engine is nothing special, it does not have any "magical tolerances" that require a special oil formulated only by Nissan. It provides absolutely zero advantage. Automobile companies do not create anything unless there is a bottom line profit attached to it. And as Betty stated, Nissan provides ZERO documentation anywhere that this Ester oil is even recommended, or will prolong engine life etc etc. Hey if you want to sip the ester oil kool aid, suit yourself. But I've built quite a few 800hp+ engines with some of the tightest specifications, and none of them have required any kind've magical oil. There is absolutely no need for it, it is a complete placebo effect.
If you want to spend $12 a quart and if it makes you sleep better at night be my guest, but then I also have a bridge for sale too you maybe interested in.
And the last portion of your statement as why do I care? I could give a flipping **** what you put in your car, but this is a car forum where people come to share ideas, and to discuss various topics, maybe you should've thought about that before spouting off with that comment.
If you want to spend $12 a quart and if it makes you sleep better at night be my guest, but then I also have a bridge for sale too you maybe interested in.
And the last portion of your statement as why do I care? I could give a flipping **** what you put in your car, but this is a car forum where people come to share ideas, and to discuss various topics, maybe you should've thought about that before spouting off with that comment.
I can say, however, that this is wrong. The Ester oil (and Group V synthetics) are a PROVEN fix for the VVEL tic. The Ester oil is the recommend fix per the TSB. Required? Absolutely not. Merely recommended as the fix.
Interpret as you will. A few so-cal members can confirm that it DOES indeed work as advertised [in the TSB].
As for oil, I've never seen an engine go because someone used the wrong oil when the oil is regularly changed at recommended intervals.
For those that drive hard, there IS a valid reason to use synthetics beyond the scope of this thread, and different synthetics work better with different engines, also beyond the scope of this thread.
Carry on
11-11-2009, 10:33 AM
#30
Registered User
John that statement is simply not true. Not even close. Nissan can recommend anything they want to turn a larger profit or to properly protect their engines as you suggest, but if VQVHR engines fail simply from using regular 5w30 oil as required by the owner's manual in all our glove boxes (the word "ester" is nowhere to be found in the manual because it is NOT a requirement ) they will most certainly NOT be covered. They can recommend it after the fact all they want, but it would be a miracle if a large scale engine failure, even on cars out of powertrain warranty, did not cause a class action law suit that NNA would most certainly lose. If Nissan branded ester oil is a necessity for these engines to function properly, then Nissan will be found negligent for not informing consumers of this fact prior to purchase. They would also be very likely to be forced to pay compensatory damages and/or buy back every single VQVHR engine equipped car that failed for not disclosing this to consumers and allowing them to make an informed choice.
Ester oil is a choice. If buyers have VVEL related noise and choose to allow NNA to extort them for $12/quart oil to "fix" a brand new car, that's their business. If my car develops a noise from not using it and they cannot fix it, their only choices in my case will be to supply me with a lifetime supply of it at their expense or buy my car back for my full purchase amount. This I can assure you of. changing the rules after the game has started is shameful and illegal and I will not let them get away with it. Fortunately, I am noise free after 48K miles. Fortunately for Infiniti, not for me.
) they will most certainly NOT be covered. They can recommend it after the fact all they want, but it would be a miracle if a large scale engine failure, even on cars out of powertrain warranty, did not cause a class action law suit that NNA would most certainly lose. If Nissan branded ester oil is a necessity for these engines to function properly, then Nissan will be found negligent for not informing consumers of this fact prior to purchase. They would also be very likely to be forced to pay compensatory damages and/or buy back every single VQVHR engine equipped car that failed for not disclosing this to consumers and allowing them to make an informed choice.Ester oil is a choice. If buyers have VVEL related noise and choose to allow NNA to extort them for $12/quart oil to "fix" a brand new car, that's their business. If my car develops a noise from not using it and they cannot fix it, their only choices in my case will be to supply me with a lifetime supply of it at their expense or buy my car back for my full purchase amount. This I can assure you of. changing the rules after the game has started is shameful and illegal and I will not let them get away with it. Fortunately, I am noise free after 48K miles. Fortunately for Infiniti, not for me.
Typically, I stay out of these, as everyone is set in their opinions and nobody will change theirs.
I can say, however, that this is wrong. The Ester oil (and Group V synthetics) are a PROVEN fix for the VVEL tic. The Ester oil is the recommend fix per the TSB. Required? Absolutely not. Merely recommended as the fix.
Interpret as you will. A few so-cal members can confirm that it DOES indeed work as advertised [in the TSB].
I can say, however, that this is wrong. The Ester oil (and Group V synthetics) are a PROVEN fix for the VVEL tic. The Ester oil is the recommend fix per the TSB. Required? Absolutely not. Merely recommended as the fix.
Interpret as you will. A few so-cal members can confirm that it DOES indeed work as advertised [in the TSB].