MoTec ECU
07-22-2009, 04:51 PM
#17
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I am pretty sure the VVEL is controlled by a separate ECU. Adding a Motec or any other piggyback or stand-alone will do nothing to the VVEL. I have a feeling you will see a VVEL controller popping up in the near future. Now the CVTC system is controlled by the ECU (just like older VQ's-- this controls cam phasing). Lift, duration, overlap, etc. are all part of the VVEL system, and will require a controller for the VVEL system or some type of mechanical adjustments to change.
You would have to scrap the entire head, and make some serious electrical and sensor changes to get rid of the VVEL. The head on the VQ37VHR is completely un-serviceable per Nissan. If something goes wrong, the entire head will be replaced. It is nearly impossible to replace the intake cams due to mechanical complexities, and the exhaust cams would take some major work unlike any set of cams currently available. In theory you could use the head off another HR series VQ engine, but there are some obvious drawbacks and issues in doing so.
On our VVEL system, duration and lift adjustments can be made with adjustment screws on the head (intake side only, the exhaust side will require new cams to change duration and lift). These adjustments are pretty complex and will require fixtures and jigs to do so. All other variables are controlled by the VVEL ECU (controller). The most important part of this is valve movement (this also greatly affects throttle response). Cam phasing is part of the CVTC system, which in theory can be controller by the ECU.
If you really care about this stuff, I would highly recommend reading the following article: http://www.370z.com/MagazineArticles...akthrough.aspx
There is a lot of mis-information out there about the VVEL system, and the above article should clear it up....
You would have to scrap the entire head, and make some serious electrical and sensor changes to get rid of the VVEL. The head on the VQ37VHR is completely un-serviceable per Nissan. If something goes wrong, the entire head will be replaced. It is nearly impossible to replace the intake cams due to mechanical complexities, and the exhaust cams would take some major work unlike any set of cams currently available. In theory you could use the head off another HR series VQ engine, but there are some obvious drawbacks and issues in doing so.
On our VVEL system, duration and lift adjustments can be made with adjustment screws on the head (intake side only, the exhaust side will require new cams to change duration and lift). These adjustments are pretty complex and will require fixtures and jigs to do so. All other variables are controlled by the VVEL ECU (controller). The most important part of this is valve movement (this also greatly affects throttle response). Cam phasing is part of the CVTC system, which in theory can be controller by the ECU.
If you really care about this stuff, I would highly recommend reading the following article: http://www.370z.com/MagazineArticles...akthrough.aspx
There is a lot of mis-information out there about the VVEL system, and the above article should clear it up....
07-22-2009, 04:57 PM
#18
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If you add the vvel to he cqual it would reduce the input but processing the code in japanese will only help if add the negative stand alone system bc Cobb sucks
07-22-2009, 05:10 PM
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I'll paypal you if you want haha
07-22-2009, 07:46 PM
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I think the upcoming crop of ECU reflashes will eventually have this control. Time will tell, but "tricking" the signal might throw the ECU into limp. I am thinking that native ECU control is going to be the best solution. If the VVEL see itself "out of range" it goes nuts.
07-22-2009, 11:39 PM
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I think the upcoming crop of ECU reflashes will eventually have this control. Time will tell, but "tricking" the signal might throw the ECU into limp. I am thinking that native ECU control is going to be the best solution. If the VVEL see itself "out of range" it goes nuts.
I just want to know if I will be able to add a piggyback without my car going into R and R(limp) mode all the time
07-23-2009, 03:30 PM
#23
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I am pretty sure the VVEL is controlled by a separate ECU. Adding a Motec or any other piggyback or stand-alone will do nothing to the VVEL. I have a feeling you will see a VVEL controller popping up in the near future. Now the CVTC system is controlled by the ECU (just like older VQ's-- this controls cam phasing). Lift, duration, overlap, etc. are all part of the VVEL system, and will require a controller for the VVEL system or some type of mechanical adjustments to change.
You would have to scrap the entire head, and make some serious electrical and sensor changes to get rid of the VVEL. The head on the VQ37VHR is completely un-serviceable per Nissan. If something goes wrong, the entire head will be replaced. It is nearly impossible to replace the intake cams due to mechanical complexities, and the exhaust cams would take some major work unlike any set of cams currently available. In theory you could use the head off another HR series VQ engine, but there are some obvious drawbacks and issues in doing so.
On our VVEL system, duration and lift adjustments can be made with adjustment screws on the head (intake side only, the exhaust side will require new cams to change duration and lift). These adjustments are pretty complex and will require fixtures and jigs to do so. All other variables are controlled by the VVEL ECU (controller). The most important part of this is valve movement (this also greatly affects throttle response). Cam phasing is part of the CVTC system, which in theory can be controller by the ECU.
If you really care about this stuff, I would highly recommend reading the following article: http://www.370z.com/MagazineArticles...akthrough.aspx
There is a lot of mis-information out there about the VVEL system, and the above article should clear it up....
You would have to scrap the entire head, and make some serious electrical and sensor changes to get rid of the VVEL. The head on the VQ37VHR is completely un-serviceable per Nissan. If something goes wrong, the entire head will be replaced. It is nearly impossible to replace the intake cams due to mechanical complexities, and the exhaust cams would take some major work unlike any set of cams currently available. In theory you could use the head off another HR series VQ engine, but there are some obvious drawbacks and issues in doing so.
On our VVEL system, duration and lift adjustments can be made with adjustment screws on the head (intake side only, the exhaust side will require new cams to change duration and lift). These adjustments are pretty complex and will require fixtures and jigs to do so. All other variables are controlled by the VVEL ECU (controller). The most important part of this is valve movement (this also greatly affects throttle response). Cam phasing is part of the CVTC system, which in theory can be controller by the ECU.
If you really care about this stuff, I would highly recommend reading the following article: http://www.370z.com/MagazineArticles...akthrough.aspx
There is a lot of mis-information out there about the VVEL system, and the above article should clear it up....
so you recommend to keep the OEM ECU? and just tune it if i want more power??...
07-23-2009, 06:22 PM
#24
For naturally aspirated cars, I think the factory ECU is the best bet. I think the general consensus is that most cars with a moderate amount of mods will most likely be tuned by some type of ECU reflash. Sharif confirmed this above, and we have discussed this in many other threads. The technology for this is finally at the point were it is easy to use and accessible to all. UpRev, TechnoSquare, and Cobb all offer some form of this now. We are even seeing ECU flashes on FI'd VQ cars; 5 years ago that was almost unheard of (if a FI'ed car had a flash, it usually ran some form of piggy-back or stand-alone for engine management).
The big unknown is VVEL control. As Sharif pointed out above, just modifying the VVEL will cause problems with the factory ECU. So, VVEL control will likely come from additional ECU tuning that is not available yet, or some sort of additional controller dedicated to the VVEL (or a flash if possible), or some combination of the two (very possibly both). There are also several mechanical adjustments that can be made to the intake side of the VVEL, but it will take some form of the above mentioned changes to allow the mechanical adjustments to actually work.
07-23-2009, 08:07 PM
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do do you mean that tricking the ecu signal for a/f ratio with a piggyback *should* be fine, but trying to mess with the vvel system signal could make it go haywire?
I just want to know if I will be able to add a piggyback without my car going into R and R(limp) mode all the time
I just want to know if I will be able to add a piggyback without my car going into R and R(limp) mode all the time
But tricking the VVEL is what may cause an issue. IE, if the ECU commands 20% duty cycle from VVEL, but sees 40%, it will throw an "out of range" type code and may go into limp. With native ECU control, we rewrite the command values, so everything will be in range, as we desire.
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