Companies Who Plan On Having A Supercharger For The G37
12-21-2009, 06:52 PM
#78
Administrator
Stillen look like they've put some more R&D into it. I am pretty certain though that GTM will put down higher numbers.. Stillen's using a water-air intercooler rather than the huge azz front mount air to air one so you can foresee low boost..
12-22-2009, 03:36 AM
#82
Administrator
12-30-2009, 06:03 PM
#83
First off, please do not take any of my posts as argumentative, I am simply trying to inform and educate. If you disagree with me on any topic I will do my best to answer as quickly as possible.
Not that it is important but I have actually been working at STILLEN for my entire life...My name is Kyle Millen, I am Steve Millen's son.
In terms of the performance of our previous supercharger for the 350Z and G35. You are 100% correct and 100% incorrect. That supercharger kit did everything we asked of it. It was never intended to be the most powerful forced induction solution on the market. We never once made that claim. We set out to produce a supercharger that offered great power across the entire power band, a supercharger kit that came pre-tuned ready to install with warranty and CARB legality. CARB legality and warranty were two of our biggest goals and we achieved both.
If someone wants to achieve a ton of power but they are willing to sacrifice warranty or legality, then there are most definitely other options and we encourage people to go the turbo route. But, for most people, who just want to give their car more power, maintain legality and maintain a warranty, our Stage 2 supercharger fit that bill perfectly.
Again, I do not want to be seen as argumentative though and this is where I will reinforce that you are 100% correct. The supercharger that we used could not push enough air for the people who wanted to push their cars harder or were prepared to build the motor to handle more boost. For those people who wanted more...Yes, turbo's were the best choice.
We actually began working on our supercharger using the red MOMO G37 sport a little over a year ago. Since then we have moved it to our silver and grey G37. For forced induction purposes it doesn't really matter if we use the G or the Z as just about everything will be the same. The only reason we haven't come out with the kit sooner is because the project had to be sidelined for a little while during the preparation of the GT R for the Targa Newfoundland rally. We had a deadline to finish the car before the race so we had to make some sacrifices on the timelines of other projects/products.
Generally I would say that this statement is correct however, the dual throttle body configuration of the VQ37 is complicating a lot of things. With that being said, I have no idea what our kit will cost when it is completed, I imagine it will be less expensive than the TT kits, but the dual throttle body design has required some creative thinking.
This statement could not be more true!!!
Before making any decisions on what form of forced induction you would like to choose you must first consider what your goals are for the car. Do you want to maintain legality? What are your horsepower expectations? Do you plan on upgrading sometime down the line? These are all things that need to be taken into consideration. I have talked with numerous customer's on both sides of the fence. Some people who bought our supercharger for the 350 and G35 and say, "man, I wish I went twin turbo and had a lot more power" and I've talked with twin turbo customer's who have said "you know, the TT is cool but, I've spent a ton of money and now my car's not even legal."
With all that being said...The Vortech supercharger that we are using on the VQ37 engine has a lot more potential than the supercharger that we used for the VQ35 engine. In my opinion, I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised.
I went ahead and double quoted these posts because they are right along the same lines of one another and I just want to clarify.
Intercoolers are the perfect example of "size doesn't matter." When you compare an air to water intercooler with an air to air intercooler you can not look at the intercooler out front of the car and think "Wow, that ones bigger so it must be better." There is a lot that goes into determining the correct size intercooler.
For starters, an air to water intercooler does not require a larger intercooler straight out front because you aren't running a large volume of air through it. An air to water intercooler system works just like the radiator/cooling system. The water/coolant starts in the radiator/heat exchanger out front, cycles through the hoses and into the intercooler which is actually inside the intake tract or inside the intake manifold. The air is blown through the radiator which heats up the water/coolant in the intercooler but cools down the air as it travels past. From there, the water travels back through a return hose to the heat exchanger/radiator at the front of the car, where it is cooled down and returned back to the intake tract.
An air to air intercooler is simpler than that.
The air gets blown through the turbo or supercharger where it is heated due to the compression and temperature of the FI unit then it flows through the intercooler. But, it does not go on the outside of the cooler, This is where you have to imagine that the air in an air to air system is like the water of the air to water system. So the air travels inside the intercooler as it gets cooled by the air on the outside...Then the air goes directly into the motor.
So as you can imagine, with an air to air intercooler system you must have a large intercooler so that you can get a large volume of air to pass through it efficiently and it has to be pretty big because it needs a larger surface area. However, you can go too large and too large of an intercooler can cause a pressure drop. With an air to water intercooler the air is not inside the intercooler system, it just passes through/over it. So just because you have a small heat exchanger mounted out front of the car, doesn't mean that you can't cool just as efficiently as a large front mounted air to air intercooler. If you start pushing too much air then yes, you will need to go to a larger heat exchanger out front in order to give the coolant sufficient time to cool before returning back to the intake/intercooler.
Take for example the Nissan GT R. The factory intercoolers, although quite small, are actually pretty efficient up until about 17 pounds of boost, then you are trying to stuff too much air into too small of system. So you have to go bigger at that point.
I hope that made sense, if I left anyone with more questions or if I confused anyone, please feel free to speak up.
EDIT:
I have a feeling I might have confused some people with my explanation so I'm going to make it as simple as I can imagine.
When you use an air to air intercooler, the air inside the intercooler goes into the engine...So in order to get enough air into the engine, you need a large intercooler so that it can handle a large volume of air.
When you use an air to water intercooler, the air follows a normal intake air path then gets blown over or through, but still outside, the intercooler.
Both methods have their positives and negatives, we prefer the air to water intercooler route for numerous reasons and other people prefer the air to air intercooler route for their reasons.
In terms of the performance of our previous supercharger for the 350Z and G35. You are 100% correct and 100% incorrect. That supercharger kit did everything we asked of it. It was never intended to be the most powerful forced induction solution on the market. We never once made that claim. We set out to produce a supercharger that offered great power across the entire power band, a supercharger kit that came pre-tuned ready to install with warranty and CARB legality. CARB legality and warranty were two of our biggest goals and we achieved both.
If someone wants to achieve a ton of power but they are willing to sacrifice warranty or legality, then there are most definitely other options and we encourage people to go the turbo route. But, for most people, who just want to give their car more power, maintain legality and maintain a warranty, our Stage 2 supercharger fit that bill perfectly.
Again, I do not want to be seen as argumentative though and this is where I will reinforce that you are 100% correct. The supercharger that we used could not push enough air for the people who wanted to push their cars harder or were prepared to build the motor to handle more boost. For those people who wanted more...Yes, turbo's were the best choice.
Most companies test fit and create parts for the 370z, then move over onto the G37, the $$$ is where the 370z is. GTM however R&D their kit on the g37 way before the g37 market starting booming. I remember right when the car came out, I mean before you could even buy it probably, Sam purchased a brand new g37 and start tearing it down. By the time people started buying alot of g37s he already had a g37 with stroker kit fully built tt'd. Created, R&D, Installed and Built, Tuned, right here in SoCal!
Before making any decisions on what form of forced induction you would like to choose you must first consider what your goals are for the car. Do you want to maintain legality? What are your horsepower expectations? Do you plan on upgrading sometime down the line? These are all things that need to be taken into consideration. I have talked with numerous customer's on both sides of the fence. Some people who bought our supercharger for the 350 and G35 and say, "man, I wish I went twin turbo and had a lot more power" and I've talked with twin turbo customer's who have said "you know, the TT is cool but, I've spent a ton of money and now my car's not even legal."
With all that being said...The Vortech supercharger that we are using on the VQ37 engine has a lot more potential than the supercharger that we used for the VQ35 engine. In my opinion, I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised.
Intercoolers are the perfect example of "size doesn't matter." When you compare an air to water intercooler with an air to air intercooler you can not look at the intercooler out front of the car and think "Wow, that ones bigger so it must be better." There is a lot that goes into determining the correct size intercooler.
For starters, an air to water intercooler does not require a larger intercooler straight out front because you aren't running a large volume of air through it. An air to water intercooler system works just like the radiator/cooling system. The water/coolant starts in the radiator/heat exchanger out front, cycles through the hoses and into the intercooler which is actually inside the intake tract or inside the intake manifold. The air is blown through the radiator which heats up the water/coolant in the intercooler but cools down the air as it travels past. From there, the water travels back through a return hose to the heat exchanger/radiator at the front of the car, where it is cooled down and returned back to the intake tract.
An air to air intercooler is simpler than that.
The air gets blown through the turbo or supercharger where it is heated due to the compression and temperature of the FI unit then it flows through the intercooler. But, it does not go on the outside of the cooler, This is where you have to imagine that the air in an air to air system is like the water of the air to water system. So the air travels inside the intercooler as it gets cooled by the air on the outside...Then the air goes directly into the motor.
So as you can imagine, with an air to air intercooler system you must have a large intercooler so that you can get a large volume of air to pass through it efficiently and it has to be pretty big because it needs a larger surface area. However, you can go too large and too large of an intercooler can cause a pressure drop. With an air to water intercooler the air is not inside the intercooler system, it just passes through/over it. So just because you have a small heat exchanger mounted out front of the car, doesn't mean that you can't cool just as efficiently as a large front mounted air to air intercooler. If you start pushing too much air then yes, you will need to go to a larger heat exchanger out front in order to give the coolant sufficient time to cool before returning back to the intake/intercooler.
Take for example the Nissan GT R. The factory intercoolers, although quite small, are actually pretty efficient up until about 17 pounds of boost, then you are trying to stuff too much air into too small of system. So you have to go bigger at that point.
I hope that made sense, if I left anyone with more questions or if I confused anyone, please feel free to speak up.
EDIT:
I have a feeling I might have confused some people with my explanation so I'm going to make it as simple as I can imagine.
When you use an air to air intercooler, the air inside the intercooler goes into the engine...So in order to get enough air into the engine, you need a large intercooler so that it can handle a large volume of air.
When you use an air to water intercooler, the air follows a normal intake air path then gets blown over or through, but still outside, the intercooler.
Both methods have their positives and negatives, we prefer the air to water intercooler route for numerous reasons and other people prefer the air to air intercooler route for their reasons.
Last edited by kyle@stillen; 12-30-2009 at 06:19 PM.
12-30-2009, 07:14 PM
#84
Administrator
Kyle, I really appreciate you chiming in.. I'd give you a rep point if we had that thing going on here too. You know what they say, pictures speak a 1000 words.
But we could to an extent generalize by saying, a front mount intercooler is intended for more "hardcore" use.. Or would that still be an invalid statement?
From what I know/read, water-air is more efficient (less pressure drop) when it comes to smaller cooling rates, whereas FMIC come in handy when you need a higher cooling rate. That isn't 100% accurate is it?
But we could to an extent generalize by saying, a front mount intercooler is intended for more "hardcore" use.. Or would that still be an invalid statement?
From what I know/read, water-air is more efficient (less pressure drop) when it comes to smaller cooling rates, whereas FMIC come in handy when you need a higher cooling rate. That isn't 100% accurate is it?
12-30-2009, 08:09 PM
#85
Kyle, I really appreciate you chiming in.. I'd give you a rep point if we had that thing going on here too. You know what they say, pictures speak a 1000 words.
But we could to an extent generalize by saying, a front mount intercooler is intended for more "hardcore" use.. Or would that still be an invalid statement?
From what I know/read, water-air is more efficient (less pressure drop) when it comes to smaller cooling rates, whereas FMIC come in handy when you need a higher cooling rate. That isn't 100% accurate is it?
But we could to an extent generalize by saying, a front mount intercooler is intended for more "hardcore" use.. Or would that still be an invalid statement?
From what I know/read, water-air is more efficient (less pressure drop) when it comes to smaller cooling rates, whereas FMIC come in handy when you need a higher cooling rate. That isn't 100% accurate is it?
Front mount intercoolers really just refer to the location of the intercooler, it doesn't really mean anything in regards to its cooling efficiency. For example, the Toyota Supra's came with side mount intercoolers and they were good up to about 500 horsepower. But, when you did a front mount intercooler you could achieve substantially more power. On the 300ZX the side mount intercoolers were actually the best way to go because a large front mount intercooler would be blowing hot air (after it came through the intercooler) into the intakes and a/c condensors and radiator's.
Realistically the only thing that matters when talking about intercoolers is that the intercooler is sized appropriately for the job at hand. As long as the intercooler, whether it be air to air or air to water is sized appropriately and can cool effectively that's all that matters.
Here are some things to consider when thinking about cooling.
Front mount intercoolers actually get pretty hot, the idea of an intercooler is to have fresh outside air blow over the top of the air inside and cool it down...Well that heat has to go somewhere. Where can it go? Directly into your radiator, oil cooler, a/c condensor, power steering cooler and everything else behind it...
An air to water intercooler still has the heat exchanger out front that still requires air to flow through it and therefore has hot air coming off of it but because the heat exchanger is so much smaller it is substantially less hot air coming off and going through everything else.
12-30-2009, 08:13 PM
#86
Administrator
Thanks for the clarification 
12-30-2009, 09:19 PM
#87
I been around this scene for too long to know Stillen products, you should see the threads customers used to start back then on how they use to hack up their customers cars and the customers will leave super pissed off, or how some customers were pissed at this and that product. How some customers complained their azz off on the way they were treated when things didn't go right. Not only that most of the time they don't know what theyre talking about, either on big power for the vq or FI, have a conversation with sam@gtm about build motors and FI and talk to stillen about the same, you can tell the knowledge between the 2 services.
For god sakes the Stillen unit for the g/z is sooo weenie you dont even have to tune it! Slap that thing on and its ready! But its not carb legal! Stage 2 is carb legal but doesnt even come with an intercooler! Stage 3 and 4 puts 320-340whp and is not carb legal!! WTF! And it requires you to buy a ugly azz hood. You can spend less money, get a better system, and put more power. WTF. Please dont do this again for the g37.
I dont smash I only acknowledge then speak, if you made a badazz kit for the g37 I'd give you props not hate so I aint intentionally bashing or trying to ***** for another company. I push products to and I push stuff I stand next to, there-fore I aint pushing none of your shiet, only thing maybe is your license plate bracket, that was a success!
For god sakes the Stillen unit for the g/z is sooo weenie you dont even have to tune it! Slap that thing on and its ready! But its not carb legal! Stage 2 is carb legal but doesnt even come with an intercooler! Stage 3 and 4 puts 320-340whp and is not carb legal!! WTF! And it requires you to buy a ugly azz hood. You can spend less money, get a better system, and put more power. WTF. Please dont do this again for the g37.
I dont smash I only acknowledge then speak, if you made a badazz kit for the g37 I'd give you props not hate so I aint intentionally bashing or trying to ***** for another company. I push products to and I push stuff I stand next to, there-fore I aint pushing none of your shiet, only thing maybe is your license plate bracket, that was a success!
