Ester Oil?
10-13-2009, 12:20 AM
#182
Registered User
Pennzoil Platinum is a great oil. HOWEVER....if you're doing a LOT of tracking, you might want to consider a Group V oil like Motul 300v. It is a TRUE ester oil (and has the price tag to prove it). However, those who've used it and track their cars swear by it for engine protection. Then again, if you track your car only occasionally, you'd probably be fine with Pennz Platinum (which is what I use in my G37) and fresh oil change after the track. But I'd consider the 300v for track use. Just my opinion....I know the experts will chime in here shortly.
10-13-2009, 10:49 AM
#184
Registered User
tell us why you are switching? From what I know and understand about
the VVEL system, heavier weight oils effect the speed of tiiming
changes in the valve train, especially the retard. I'll be anxious to hear
if the change in response is noticiable to you. .....Here is the
the explaination for my comments....
" CVTC is integrated into the intake cam sprocket. It consists of a vane equipped inner rotor attached to the intake cam which is free to rotate within a housing machined into the intake cam gear. A pulse width modulated solenoid controlled by the engines ECU meters pressurized oil from the engines oil pump to the vaned chamber in the gear. As oil is let into the chamber, it moves the vanes with the engines rotation and advances the cam. When the ECU wants to retard the cam, it meters the oil draining out of the chamber allowing the cam to retard. By metering the inlet and outlet oil flow, the advance and retard of the intake cams can be controlled in a stepless manor.
The CVTC system has a comand authority of 37 degrees and the mechanical capabilty to move 39 degrees on the older versions of the VQ engine. The VQ37VHR has a larger control range. The unique VVEL system completely controls the intake valves opening and closing events. The VVEL system is exceedingly complicated using two separate rotating shafts driving links that operate eccentrics activating a valve activating reciprocating rocker arm that takes the place of the traditional cam lobe. The rocker slides back and forth on the valves conventional cam follower to open and close the valves. The rocker is equipped with a moving fulcrum which can quickly change the motion ratio of the eccentric to the rocker. The fulcrum position is controlled by a powerful stepper motor controlled by the VVEL computer. This Rube Goldberg-like system of linkages and shafts gives the ability to steplessly change the duration and lift of the intake valves quickly on the fly. The command authority of the VVEL system is great enough so controlling valve opening is the primary means of throttling the VQ37VHR’s output, instead of traditional throttle plates"
In a nutshell, the advance and retard of the VVEL is activated by
monitoring oil flow..this is the heart of why oil selection is so
critical to response and proper lubrication of this engine. Understanding
how the VVEL works leaves no doubt that this engine is going to be more responsive and run better on some oils than others. AND TODD....it's
not "magical" or irrelevant.
10-13-2009, 11:15 AM
#185
Registered User
Todd, this may help you and others understand what you refer to as "magical" oil
and how it works. This is from Nissan. Even Nissan says group III oils without
the necessary additives contribute to unnecessary wear and why in the VQ37.
If you still want to use Mobil 1 after reading this, then you are the one in your
own "Narrow minded world"....especially considering that only 24 hours ago you were posting incorrectly that Nissan Ester was not the
factory fill and that its use was not mentioned in the owners
manual...Who lives in a narrow minded world???? Hope this helps, and hope you can get over insulting
people you don't agree with who are trying to be constructive.
Hydrogen-free DLC-Coated Engine Valve Lifter
Nissan Motor Co. Ltd.,
1. Introduction
One effective way to improve the fuel economy of vehicles is to reduce the mechanical losses that occur in internal combustion engines. Reducing friction between the cam and valve lifter in a direct-acting valvetrain contributes substantially to improving fuel economy especially in the practical speed range of everyday driving. This is because such friction accounts for a large 15-20% of total engine friction in this low speed range. Since the lubrication state at the sliding surface between the cam and valve lifter is in the boundary or mixed lubrication region, smoothing their surface roughness so as to reduce their real contact area and reducing the friction coefficient at the contact points by applying a solid lubricant are effective ways of reducing friction between them. The authors have developed and applied a hydrogen-free diamond-like carbon (DLC) coating for this purpose, focusing on its smoothness, high hardness and solid lubricity effect. As a result of applying this coating to the valve lifter, it was found that friction with the cam was markedly reduced, which contributes to improved fuel economy.
2. Technical details
Figure 1 shows a cross-sectional photo of an engine cylinder head and a photo of a valve lifter coated with the hydrogen-free DLC coating. The DLC coating is applied to the valve lifter crown that slides on the cam lobe surface.
Figure 2 shows the results of pin-on-disk (POD) friction tests conducted on test pieces. It is seen that the friction coefficient declined as the hydrogen content of the DLC coating was reduced, with the lowest value being displayed by the hydrogen-free DLC coating (a-C coating). That result is attributed to the suppression of metal contact at the sliding surface owing to accelerated adsorption by the a-C coating of oiliness agents in the engine oil. Since the engine oil used in this evaluation contained many additives besides the oiliness agents, an investigation was made of the potential friction reduction obtainable with a combination of the a-C coating and oiliness agents. For that purpose, 1 wt% of glycerin-mono-oleate (GMO) was added to a synthetic poly-alphaolefin (PAO) oil as an oiliness agent to produce a prototype oil for use in conducting a POD evaluation. The results are shown by the dashed line in Fig. 2. The friction reduction effect became more pronounced with a lower hydrogen content and friction was reduced by as much as 75% compared with the result seen for a conventional 5W30 engine oil.
To confirm the friction reduction effect in an actual engine, measurements were made of the camshaft friction torque in a V6 engine and the results are shown in Fig. 3. To separate the effect of the surface roughness, the results are plotted in relation to the combined roughness of the cam and valve lifter following the test. The combination of the a-C coating and 5W30 engine oil showed the lowest level of friction torque. The result can be explained in terms of the improvement of the combined surface roughness together with the solid lubricity effect of the coating. The combination of the a-C coating and the PAO + GMO prototype oil had the effect of reducing friction by approximately 60% compared with a phosphate coating. This indicates that there is a large potential for reducing friction through further engine oil improvements.
3. Conclusion
The hydrogen-free DLC-coated valve lifter was first applied to a new V6 engine that was released in the fall of 2006, together with the use of a DLC-compatible 5W30GF4 fuel-saving engine oil. The application of this valve lifter will be expanded to other engines in the near future, and it is also planned to expand the application of the a-C coating to piston rings and other sliding parts.
__________________
and how it works. This is from Nissan. Even Nissan says group III oils without
the necessary additives contribute to unnecessary wear and why in the VQ37.
If you still want to use Mobil 1 after reading this, then you are the one in your
own "Narrow minded world"....especially considering that only 24 hours ago you were posting incorrectly that Nissan Ester was not the
factory fill and that its use was not mentioned in the owners
manual...Who lives in a narrow minded world???? Hope this helps, and hope you can get over insulting
people you don't agree with who are trying to be constructive.
Hydrogen-free DLC-Coated Engine Valve Lifter
Nissan Motor Co. Ltd.,
1. Introduction
One effective way to improve the fuel economy of vehicles is to reduce the mechanical losses that occur in internal combustion engines. Reducing friction between the cam and valve lifter in a direct-acting valvetrain contributes substantially to improving fuel economy especially in the practical speed range of everyday driving. This is because such friction accounts for a large 15-20% of total engine friction in this low speed range. Since the lubrication state at the sliding surface between the cam and valve lifter is in the boundary or mixed lubrication region, smoothing their surface roughness so as to reduce their real contact area and reducing the friction coefficient at the contact points by applying a solid lubricant are effective ways of reducing friction between them. The authors have developed and applied a hydrogen-free diamond-like carbon (DLC) coating for this purpose, focusing on its smoothness, high hardness and solid lubricity effect. As a result of applying this coating to the valve lifter, it was found that friction with the cam was markedly reduced, which contributes to improved fuel economy.
2. Technical details
Figure 1 shows a cross-sectional photo of an engine cylinder head and a photo of a valve lifter coated with the hydrogen-free DLC coating. The DLC coating is applied to the valve lifter crown that slides on the cam lobe surface.
Figure 2 shows the results of pin-on-disk (POD) friction tests conducted on test pieces. It is seen that the friction coefficient declined as the hydrogen content of the DLC coating was reduced, with the lowest value being displayed by the hydrogen-free DLC coating (a-C coating). That result is attributed to the suppression of metal contact at the sliding surface owing to accelerated adsorption by the a-C coating of oiliness agents in the engine oil. Since the engine oil used in this evaluation contained many additives besides the oiliness agents, an investigation was made of the potential friction reduction obtainable with a combination of the a-C coating and oiliness agents. For that purpose, 1 wt% of glycerin-mono-oleate (GMO) was added to a synthetic poly-alphaolefin (PAO) oil as an oiliness agent to produce a prototype oil for use in conducting a POD evaluation. The results are shown by the dashed line in Fig. 2. The friction reduction effect became more pronounced with a lower hydrogen content and friction was reduced by as much as 75% compared with the result seen for a conventional 5W30 engine oil.
To confirm the friction reduction effect in an actual engine, measurements were made of the camshaft friction torque in a V6 engine and the results are shown in Fig. 3. To separate the effect of the surface roughness, the results are plotted in relation to the combined roughness of the cam and valve lifter following the test. The combination of the a-C coating and 5W30 engine oil showed the lowest level of friction torque. The result can be explained in terms of the improvement of the combined surface roughness together with the solid lubricity effect of the coating. The combination of the a-C coating and the PAO + GMO prototype oil had the effect of reducing friction by approximately 60% compared with a phosphate coating. This indicates that there is a large potential for reducing friction through further engine oil improvements.
3. Conclusion
The hydrogen-free DLC-coated valve lifter was first applied to a new V6 engine that was released in the fall of 2006, together with the use of a DLC-compatible 5W30GF4 fuel-saving engine oil. The application of this valve lifter will be expanded to other engines in the near future, and it is also planned to expand the application of the a-C coating to piston rings and other sliding parts.
__________________
Last edited by JonfromCB; 10-13-2009 at 12:12 PM.
10-13-2009, 03:04 PM
#186
Since engine wear just isn't an issue with synthetics, why do you think you suddenly need this odd invention to protect your highly unusual, special Nissan engine? If Nissan really came up with such a valuable invention, they would be licensing the technology to Mobil or Castrol, who have huge motor oil market shares, instead of trying to 'recommend' it to gullible Nissan owners.
Engine wear isn't an issue with conventional oils either, under normal use. I challenge you to find me a SINGLE car that has suffered engine failure from insufficient lubrication from a CONVENTIONAL oil, when it has had regular oil changes at the specified interval.
The ester oil Nissan makes was originally manufactured specifically to accommodate the lubrication needs of the VVEL system. Nothing more, nothing less. Nissan has neither claimed extended OCI in the past with it, nor will they in the future. It is used to address the VVEL tick.
Nissan also does not claim additional protection. It is merely "recommended", and is the appropriate fix for the VVEL tick TSB. No more, no less.
10-13-2009, 03:18 PM
#187
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm going to step in again in response to this uneducated, and obviously unresearched post.
Engine wear isn't an issue with conventional oils either, under normal use. I challenge you to find me a SINGLE car that has suffered engine failure from insufficient lubrication from a CONVENTIONAL oil, when it has had regular oil changes at the specified interval.
The ester oil Nissan makes was originally manufactured specifically to accommodate the lubrication needs of the VVEL system. Nothing more, nothing less. Nissan has neither claimed extended OCI in the past with it, nor will they in the future. It is used to address the VVEL tick.
Nissan also does not claim additional protection. It is merely "recommended", and is the appropriate fix for the VVEL tick TSB. No more, no less.
Engine wear isn't an issue with conventional oils either, under normal use. I challenge you to find me a SINGLE car that has suffered engine failure from insufficient lubrication from a CONVENTIONAL oil, when it has had regular oil changes at the specified interval.
The ester oil Nissan makes was originally manufactured specifically to accommodate the lubrication needs of the VVEL system. Nothing more, nothing less. Nissan has neither claimed extended OCI in the past with it, nor will they in the future. It is used to address the VVEL tick.
Nissan also does not claim additional protection. It is merely "recommended", and is the appropriate fix for the VVEL tick TSB. No more, no less.
10-13-2009, 03:26 PM
#188
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Saint charles, Missouri
Posts: 727
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think its time to put my two cents in without getting too technical. Ive been a mobil 1 user throughtout the time ive owned my G. Ive had no issues AT ALL with it. If i were to switch I would go with the penzoil plat. as far as eister oil goes its just a recomendation that nissan uses. NIssan also uses the non synthetic radiator fluid....so does that mean i should use that instead of evans coolant for my turbo kit? no but then again I did go with FI. so I guess the real call is to see how my car reacs with the KIT on my car.
13 page thread about oil....gotta love this forum
were gonna pound info in your head weather ya like it or not lol
13 page thread about oil....gotta love this forum
were gonna pound info in your head weather ya like it or not lol
10-13-2009, 06:31 PM
#190
Redline, have you had any noise issues using the 40 weight? Can you
tell us why you are switching? From what I know and understand about
the VVEL system, heavier weight oils effect the speed of tiiming
changes in the valve train, especially the retard. I'll be anxious to hear
if the change in response is noticiable to you. .....Here is the
the explaination for my comments....
" CVTC is integrated into the intake cam sprocket. It consists of a vane equipped inner rotor attached to the intake cam which is free to rotate within a housing machined into the intake cam gear. A pulse width modulated solenoid controlled by the engines ECU meters pressurized oil from the engines oil pump to the vaned chamber in the gear. As oil is let into the chamber, it moves the vanes with the engines rotation and advances the cam. When the ECU wants to retard the cam, it meters the oil draining out of the chamber allowing the cam to retard. By metering the inlet and outlet oil flow, the advance and retard of the intake cams can be controlled in a stepless manor.
The CVTC system has a comand authority of 37 degrees and the mechanical capabilty to move 39 degrees on the older versions of the VQ engine. The VQ37VHR has a larger control range. The unique VVEL system completely controls the intake valves opening and closing events. The VVEL system is exceedingly complicated using two separate rotating shafts driving links that operate eccentrics activating a valve activating reciprocating rocker arm that takes the place of the traditional cam lobe. The rocker slides back and forth on the valves conventional cam follower to open and close the valves. The rocker is equipped with a moving fulcrum which can quickly change the motion ratio of the eccentric to the rocker. The fulcrum position is controlled by a powerful stepper motor controlled by the VVEL computer. This Rube Goldberg-like system of linkages and shafts gives the ability to steplessly change the duration and lift of the intake valves quickly on the fly. The command authority of the VVEL system is great enough so controlling valve opening is the primary means of throttling the VQ37VHR’s output, instead of traditional throttle plates"
In a nutshell, the advance and retard of the VVEL is activated by
monitoring oil flow..this is the heart of why oil selection is so
critical to response and proper lubrication of this engine. Understanding
how the VVEL works leaves no doubt that this engine is going to be more responsive and run better on some oils than others. AND TODD....it's
not "magical" or irrelevant.
tell us why you are switching? From what I know and understand about
the VVEL system, heavier weight oils effect the speed of tiiming
changes in the valve train, especially the retard. I'll be anxious to hear
if the change in response is noticiable to you. .....Here is the
the explaination for my comments....
" CVTC is integrated into the intake cam sprocket. It consists of a vane equipped inner rotor attached to the intake cam which is free to rotate within a housing machined into the intake cam gear. A pulse width modulated solenoid controlled by the engines ECU meters pressurized oil from the engines oil pump to the vaned chamber in the gear. As oil is let into the chamber, it moves the vanes with the engines rotation and advances the cam. When the ECU wants to retard the cam, it meters the oil draining out of the chamber allowing the cam to retard. By metering the inlet and outlet oil flow, the advance and retard of the intake cams can be controlled in a stepless manor.
The CVTC system has a comand authority of 37 degrees and the mechanical capabilty to move 39 degrees on the older versions of the VQ engine. The VQ37VHR has a larger control range. The unique VVEL system completely controls the intake valves opening and closing events. The VVEL system is exceedingly complicated using two separate rotating shafts driving links that operate eccentrics activating a valve activating reciprocating rocker arm that takes the place of the traditional cam lobe. The rocker slides back and forth on the valves conventional cam follower to open and close the valves. The rocker is equipped with a moving fulcrum which can quickly change the motion ratio of the eccentric to the rocker. The fulcrum position is controlled by a powerful stepper motor controlled by the VVEL computer. This Rube Goldberg-like system of linkages and shafts gives the ability to steplessly change the duration and lift of the intake valves quickly on the fly. The command authority of the VVEL system is great enough so controlling valve opening is the primary means of throttling the VQ37VHR’s output, instead of traditional throttle plates"
In a nutshell, the advance and retard of the VVEL is activated by
monitoring oil flow..this is the heart of why oil selection is so
critical to response and proper lubrication of this engine. Understanding
how the VVEL works leaves no doubt that this engine is going to be more responsive and run better on some oils than others. AND TODD....it's
not "magical" or irrelevant.
10-13-2009, 06:37 PM
#191
I don't hear any engine knocking at all. What I did notice is that my engine takes longer to warm up on a cold start. After it warms up the first time, it doesn't have a problem getting to operating temp on other starts. I'm switching over because the price of the oil is a bit high, and I was told that the 0W-40 oil's make the engine work harder. I'm planning on switching over to Eneos 5W-30. I will keep you guys updated once I get my oil changed.
10-13-2009, 06:58 PM
#192
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with you. Engine wear isn't an issue with any oil with an appropriate OCI. Nissan does not 'recommend' this oil for any reason other than the TSB. It does not recommend this oil for proper operation, decreased wear, improved performance or any other unsubstantiated reasons.
10-14-2009, 07:20 AM
#194
Like I said before, this will go on and on and on. I gave up trying to argue. Various opinions and info that could all be right to certain degrees and no real way to prove or disprove any of it......God I love online forums! E-thuggin at it's finest
Last edited by BradManUWF; 10-14-2009 at 07:32 AM.
10-14-2009, 09:57 AM
#195
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Saint charles, Missouri
Posts: 727
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agreed, You can throw as much info as you want to try to back up any one of your guys theory but the truth of the matter is, its in the eye of the beholder. Only you will be able to tell which oil is really best for YOUR car and YOUR driving style. Ive never been so tired of reading about OIL!!! lol.