Buddy Revell

iTrader: (2)

Is there an ETA for the G37 Accessport yet?

chamelieon

iTrader: (1)

it is very noticeble how the car reacts to the different instakes. i had make 2 small 45 deg bends as intakes that go from the throttle body to the air box with the MAF's on it, and they were both 3", i drove around for about a month with them and got really used to the car, i felt laggyness in certain areas but the car responded well. i just put back the stock rubber intakes just a few days ago and its night and day how much more responsive the car is now esp under 3k rpms and in the mid rpms. i did dyno 290whp bone stock when i first got the car and i just havent had the time to do a comparison on the dyno.

all i can say is usually the 4cyl race motors i build make 300whp average, and thats through a single 3" intake. so goes to show that the VHR being dual will benefit mainly from 2.5 intakes or 2.75 .. they dont need volume, thats why there are 2. they need air velocity, thats why they can be smaller tubing.

i do know the rubber ridges on the rubber tubes has to be some kind of restriction to air flow. i have seen it on the dyno and tested it myself with other motors.

so i will test out intakes when i get the time to spend an hour or so on the dyno again. hopefully very soon.

bboysteele

Glad you are on here now Tim. I was going to call you today but was to busy at work. I need to know the process you followed when you did the dyno between the stock intake and the JWT if you could post that. Like when you did an ECU reset and how many pulls you performed after this. I am going to be doing another comparison between the two and want to follow the same process you did. Sorry but there is no way that the stock intake on the G37 produces 17lbs of torque over the JWT. The dynos that I did with the JWT show about 10 HP and 5 TQ over the stock intake. We performed the intake swap while the car was on the dyno and did about 4 runs with stock and about 10 runs with the JWTs after an ECU reset. The tuner I go to is Cobb certified so we will be doing another dyno test with the JWT and the stock intake along with the new Stillen Gen3 intake. The dyno that was posted showed the TQ at 257 max and an increase across the whole powerband. I will say that the JWT loses a little under 2k RPM but above 2500 it performs better in the two separate dynos that were done on this forum. I am not blaming NeverBoneStock since I don't believe it is his fault. I was going to blame your shop and wonder if you were just trying to pull a fast one on NeverBoneStock. I hope this is not the case and I don't really think it is anymore but I would like the 17TQ explained if you could. The other reason I wondered was the tuned G37 with the stock intake lost 11TQ (246TQ) over the non-tuned so I know that the one dyno that was posted on here was not correct. Here is the tuned dyno sheet that was posted:



Now going back to stock for the tune does make perfect sense to me as you posted. If NeverBoneStock does still have his JWT intake I would recommend that you look at mapping those when you guys get a chance or when the first tuning stage is complete. Not trying to get on your case or anything and I thank you for helping this Cobb tuning stuff along so we can get this AP out for everyone. I just want accurate info to be released about products that are available for the G37. We will find out though if the JWT losses power in about a week when I do another dyno test along with how much power the Stillen Intake makes over the stock intake.

Sincerely,
BBoysteele

Seer

i dont think resetting the ecu can tune your car... like every other modern car out there, you need to use a software suite hooked through the obdII to pull the tables from the ecu, then edit them, and load them back in.

All youre doing by resetting the ecu is resetting long term fuel trims, which will still go wacky after so many miles again.

I don't think this car has a self learning feature to recalibrate its volumetric efficiency tables. I mean that would usually require a wideband o2 sensor to check against commanded vs actual readings, since commanded vs narrowband o2 voltage is so broad of a comparison.

Seer

is there a tuning suite available for this car yet? As I am a former EFI Live, SCT, and HPtuners guru.

bboysteele

Resetting the ECU does not tune the car but it does clear those values that can hamper the performance of your car with the new mod because it is use to not having the mod. The car will adapt with time but resetting the ECU just makes the process a lot quicker. I have seen it work.

Seer

so basically it resets the LTFT's? which i can see that working to a point

NeverBoneStock

iTrader: (25)

Hopefully Tim will chime in and explain this ....

NeverBoneStock

iTrader: (25)

Here is the dyno for JWT and stock . You have to remember Bboy that when you dyno you had hfc , jwt and stock exhaust . When I dyno I had hfc , jwt and FI catback exhaust . My exhaust was flowing more than your setup at the time . With that setup my jwt were the weak link . Thats why difference between the two. Once again with my exhaust setup the stock intakes proved to be the best..

bboysteele

I hope so. I am not trying to blame you NeverBoneStock and I hope it is just a mistake on Surgelines part. I can see the stock intake being better on the low end but I have also been told that the little bit of lose that I got can be recovered with an ECU tune by the tuners I have talked to. I just want to make sure the correct info it put out there. If the JWT losses power over stock then I am find with that but I need proof and the previous dynos that were posted, I am sorry, are just not possible. I could see the stock maybe being better with the FI exhaust if it was just my dyno but PMS did a dyno as well and she has the same setup as you and see got gains. Regardless, I will be doing another dyno to get some accurate numbers as far as which is best and at what RPM for both the stock and the JWT. I am a little pissed right now due to me having to waste my money to get this straightened out and none of the experienced tuners/modders on here spoke up about these weird dyno numbers on here or tried to explain them if they were possible. Again NeverBoneStock, I am not blaming you and I am glad you could help Cobb so hopefully they can release their product sooner. But I also don't want you to get screwed out of money encase someone tells you that these Cobb intakes are going to produce so much better than anything else out there OR that no intake for the G37 is good so why don't you just get these Cobb intakes which work just as good as the stock but they sound and look so much better. I am not saying that this is the case but I just want to know how they got these number or if they can explain them. If they cannot explain them then they can tell me the process they used to dyno the car such as number of pulls and ECU resets and when so I can reproduce these dynos. The numbers might not be as great as yours but if that dyno was accurate then I will see a torque increase across the entire power curve and it should be around 10TQ.

LTFT's? Not sure what that means but if that are those learned values that the ECU stores then yes. It is not a tune like some people might think. It just allows the car to adjust sooner to the mod that you install BUT you will still want to get a true ECU tune to take advantage of the real power behind your mods.

NeverBoneStock, I understand what you are saying but my problem is the how much better it is over the JWT. The only way the numbers in that graph are really possible are if the JWTs were not installed correctly, the dyno was tampered with, or maybe the car was suffering heatsoak when the JWT runs were performed. The last reason is one of the reasons why Stillen wants a Nissan Consult system used to monitor during dyno runs to check the engine temp to make sure it is within specs. I wait about an hour or more before I do a dyno run when I drive the 60+ miles to the dyno shop so that heat soak is not a factor. I have done a dyno when I first got to the place and saw 10HP/10TQ gone easily from heat soak.

Seer

^^^ yes LTFT's is a standard term for Long Term Fuel Trims. Which are stored over time, and become the average fueling. You cant really do a fuel edit without changing the ecu commands, but you can do a soft reset/relearn on all vehicles by resetting the ecu/pulling the fuse.

STFT's, short term fuel trims, reset with every ignition off.

Buddy Revell

iTrader: (2)

I think PMS1212 has the same setup you do, and she showed some solid gains with the JWT.

herrjr

iTrader: (1)

You bring up a key issue here: heat-soak. This was a problem that I noticed with my own Injen testing. I didn't bother with attempting to compensate for this issue, because I wanted to see how much it would affect performance, since heat-soaking will inevitably occur during the course of normal driving. And since you saw this on your JWT dynos as well, then it appears obvious that although this or the Injen will make power initially, that over time heat-soak issues will overcome any gains and will result in overall power loss. I am not at all surprised that the stock intake (thus far) continues to out-perform under ALL conditions. I expect, in time, that we'll see one that will truly show power increases under all conditions. However, it remains to be seen as of yet.

SurgeLineTuning

The dyno facilities at SurgeLine and COBB Tuning have an abundence of airflow and little opportunity for heat soak during the fall or winter. In fact, on this G37 i always did 3 or 5 runs in a row after any tuning changes. This is because the best/most consistent power curves were observed after several runs were performed.

herrjr

iTrader: (1)

That may be so Tim, but here in CA I drive my car in the summer and spring too. And it can be triple digits on some days, so, driving on the road I fully expect to see heat-soak become an issue, and do not overly concern myself with what dyno results show. The point I was trying to make is that the stock intakes are also tested under DRIVING conditions, whereas aftermarket intakes are tested under DYNO conditions. And regardless of how wonderful dyno conditions are, my car is used for driving on roads.

I appreciate your testing very much and the results that you've discovered so far; I can't wait to get an AP for my G. I loved it for my STI when I had it.