Cams??
09-15-2008, 12:48 PM
#16
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Could be anywhere from $750 to $2,400... Depending on the grind... Still verifying though...
James I have a buddy who can hook you up with some custom-ground cams... He's checking to see if they've already sized up the stock cams... If not, then they'd need all 4 of your stockers to work off of... Gimme a call tomorrow if you're interested...
I'm thinkin bout doin this too... Not too sure how long it'll take to size the stocks though...
James I have a buddy who can hook you up with some custom-ground cams... He's checking to see if they've already sized up the stock cams... If not, then they'd need all 4 of your stockers to work off of... Gimme a call tomorrow if you're interested...
I'm thinkin bout doin this too... Not too sure how long it'll take to size the stocks though...
09-15-2008, 02:11 PM
#17
You all might want to take a look at this guide to VVEL from Nissan....
Take a look at this picture of the cam system....The VQ37HR doesn't have old school cam shafts you can just swap out with a more agressive set. The assembly is cappable of full range valve movement so if you want to change valve timing you need to do it in the ECU.
I don't know what vendors are talking about when they say that cams are comming out for the VQ37HR. Are they supposed to be put in the trunk during winter for better traciton, because thats all they would be good for.
Take a look at this picture of the cam system....The VQ37HR doesn't have old school cam shafts you can just swap out with a more agressive set. The assembly is cappable of full range valve movement so if you want to change valve timing you need to do it in the ECU.
I don't know what vendors are talking about when they say that cams are comming out for the VQ37HR. Are they supposed to be put in the trunk during winter for better traciton, because thats all they would be good for.
09-15-2008, 02:19 PM
#18
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You all might want to take a look at this guide to VVEL from Nissan....
Take a look at this picture of the cam system....The VQ37HR doesn't have old school cam shafts you can just swap out with a more agressive set. The assembly is cappable of full range valve movement so if you want to change valve timing you need to do it in the ECU.
I don't know what vendors are talking about when they say that cams are comming out for the VQ37HR. Are they supposed to be put in the trunk during winter for better traciton, because thats all they would be good for.
Take a look at this picture of the cam system....The VQ37HR doesn't have old school cam shafts you can just swap out with a more agressive set. The assembly is cappable of full range valve movement so if you want to change valve timing you need to do it in the ECU.
I don't know what vendors are talking about when they say that cams are comming out for the VQ37HR. Are they supposed to be put in the trunk during winter for better traciton, because thats all they would be good for.
09-15-2008, 02:44 PM
#20
You can't change them out because there isn't a cam shaft in the traditional sense to begin with. The valve operation on our cars employs a motorized adjustment of the valves that has an "infinite" amount of adjustment and is cappable of being adjusted on the fly. If the engine had traditional cam shafts like the VQ35/VQ35HR did, then yes you could swap out cam shafts and get better valve timing, but you would then be restricted to only the timing physically set by the cam shaft installed. The VVEL system is superior in the fact that it can be adjusted to whatever "profile" you'd like so long as you have the means to do so. Hopefully ECU reflashes and products like the Accessport can give us the control necessary to make changes to the valve timing for better performance
09-15-2008, 04:01 PM
#21
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VVEL is only for intake valves. I believe you could change the exhaust valve cam (it appears to be more like a standard cam) but not sure that helps without changing the lift/duration profile on the intake came. I assume you would want to change the cams for a specific purposes such as making a dedicated track car and and give up street drivability. if that is so, I think the VVEL system would get in the way and a VQ35HR engine build might be a better place to start (certainly more after-market products).
09-15-2008, 04:06 PM
#22
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Yeah Im sure if there is a solution than the guys @ JWT will get it figured out. As long as the solution gains power and doesnt lose any driveablity....than it wll be a win-win situation.
09-15-2008, 04:07 PM
#23
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You can't change them out because there isn't a cam shaft in the traditional sense to begin with. The valve operation on our cars employs a motorized adjustment of the valves that has an "infinite" amount of adjustment and is cappable of being adjusted on the fly. If the engine had traditional cam shafts like the VQ35/VQ35HR did, then yes you could swap out cam shafts and get better valve timing, but you would then be restricted to only the timing physically set by the cam shaft installed. The VVEL system is superior in the fact that it can be adjusted to whatever "profile" you'd like so long as you have the means to do so. Hopefully ECU reflashes and products like the Accessport can give us the control necessary to make changes to the valve timing for better performance
09-15-2008, 05:04 PM
#24
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Yes, it does change the cam profile and the timing at same time on an infinite curve to have greater lift earlier and longer. Whatever the engine needs/can deliver based on your right foot input. A traditional cam swap would be a step backwards for power and fuel efficiency.
But an afterrmarket ECU tuner could change the valve lift vs RPM function with a re-flash.
You could in theory also change the input cam (the eccentric cam). In fact it appears like the input cam may be easier to manufacture with standard cam grinders than the output cam would be to machine?
As I understand it, with VVEL you get the drivability and emissions of a low lift cam with the efficiency and peak HP of a high lift cam at higher RPMs.
09-15-2008, 05:31 PM
#25
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You all might want to take a look at this guide to VVEL from Nissan....
Take a look at this picture of the cam system....The VQ37HR doesn't have old school cam shafts you can just swap out with a more agressive set. The assembly is cappable of full range valve movement so if you want to change valve timing you need to do it in the ECU.
I don't know what vendors are talking about when they say that cams are comming out for the VQ37HR. Are they supposed to be put in the trunk during winter for better traciton, because thats all they would be good for.
Take a look at this picture of the cam system....The VQ37HR doesn't have old school cam shafts you can just swap out with a more agressive set. The assembly is cappable of full range valve movement so if you want to change valve timing you need to do it in the ECU.
I don't know what vendors are talking about when they say that cams are comming out for the VQ37HR. Are they supposed to be put in the trunk during winter for better traciton, because thats all they would be good for.
It will be interesting to see if the ECU flashing companies can decipher the goings on of VVEL and adjust it with a flash. The first guinea pig to try that will be a brave sole.
09-15-2008, 05:50 PM
#26
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Nice find. That PDF is one of the best descriptions I've seen so far... although I don't have a VVEL equipped car.
It will be interesting to see if the ECU flashing companies can decipher the goings on of VVEL and adjust it with a flash. The first guinea pig to try that will be a brave sole.
It will be interesting to see if the ECU flashing companies can decipher the goings on of VVEL and adjust it with a flash. The first guinea pig to try that will be a brave sole.
Actually it's pretty stable in design, the cam phasing is the same basic control as is on the previous cars and works very well. Now it's just adding adjustable lift, and the dynamics of those two devices working together to give the intake cam complete control. Nissan did all the hard work for us.
There should be room left for aftermarket valves, and exhaust cams. Though I seriously doubt many companies are just going to try and jump into replacement intake cams for these motors.
09-15-2008, 05:51 PM
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Not sure the profile is changed and it is not infinite. It appears that VVEL mostly changes the lift, but the valve opening profile comes from the output cam. So the ECU can really only control the lift, not the profile or cam timing. The current output cam profile has limits to the total lift (important if you are doing internal engine changes).
But an afterrmarket ECU tuner could change the valve lift vs RPM function with a re-flash.
You could in theory also change the input cam (the eccentric cam). In fact it appears like the input cam may be easier to manufacture with standard cam grinders than the output cam would be to machine?
As I understand it, with VVEL you get the drivability and emissions of a low lift cam with the efficiency and peak HP of a high lift cam at higher RPMs.
But an afterrmarket ECU tuner could change the valve lift vs RPM function with a re-flash.
You could in theory also change the input cam (the eccentric cam). In fact it appears like the input cam may be easier to manufacture with standard cam grinders than the output cam would be to machine?
As I understand it, with VVEL you get the drivability and emissions of a low lift cam with the efficiency and peak HP of a high lift cam at higher RPMs.
Almost
. The ECU still controls the output cam via the cam advance solenoids hydraulically (just like it has since the 350Z came out in 2003) so you can tweak the lift and duration w/ the VVEL and you can tweak the timing & overlap w/ the cam advance. It's still not infinite of course (Z/G advance has always been limited to 30 degrees on the intake and exhaust), but it should still give you PLENTY of room to run a slew of cam "profiles" just by tweaking the ECU parameters. I’m not calming to be an expert on this system (yet) since we’ve only just begun to reverse engineer the ECU code and the control algorithms, but I thought I would put forth the little insight I do have thus far.On another note, our end user system should be out within a couple of weeks now, and although we won’t be able to provide base maps for the guys that just want a flash (no base maps for HR motors yet) it will give those of you how are familiar w/ tuning the ability to start tweaking the factory ECUs on your own right away.
09-15-2008, 05:53 PM
#28
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Almost . The ECU still controls the output cam via the cam advance solenoids hydraulically (just like it has since the 350Z came out in 2003) so you can tweak the lift and duration w/ the VVEL and you can tweak the timing & overlap w/ the cam advance. It's still not infinite of course (Z/G advance has always been limited to 30 degrees on the intake and exhaust), but it should still give you PLENTY of room to run a slew of cam "profiles" just by tweaking the ECU parameters. I’m not calming to be an expert on this system (yet) since we’ve only just begun to reverse engineer the ECU code and the control algorithms, but I thought I would put forth the little insight I do have thus far.
On another note, our end user system should be out within a couple of weeks now, and although we won’t be able to provide base maps for the guys that just want a flash (no base maps for HR motors yet) it will give those of you how are familiar w/ tuning the ability to start tweaking the factory ECUs on your own right away.
. The ECU still controls the output cam via the cam advance solenoids hydraulically (just like it has since the 350Z came out in 2003) so you can tweak the lift and duration w/ the VVEL and you can tweak the timing & overlap w/ the cam advance. It's still not infinite of course (Z/G advance has always been limited to 30 degrees on the intake and exhaust), but it should still give you PLENTY of room to run a slew of cam "profiles" just by tweaking the ECU parameters. I’m not calming to be an expert on this system (yet) since we’ve only just begun to reverse engineer the ECU code and the control algorithms, but I thought I would put forth the little insight I do have thus far.On another note, our end user system should be out within a couple of weeks now, and although we won’t be able to provide base maps for the guys that just want a flash (no base maps for HR motors yet) it will give those of you how are familiar w/ tuning the ability to start tweaking the factory ECUs on your own right away.
jared@uprev.com
09-15-2008, 08:23 PM
#29
Not sure the profile is changed and it is not infinite. It appears that VVEL mostly changes the lift, but the valve opening profile comes from the output cam. So the ECU can really only control the lift, not the profile or cam timing. The current output cam profile has limits to the total lift (important if you are doing internal engine changes).
But an afterrmarket ECU tuner could change the valve lift vs RPM function with a re-flash.
You could in theory also change the input cam (the eccentric cam). In fact it appears like the input cam may be easier to manufacture with standard cam grinders than the output cam would be to machine?
As I understand it, with VVEL you get the drivability and emissions of a low lift cam with the efficiency and peak HP of a high lift cam at higher RPMs.
But an afterrmarket ECU tuner could change the valve lift vs RPM function with a re-flash.
You could in theory also change the input cam (the eccentric cam). In fact it appears like the input cam may be easier to manufacture with standard cam grinders than the output cam would be to machine?
As I understand it, with VVEL you get the drivability and emissions of a low lift cam with the efficiency and peak HP of a high lift cam at higher RPMs.
09-16-2008, 05:56 PM
#30
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Nice to see Jared and Rich over here on the myG37 site.
I'm amazed at some of the possibilities VVEL brings to the table... Software camshafts... Now that will be cool....
Imaging changing camshaft profiles with your five Osiris maps...
I'm amazed at some of the possibilities VVEL brings to the table... Software camshafts... Now that will be cool....
Imaging changing camshaft profiles with your five Osiris maps...
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