Don't Use Nissan OEM Oil Filters (Long Post - Lotsa Pics)
06-18-2011, 05:40 PM
#91
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Awesome posts Motor25 (& Co). Thanks for going through the effort and expense of cutting these open, taking pictures, evaluating and posting for us. I agree with Motor25; yeah you probably will be fine with the OEM filter, but knowing how cheap the OEM's are and how important clean oil is, why not pay less to get a MUCH better quality filter?
06-18-2011, 05:47 PM
#92
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Motor25:
A very enjoyable round of discussion. Well done and I knew as I started reading this that you were going to get hammered eventually. Personally I use Wix filters almost exclusively, I have cut them apart, I use their racing filter on racing motors and if a stare and compare doesn't convince someone - then not much else is either. I have forgotten who actually manufacturers the Fram filters now, think Champion or something like that, but you see their "build" in a lot of different filters that have different paint and names on them. I have seen Fram units collapse inside and also burst their seam between the can and mounting plate. The last one I cut open was a pain as the metal can is now even thinner than before. I cut open a Wix at the same time and it cut open without any problems. I really like the post about cutting a used filter, yes it makes a mess but we do them on the race motors at every change. I also cut one open on every vehicle I have at least once a year - just to check out the condition of the engine. I laugh when someone says they have never seen anything, I have saved more than one engine via this early warning system.
So a good question really is: will a Nissan filter do the job and the answer is yes of course it will - it just will not perform to the level that a better, higher grade filter will. If you have no interest and plan on letting the vehicle go, then who cares? Let the next person worry about it. But if your ride is important - then pay attention - bad products, even *OEM* ones can cause damage. Using a larger filter is also a good thing - there was some useless babble about the larger one not being engineered for that vehicle - total bunk. When Nissan or any other manufacturer designs an engine, they make some choices: room for the filter, flow requirements, filter capacity at some X number times their recommended change number to allow for idiots that change oil/filter when they happen to think about it. After all of that, they go to the catalog and pick a filter that meets their needs. If there were *engineered* filters for every automotive application out there, your normal parts outlet or even dealership couldn't stock them all. The Nissan filter application fits all kinds of vehicles, even Kubuta tractors so you really think that filter is *engineered* for your specific engine? Dream on.
Again, very enjoyable post - thank you!
A very enjoyable round of discussion. Well done and I knew as I started reading this that you were going to get hammered eventually. Personally I use Wix filters almost exclusively, I have cut them apart, I use their racing filter on racing motors and if a stare and compare doesn't convince someone - then not much else is either. I have forgotten who actually manufacturers the Fram filters now, think Champion or something like that, but you see their "build" in a lot of different filters that have different paint and names on them. I have seen Fram units collapse inside and also burst their seam between the can and mounting plate. The last one I cut open was a pain as the metal can is now even thinner than before. I cut open a Wix at the same time and it cut open without any problems. I really like the post about cutting a used filter, yes it makes a mess but we do them on the race motors at every change. I also cut one open on every vehicle I have at least once a year - just to check out the condition of the engine. I laugh when someone says they have never seen anything, I have saved more than one engine via this early warning system.
So a good question really is: will a Nissan filter do the job and the answer is yes of course it will - it just will not perform to the level that a better, higher grade filter will. If you have no interest and plan on letting the vehicle go, then who cares? Let the next person worry about it. But if your ride is important - then pay attention - bad products, even *OEM* ones can cause damage. Using a larger filter is also a good thing - there was some useless babble about the larger one not being engineered for that vehicle - total bunk. When Nissan or any other manufacturer designs an engine, they make some choices: room for the filter, flow requirements, filter capacity at some X number times their recommended change number to allow for idiots that change oil/filter when they happen to think about it. After all of that, they go to the catalog and pick a filter that meets their needs. If there were *engineered* filters for every automotive application out there, your normal parts outlet or even dealership couldn't stock them all. The Nissan filter application fits all kinds of vehicles, even Kubuta tractors so you really think that filter is *engineered* for your specific engine? Dream on.
Again, very enjoyable post - thank you!
07-04-2011, 05:03 PM
#93
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In my opinion, all oil filters made today are good enough for "normal" use.
If you change your oil every ~3000 miles or 3 months and don't have severe driving conditions (extreme heat/performance/racing, cold starts/short trips, stop and go traffic, extreme dust), then it probably doesn't matter because the oil will probably never get saturated or sit long enough to cause major engine problems.
Once you start using the engine in those "severe" driving conditions, the oil filter can prolong the life of the oil and engine by making sure no large deposits screw anything up and let you go further before you actually need to change the [synthetic] oil.
Ideally you want a filter that...
* doesn't restrict oil flow through the filter
* resistant to tears
* resistant to chemicals
* absorbs lots of [fine] dirt
* working bypass valve
* working anti-drain valve
* has a stable geometry
* has a strong/solid outer case
* has high quality seals
In my experience, the Nissan OEM filter is fine for everything if you change it every 3000 miles or 3 months because that will prevent any major failures of the points listed above. It's not as large and can't filter as much, but it's not a extended service (15000 mile/ 1 year or more) item. The seals are the oly weak point for me since I redline my engine a lot. However, the oil lost is minimal and if I follow the service plan, I'll replace it before it gets bad enough to be dangerous.
I personally recommend filters that follow "Champion Labs" non-ECore filters. The K&N and Mobil 1 are made by them. AMSOil, Hard Driver, Motorcraft, Dana/WIX (Napa), PowerFlo/ProLine/Purolator Prem. Plus, or Purolator Pure One are all good choices.
Personally, I use Mann or Mahle filters since that was the OEM supplier for the BMWs and Porsche I've driven to the limits. Mahle filters are harder to get so I usually go with Mann. Probably 1/3 or 1/2 the price of the Mobil 1/K&N and works well.
Using Castrol Edge 5W-30, Full Synth Group 4 PAO.
2000 miles driven: The oil was visibly dirtier when using the Nissan OEM filter when compared to the Mann/Mahle.
2200 miles driven - same oil: The Mann/Mahle filters kept the oil visibly cleaner and didn't leak at the seals. I would be able to go longer without an oil change when compared to the Nissan OEM filter. (Based on Used Oil Analysis).
I haven't tried others. I also won't be watching this thread.
Oil Filter Points
--------------
Cheaper filters will let some larger particles through the filter which ends up in the oil which will reduce the life of the oil. The small particles won't harm the engine unless they build up and become large enough to cause clearance issues.
In extreme pressure conditions (for those red-lining and racing), cheaper filters will tear and some oil will not be filtered thus allowing the larger particles back into the engine.
Cheaper oil filters tend to have poor seals and in extreme driving, oil will leak out from the filter housing and engine block (I have had this problem with the Nissan OEM filter). Also, some cheap filters don't have good surface protection which means water or chemicals or a rock could puncture the unit and cause a quick failure due to a large leak or outside contamination. This is unlikely on the higher end cars as the filters are usually physically protected.
Cheaper filters may not include a bypass valve or may have one that doesn't work reliably (cold start failure). Good filters will open this bypass valve to allow more oil flow when it's needed or if the filter is too dirty to allow enough flow as dirty oil is better than no oil.
Also, the anti drain valve on cheaper filter may not exist or may not work. This is here to make sure the oil doesn't drain out of the filter when the engine is off. This allows for the correct oil pressure during starting which is where the most stress on the engine happens.
If you change your oil every ~3000 miles or 3 months and don't have severe driving conditions (extreme heat/performance/racing, cold starts/short trips, stop and go traffic, extreme dust), then it probably doesn't matter because the oil will probably never get saturated or sit long enough to cause major engine problems.
Once you start using the engine in those "severe" driving conditions, the oil filter can prolong the life of the oil and engine by making sure no large deposits screw anything up and let you go further before you actually need to change the [synthetic] oil.
Ideally you want a filter that...
* doesn't restrict oil flow through the filter
* resistant to tears
* resistant to chemicals
* absorbs lots of [fine] dirt
* working bypass valve
* working anti-drain valve
* has a stable geometry
* has a strong/solid outer case
* has high quality seals
In my experience, the Nissan OEM filter is fine for everything if you change it every 3000 miles or 3 months because that will prevent any major failures of the points listed above. It's not as large and can't filter as much, but it's not a extended service (15000 mile/ 1 year or more) item. The seals are the oly weak point for me since I redline my engine a lot. However, the oil lost is minimal and if I follow the service plan, I'll replace it before it gets bad enough to be dangerous.
I personally recommend filters that follow "Champion Labs" non-ECore filters. The K&N and Mobil 1 are made by them. AMSOil, Hard Driver, Motorcraft, Dana/WIX (Napa), PowerFlo/ProLine/Purolator Prem. Plus, or Purolator Pure One are all good choices.
Personally, I use Mann or Mahle filters since that was the OEM supplier for the BMWs and Porsche I've driven to the limits. Mahle filters are harder to get so I usually go with Mann. Probably 1/3 or 1/2 the price of the Mobil 1/K&N and works well.
Using Castrol Edge 5W-30, Full Synth Group 4 PAO.
2000 miles driven: The oil was visibly dirtier when using the Nissan OEM filter when compared to the Mann/Mahle.
2200 miles driven - same oil: The Mann/Mahle filters kept the oil visibly cleaner and didn't leak at the seals. I would be able to go longer without an oil change when compared to the Nissan OEM filter. (Based on Used Oil Analysis).
I haven't tried others. I also won't be watching this thread.
Oil Filter Points
--------------
Cheaper filters will let some larger particles through the filter which ends up in the oil which will reduce the life of the oil. The small particles won't harm the engine unless they build up and become large enough to cause clearance issues.
In extreme pressure conditions (for those red-lining and racing), cheaper filters will tear and some oil will not be filtered thus allowing the larger particles back into the engine.
Cheaper oil filters tend to have poor seals and in extreme driving, oil will leak out from the filter housing and engine block (I have had this problem with the Nissan OEM filter). Also, some cheap filters don't have good surface protection which means water or chemicals or a rock could puncture the unit and cause a quick failure due to a large leak or outside contamination. This is unlikely on the higher end cars as the filters are usually physically protected.
Cheaper filters may not include a bypass valve or may have one that doesn't work reliably (cold start failure). Good filters will open this bypass valve to allow more oil flow when it's needed or if the filter is too dirty to allow enough flow as dirty oil is better than no oil.
Also, the anti drain valve on cheaper filter may not exist or may not work. This is here to make sure the oil doesn't drain out of the filter when the engine is off. This allows for the correct oil pressure during starting which is where the most stress on the engine happens.
Last edited by secured2k; 07-04-2011 at 05:24 PM.
08-05-2011, 04:26 PM
#97
- Some filters do not have an anti drainback valve.
- Different filters have different psi settings for the bypass valve (i'm not going to waste my time explaining why it's important to match the valve psi setting to OEM specs)
- when doing large OCI's, the filter material is very important.
12-21-2011, 12:32 AM
#99
Registered Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Scottsdale
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only and HUGE glaring issue with the OP is that no one has ever been able to prove that cardboard end plates pose a problem or have caused any oil related failures.
This has been a heavily debated topic over the years over at bobistheoilguy.com and the conclusion for the most part is although we frown on the cardboard design zero evidence has pointed to any failures as a result.
I highly doubt that Nissan would use this filter on virtually every model vehicle they manufacturer for several years now with the idea that they are jeopardizing hundreds of thousands of engines in use.
I've used all of them from Amsoil to Wix, OEM and everything in between, not once did my engine perform any different following the standard OCI specified by Nissan.
This has been a heavily debated topic over the years over at bobistheoilguy.com and the conclusion for the most part is although we frown on the cardboard design zero evidence has pointed to any failures as a result.
I highly doubt that Nissan would use this filter on virtually every model vehicle they manufacturer for several years now with the idea that they are jeopardizing hundreds of thousands of engines in use.
I've used all of them from Amsoil to Wix, OEM and everything in between, not once did my engine perform any different following the standard OCI specified by Nissan.
03-30-2012, 02:59 AM
#101
I wish they sold the Purolator filter here locally. Any idea how many miles you can get on the Purolator filter? I always run the Mobile 1 Extended Performance filter and change the oil at 5k miles.
08-27-2012, 08:40 PM
#102
The only and HUGE glaring issue with the OP is that no one has ever been able to prove that cardboard end plates pose a problem or have caused any oil related failures.
This has been a heavily debated topic over the years over at bobistheoilguy.com and the conclusion for the most part is although we frown on the cardboard design zero evidence has pointed to any failures as a result.
I highly doubt that Nissan would use this filter on virtually every model vehicle they manufacturer for several years now with the idea that they are jeopardizing hundreds of thousands of engines in use.
I've used all of them from Amsoil to Wix, OEM and everything in between, not once did my engine perform any different following the standard OCI specified by Nissan.
This has been a heavily debated topic over the years over at bobistheoilguy.com and the conclusion for the most part is although we frown on the cardboard design zero evidence has pointed to any failures as a result.
I highly doubt that Nissan would use this filter on virtually every model vehicle they manufacturer for several years now with the idea that they are jeopardizing hundreds of thousands of engines in use.
I've used all of them from Amsoil to Wix, OEM and everything in between, not once did my engine perform any different following the standard OCI specified by Nissan.
The OEM filter is fine for the 3750-7500 OCI that Nissan recommends. I've used OEM filters with PU or G-oil G-Oil 5W-30 Bio-Synthetic Motor Oil, 5qt: Automotive : Walmart.com on now 5K OCIs with no issues and ZERO oil consumption. The next change coming up will be with Fram Ultra ($8.97 @ Chinamart) and G-oil on a 5k OCI. I'm at 24,3xx now.
Fram Ultra and Xtended guard seem to be quite robust and a good value. I'd stay away from the OCOD from Fram due to the fact I think it's overpriced for what you get.
In the end I have no issue using OEM again, but my parts hook up left for a Honda store...
09-20-2012, 05:19 PM
#103
Just did my 22K service with M1 Ext Per 5-w30 which is a group 5 Sync oil. I using the new Bosch DistancePlus! oil filter.. I was using Nissan Ester oil with Nissan filter for first 20K miles. My G feels smoother with M1 and BOSCH filter! I ran the Nissan stuff up to 5K miles.
http://www.boschautoparts.com/Filter...ilFilters.aspx
http://www.boschautoparts.com/Filter...ilFilters.aspx
11-16-2012, 07:57 AM
#104
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Genuine Nissan Filter for Qashqai / Dualis
Genuine Nissan Oil Filter
Oil Filter N 16
15208 7M600
Made in Thailand
Filter is for a Nissan Qashqai / Dualis J10 Models 2007-2010
Filter media appears to be made from a rigid cellulose material.
By-pass valve seems to be good quality.
I would have no concerns using this filter on my vehicle.
Youtube video of tear down
<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/M6YzUARKUZ4" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>
Oil Filter N 16
15208 7M600
Made in Thailand
Filter is for a Nissan Qashqai / Dualis J10 Models 2007-2010
Filter media appears to be made from a rigid cellulose material.
By-pass valve seems to be good quality.
I would have no concerns using this filter on my vehicle.
Youtube video of tear down
<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/M6YzUARKUZ4" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>
11-17-2012, 12:31 PM
#105
Registered Member
Motor25
Thanks for taking the time to cut open the oil filters
I usually do my own oil changes however so far on the two so far on my 2012 G37S they have been done by the dealer. I did 48 out of the 53 oil changes on my 06 G35 that was traded in in August with 171796 miles. I've never used synthetic oil and probably never will because as others have mentioned I do oil changes around 3500 miles and I'm too cheap to spend so much money on oil that will be in my engine for such a short time.
I've had one oil filter failure in my lifetime about 30 years ago that was a purolator filter for a 1980 Diesel Rabbit.The seal leaked after doing an oil change even though the filter was tightened another 1/8 turn after hand tight. Fortunately I had a factory OEM filter on hand.
I generally stick with OEM filters and use whatever oil is on sale at Pep Boys
Reading thru this entire thread wasn't a complete waste of almost an hour because I did get a few chuckles out of some of the posts.
We could always switch to discussing gasoline octane because I only use regular
Telcoman
Thanks for taking the time to cut open the oil filters
I usually do my own oil changes however so far on the two so far on my 2012 G37S they have been done by the dealer. I did 48 out of the 53 oil changes on my 06 G35 that was traded in in August with 171796 miles. I've never used synthetic oil and probably never will because as others have mentioned I do oil changes around 3500 miles and I'm too cheap to spend so much money on oil that will be in my engine for such a short time.
I've had one oil filter failure in my lifetime about 30 years ago that was a purolator filter for a 1980 Diesel Rabbit.The seal leaked after doing an oil change even though the filter was tightened another 1/8 turn after hand tight. Fortunately I had a factory OEM filter on hand.
I generally stick with OEM filters and use whatever oil is on sale at Pep Boys
Reading thru this entire thread wasn't a complete waste of almost an hour because I did get a few chuckles out of some of the posts.
We could always switch to discussing gasoline octane because I only use regular
Telcoman