Trommsdorff

First post here. This is an awesome thread, full of lots of valuable information. I have learned SO MUCH. Thanks for starting and maintaining it.

I have a few questions. You frequently describe the general process of clay/polish/glaze/seal/extender/wax.

If the glaze basically applies a liquid or oil to fill in some clear coat defects, how well can a sealant possibly bond to a liquid?

You mention that a sealant, like FMJ, lasts about 4 months and that can perhaps be extended using HGAS or comparable product. FMJ basically puts an acrylic coating on top of the clear coat, and then HGAS is extra coating on top of that. How can the FMJ wear down while the HGAS is on top? I don't understand why (or how) if HGAS is applied weekly or biweekly that the FMJ will ever be degraded, except from mechanical abrasion ?

I guess those are my only questions.

Thanks again for a great thread.

Detailed Image

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the positive feedback on the thread. I can tell you soaked up a lot of information based on the questions your asking. Regarding the glaze, it depends on the glaze. Certain glazes are more oily, for example, Clear Kote Red Moose Glaze, and can hinder the sealants ability to bond to the paint. A glaze that has polymers in it, such as Chemical Guys EZ-Creme Glaze, works great with sealants since polymers are the backbone to most sealants.

Your top coating is only as durable as the coat underneath it. Sealants and waxes over time will dissipate and become weaker and weaker, even if there's a coat on top of it. For example, if you applied a coat of carnauba wax first (wrong order but just for example), then a coat of sealant on top, the durability you'd receive would be equal to the wax since it would dissipate first and the sealant would go along with it.

Good questions, if there's anything else I can help answer for you, please do not hesitate to ask.

Cheers,

George

Trommsdorff

Sounds good. Since you offered, here's the detail process I have penciled in on my wife's black car (2007 model, garaged but daily driver). I don't want to buy *everything* at once (although I am buying from your store), I'm trying to not spend a small fortune as I have to buy the Porter Cable to start.

a) Wash, dry
b) Claybar
c) Menzerna PPO106ff (white pad? It's not in bad shape, when clean and in direct sunlight there are not many swirls present -- if it doesn't get them all I will not lose any sleep)
d) Menzerna FMJ x2 (blue pad, black pad, hand wipe)
e) Menzerna HGAS (hand wipe?)
f) Wax <--- is this needed if use HGAS on every wash?

Some more questions.
1) What do you think of this process and pad choice?

2) I have never used any type of machine buffer. If I buy a PC, do I *need* to buy the counterweight and backing plate?

3) Does the FMJ or HGAS require a buff? If so, what should I use to buff with?

4) Will her car look that much better if I use a glaze in between C and D ? That is, to a newbie like me (and especially her), will there be a noticeable difference?

5) How does one strip the FMJ (to re-apply every 6 months)? I don't see how anything other than mechanical abrasion (polish) will strip it since supposedly it is a crosslinked polymer (IPA + water won't do it).

6) Do swirls just magically appear, if the car is carefully washed? That is, will I need to polish every time I detail?

Thanks again.

Detailed Image

iTrader: (2)

Your process looks pretty solid. If you haven't given your car a serious detail yet, you'll be very pleased with the results. PO106FF with a white pad would be what I'd recommend. If you need more cut, you will probably want to switch the entire polish / pad combo. For the FMJ, if you want to apply it with the buffer, go with the blue pads for both coats. Also, be sure to wait 24 hours between coats to get the maximum benefits of layering the FMJ. Otherwise you'd just be ensuring even coverage by doing one after another.

If you go the HGAS route, what I'd recommend doing is either spraying the product into a plush microfiber towel and wipe down each panel. Then follow up with another clean towel to ensure there are no streaks left behind.

The other alternative is to find a wax you like, and use that on top of the FMJ after regular washes, or every other wash or once a month. It may take 10 - 15 minutes longer, but it will add more depth and gloss to the paint than the HGAS. HGAS is formulated to work specifically with FMJ so it is a great option. It really boils down to what you'd like to use to maintain, but I'd choose one or the other, not both.

When you purchase the PC, you don't have to purchase the counterweight, that just helps reduce the vibrations slightly. The backing plate however is a necessity to use the various Lake Country pads we offer.

Yes, you'll have to remove the FMJ and wipe down the HGAS. You're best bet is to invest in some quality microfiber towels. For product removal, I personally use our All Purpose MF Towels.

Honestly, I'd focus on polishing correctly first. You're going to see a drastic difference with the plan you already outlined. As you get more into detailing, then experiment with the glaze option. I'd recommend doing a 2 step polish over the 1 step polish + glaze route. You'll notice a much bigger difference by removing more imperfections during the polishing stage.

To remove the previous coats of FMJ to start fresh, you certainly can polish the paint, this will ensure there is nothing left behind. You can wash with a stripping shampoo, such as Chemical Guys Citrus Wash & Gloss at a 2oz / gallon ratio. ISA shouldn't have any problems removing previous coats of protection, I've yet to find a product we carried that stood up to it. Using a clay bar can help aid in removing protective coats.

Swirls typically appear from using improper washing and drying techniques, products and tools. They certainly aren't limited to that though. Anytime there is a light layer of dust on your car and someone brushes up against it (say in a parking lot), chances are swirls will be added. Heavy winds with debris can create swirls, it doesn't take much that's for sure. I typically polish my paint once (twice tops) a year with a multi-step polish routine. Sometimes in between I'll hit it with a finishing polish. It depends on how **** I am about keeping the paint as near imperfection free as possible.

Hope this helps clear things up for you. Keep the questions coming and definitely keep us posted on your experience after you get a chance to detail.

George

07BlackG35Stud

iTrader: (1)

George,

Is P21S clear-bra safe?

Thanks!

Detailed Image

iTrader: (2)

Which product? The waxes? Waxes are ok to use on clear bra's, however they wouldn't be my top choice. I personally would recommend a nice all in one chemical cleaner and sealant, such as Klasse All In One, so that you can clean the clear bra then protect it (for longer than a wax) in one step.

George

wuuuuuuuu

Questions about the 303 spot cleaner and remover. For the plastic parts at the bottom of the door and the dash, do I just spray it and leave it there for a few minutes then wipe with a clean dry MF towel? Thanks George!

Detailed Image

iTrader: (2)

I typically spray a tiny bit onto the affected area, let it dwell for a bit, then agitate the surface with the microfiber towel (a light scrub) not just a wipe. For stubborn stains, consider using a medium bristled brush to really get a deeper clean, but follow the same techniques.

George

07BlackG35Stud

iTrader: (1)

Thanks! Sorry I didn't specify...the product I was referring to is the P21S Auto Wash (orange based). I just got it and it specifies it is clear coat/paint safe and that it can be sprayed all over the car prior to cleaning. So I was wondering if I should avoid the clear bra since the orange may have some acid in it?!?

Detailed Image

iTrader: (2)

Total Auto Wash is a citrus degreaser and works great on paint, plastic, rubber, vinyl and upholstery. It's a very safe and effective product to use, extremely versatile. The only thing I'd advise is trying not to saturate where the edge of the clear bra is and let it sit there for prolonged periods of time, just in case it breaks down the adhesives. A little certainly wouldn't hurt though.

George

07BlackG35Stud

iTrader: (1)

George,

I just washed my cars using the products I got from you and I must say I'm very impressed by the results. I have a few questions:

1) The microfiber waffle weave drying towel, how do I go about drying it? Do I let it air dry? Does it need to be washed? What's the maintenance for this? I went ahead and squeezed most of the water out of it, folded it and placed it back in the plastic that it came in because I don't want any foreign objects attaching to it, but I'm sure it needs to be dried.

2) The sheep hair mitt: I rinsed it off with water once I was done and then squeezed all the water out of it...anything else that needs to be done?

I ask these questions because I want to make sure when I reuse them I don't scratch my car's clear coat.

Thanks!

Detailed Image

iTrader: (2)

Good questions. For complete head to toe care on microfiber, I'd recommend reading our How to Care for Microfiber Guide.

For your mitt, simple rinse the mitt as you did, then using the leather hoop, let it hang dry for maximum results. You never want to put a sheepskin mitt in a washer / dryer.

If you have any other questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

George

07BlackG35Stud

iTrader: (1)

Thank you so much George! One last question and sorry to bug you so much. This morning was my second time using the microfiber towel. It was somewhat damp, but I had squeezed as much water out of it as possible. I noticed since it wasn't anywhere near sunny, I had a very rough time trying to dry my car. It would pick up the heavy water, but after a while, it would just leave water marks everywhere once the water came down to practically nothing.

I tried this for about 30 min but it just wouldn't dry the car, so I had to switch to the old, rubber-like absorbing sheet (which I didn;t really want to use) Am I doing something wrong? I thought it was convenient to wash the car while cold and when it's not sunny, but I couldn't get it to dry properly using the towel.

???

Thanks!

Trommsdorff

So, I tested out my assorted fluids, Porter Cable, and detailing paraphernalia from Detailed Image on my wife's Toyota Highlander.

1) Cleaned the inside. Nothing special here, I am saving my pennies to buy some "leatherique" conditioner and Aerospace 303 protectant. As it was I had various armor-all, mothers, and mcguires products on the shelf and I used them.
2) Wash with sheepskin mit for top sections and Ulltimit for bottom using the two bucket system.
3) Dry with waffle weave towel. It was worth the money.
4) Took the "Before" pic below.
5) Claybar using Claymagic fine grade claybar and Mother's "Showtime" lube I had from a previous clarbar.
6) 50/50 IPA/water the whole vehicle.
7) Polished using Menzerna PPO106ff with the PC at 5. Admittedly, this is my first time using this, but it took FOREVER. It also made a ton of dust. I probably used too much of the fluid.
8) Removed the polish using three microfiber towels. Not sure if this was the greatest approach but it was really tough to get everything off. One towel was dampened and used to get the bulk of it off. The second towel was also dampened, and used to get the remainder off. The last towel was barely wet and used to dry the car. This really took a long time.
9) Took the second picture below.
10) Applied Menzerna FMJ to the whole car using PC at 3.5 with the blue pad. I followed the instructions that came with it, it really did not take much material. In fact it took so little I wondered if it was working. I should have done one section, then buffed it off according to instructions, but I applied to the whole vehicle, then buffed the vehicle off.
11) At this point, we had to go to a party so just buffed it off with a dry microfiber cloth. I did not snap any more photos, but during buffdown it was clear that the FMJ works as stated - nice color depth and great-feeling smooth finish.

My observations:

There were a lot more swirls to start than I thought originally. I think I got about 95% of them, whereas the car was COVERED with them before, there's maybe one swirl line where there was hundreds before. But, there's stil swirls.

The polish was a pain to remove. I probably did it somewhat incorrectly, but it took a long time to get it completely off.

The FMJ was amazingly easy to remove and as far as level of effort expended (extremely low) vs visual payoff (very high), this was the clear winner.

I already had a few microfiber towels, they are pretty useful, surprisingly also on the inside. I wiped/rubbed down the interior seats with some white "rags" -- got some dirt off, made it a little shiny, great. Then I took the same seat and did the same treatment with a microfiber towel, man did it get a TON of dirt off. The microfiber towel was white to start and brown when I was done. Kind of gross, I am not sure if that's dirt or old "protectant" or what.


I have more questions. First, I would have liked to put a second coat of FMJ on. If I wait a week, and then wash it, can I put the FMJ on then? (Will I need to claybar, which will remove the FMJ)?

Second, her wheels (The rubber) are gross and filthy. The spray on foam junk I have from the local store doesn't work. I have some "Wesleys' Bleche White" that I know will work like a charm, but I'm scared it will eat the rims (they are factory but nice alloyed wheel rims). I would like to get the Poorboy's wheel sealant for the rims, what is a good tire cleaner and "protectant" for the rubber tire sidewalls?

Detailed Image

iTrader: (2)

Good questions. First off, I'd highly recommend utilizing the sheeting method prior to drying with your drying towel. Basically, it's taking the nozzle off of your hose and using free flowing water to sheet it off the paint. Start from the top and work your way down, creating a cascading effect which helps pull the water off of the car. This will remove 80% or more of the water on your paint leaving behind just a small amount of water to clean up afterwards.

I think what went wrong in your scenario was the towel was damp. I find that if they aren't completely dry, they can leave behind traced of water which could form into the water spots your describing. It is best to wash when the vehicle is not in the sun, sun is the enemy. What you can do next time if you use a damp drying towel is follow up with some quick detailer and a regular microfiber towel to clean up the small remains of water.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the thorough writeup about your detailing experience. Regarding the PO106FF, I can almost guarantee that you used too much product. It's funny, I've yet to have Menzerna polishes dust much on me and they are always easy to remove when using the proper amount of polish. I recently shot some photos and video of a detail I did over the past 4 days and I'll be putting together a very extensive how-to explaining each step I did in thorough detail. Still sounds like you got good results considering you only used a finishing polish, which isn't too strong. Consider bumping up to a medium cutting polish to tackle some of those deeper imperfections or if you're really **** and want to go for perfection, a compound, then medium cut polish, then the PO106FF. In the grand scheme of things, PO106FF rates about a 3 out of 10 in terms of aggressiveness.

For your next coat of FMJ, you should only need to wash and dry then apply the next coat. I usually only clay my car before a thorough polishing session, which is anywhere between 1 - 3 times a year.

For a great tire cleaner, I turn to P21S Total Auto Wash. It's a citrus based cleaner that is safe on most wheel finishes. For a dressing, Poorboy's Bold 'n Bright is a nice option as well as the Blackfire Long Lasting Tire Gel w/ Polycharger.

If you have any other questions on anything, let me know!

George