Carfax horror.
12-07-2011, 08:15 PM
#1
Carfax horror.
BEWARE with CarFax, they PAY people to report incidents, and body item purchases.
So when buying any body parts on the internet, DO NOT give out your VIN when requested.
It will get reported as an accident.
I bought OEM foglights for my wifes Volvo 2 years ago, gave the dealer in Boston (internet order ) my VIN.
CarFax reported as a front end accident IN BOSTON!!
It's the same as a bank having your SS# and reporting to a credit report agency.
So when buying any body parts on the internet, DO NOT give out your VIN when requested.
It will get reported as an accident.
I bought OEM foglights for my wifes Volvo 2 years ago, gave the dealer in Boston (internet order ) my VIN.
CarFax reported as a front end accident IN BOSTON!!
It's the same as a bank having your SS# and reporting to a credit report agency.
12-07-2011, 08:18 PM
#2
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Anyone who puts faith in carfax deserves what they get. Like any reporting agency, they suck. Only difference is they don't have an FCRA or FDCPA that they have to legally abide by. They say what they want.
12-08-2011, 12:35 AM
#4
Would they benefit if all reports were blank!!
There are no checks and balances with those people (CarFax).
No oversight.
At least with the big 3 credit agencies, there are ways and means to dispute
inaccuracies.
Just saying, DO NOT enter your VIN when buying car parts online!!
12-08-2011, 01:58 AM
#6
Well it's obviously fraudulent for them to report a car has been in a wreck when it hasn't. So I'm just trying to understand why they'd do it if they don't gain anything by it. It doesn't make sense for them to take the risk of breaking the law without some sort of gain in it for them, does it?
12-08-2011, 06:41 AM
#7
Well it's obviously fraudulent for them to report a car has been in a wreck when it hasn't. So I'm just trying to understand why they'd do it if they don't gain anything by it. It doesn't make sense for them to take the risk of breaking the law without some sort of gain in it for them, does it?
There is other talk about insurance companies having to cover the depreciated value due to carfax because of reasons above. Basically if you have $500 damage, the carfax entry depreciates the vehicle another $1500, you get $2000 claim.
CARFAX's advertising worked as planned and has dealerships marketing everything as "Clean Carfax" and if it has any entry, the dealership looks at it as a hurdle to sell the car. Why CARFAX isn't more meticulous about there entries and care what they are doing, I don't know...
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12-08-2011, 08:44 AM
#8
Registered User
Wait, so I bought touch-up paint from the dealer and I believe they asked for my VIN. Does that mean the car will be reported as having been repainted on a CarFax?
12-08-2011, 10:19 AM
#9
Registered Member
Well it's obviously fraudulent for them to report a car has been in a wreck when it hasn't. So I'm just trying to understand why they'd do it if they don't gain anything by it. It doesn't make sense for them to take the risk of breaking the law without some sort of gain in it for them, does it?
That is the only reason I see of them wanting to over reporting incidents.
12-08-2011, 10:29 AM
#10
I know it doesn't make sense, but trust me, they WILL end up in a big lawsuit. My cousin who is a big wig in the auto industry out of DC said their has already been attempts of class action lawsuits. I personally experienced a negative effect from CARFAX when I received a door ding in a parking lot and reported it so that the person was held accountable. A 10 min dentless repair and the thing was gone, but when I went to trade-in, all the report said was "Accident reported" and I lost thousands on trade-in. Through fighting, I did end up speaking with a manager at carfax. I think it made it worse when all they did was change the details to "damage received in parking lot".
There is other talk about insurance companies having to cover the depreciated value due to carfax because of reasons above. Basically if you have $500 damage, the carfax entry depreciates the vehicle another $1500, you get $2000 claim.
CARFAX's advertising worked as planned and has dealerships marketing everything as "Clean Carfax" and if it has any entry, the dealership looks at it as a hurdle to sell the car. Why CARFAX isn't more meticulous about there entries and care what they are doing, I don't know...
There is other talk about insurance companies having to cover the depreciated value due to carfax because of reasons above. Basically if you have $500 damage, the carfax entry depreciates the vehicle another $1500, you get $2000 claim.
CARFAX's advertising worked as planned and has dealerships marketing everything as "Clean Carfax" and if it has any entry, the dealership looks at it as a hurdle to sell the car. Why CARFAX isn't more meticulous about there entries and care what they are doing, I don't know...
You beat me to it!
Jeremy,
Google CarFax complaints, too much to say here!
You'll understand.
12-08-2011, 11:27 AM
#11
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12-08-2011, 11:28 AM
#12
Scandalous. I've never used Carfax becasue I guess it's been since about '96 since I last bought or sold a used car. Thanks for the heads up.
I guess it proves there's no substitute for being knowledgeable about cars and going over every inch of a used car you are considering buying with a fine tooth comb and actually knowing what to look for. But finding your car with no accidents has been listed as being in an accident is crazy. I'm not one of those personal information security nut jobs but I've never given my VIN when buying parts except at the dealership becasue many of those parts monkeys don't know one car or part from another any other way.
I guess it proves there's no substitute for being knowledgeable about cars and going over every inch of a used car you are considering buying with a fine tooth comb and actually knowing what to look for. But finding your car with no accidents has been listed as being in an accident is crazy. I'm not one of those personal information security nut jobs but I've never given my VIN when buying parts except at the dealership becasue many of those parts monkeys don't know one car or part from another any other way.
12-08-2011, 04:49 PM
#13
Hey guys,
So I actually work with carfax to provide them with data for my business. When I first started my partnership with them, I had to write some code that does the data submission to their servers.
The basic idea is that reporters (such as myself) are supposed to report their data at least once per month to carfax. In exchange, the reporter gets free advertising in the form of links and descriptions that show up in the carfax reports.
Every reporter has a different system in place, and carfax's retarded system actually makes accurate reporting a whole heck of a lot more complicated than it has to be.
In my case, I send customer's line items from my invoices directly to carfax with the only identifying information being the VIN. What this is supposed to do is provide carfax with a detailed description of the services that I performed on the customer's car and help raise resale value of the vehicle. Recently, I have been fighting with these guys because I found out that my detailed descriptions are being ignored and the only thing that shows up is "vehicle serviced."
To sum it up, all I can say is that when they see body panels being replaced, they probably assume an accident, just as when they see all my list of services, they probably assume standard vehicle service.
So I actually work with carfax to provide them with data for my business. When I first started my partnership with them, I had to write some code that does the data submission to their servers.
The basic idea is that reporters (such as myself) are supposed to report their data at least once per month to carfax. In exchange, the reporter gets free advertising in the form of links and descriptions that show up in the carfax reports.
Every reporter has a different system in place, and carfax's retarded system actually makes accurate reporting a whole heck of a lot more complicated than it has to be.
In my case, I send customer's line items from my invoices directly to carfax with the only identifying information being the VIN. What this is supposed to do is provide carfax with a detailed description of the services that I performed on the customer's car and help raise resale value of the vehicle. Recently, I have been fighting with these guys because I found out that my detailed descriptions are being ignored and the only thing that shows up is "vehicle serviced."
To sum it up, all I can say is that when they see body panels being replaced, they probably assume an accident, just as when they see all my list of services, they probably assume standard vehicle service.
12-09-2011, 09:56 AM
#14
Beware of Carfax!
Carfax is notorious for poor customer service and hiding behind their disclaimer.
Seven problems with a Carfax (or any Vehicle History report):
First, if the vehicle has been rebuilt (or salvaged) Carfax can only report this if the States’ DMV changed the vehicle’s title to “salvage, rebuilt, reconstructed, etc…” However, there are some states that do not indicate remarks on their titles such as “savage, rebuilt, true miles unknown, thief recovery, etc…” Also, if the insurance company does not notify the state that they have totaled a vehicle, the DMV will not change the title to ‘salvage, rebuilt, etc…” For example, a few years ago, State Farm was sued for not reporting over 30,000 totaled vehicles to the States’ DMV. Since the titles were never changed to salvage, Carfax shows these vehicles to have "clean" titles. These totaled vehicles were sold to salvage yards, patched together, and re-sold to the public with the original titles and a "clean" Carfax report. It is not uncommon for a professional pre-purchase inspection to find accident and frame damage on a vehicle when the Carfax report shows “no reported Structural / Frame Damage" or "Accident / Damage".
Second, there is no database for body & frame shops to report accident damage and repairs, and not all insurance companies disclose or share their accident information. Carfax readily admits that there are thousands of accidents, each day, which will never show up on a Carfax report. Even if Carfax reports an accident, it cannot tell you the extent of the accident damage, or the quality of any repairs. Only a professional inspection by a Frame Specialist can give you that information.
Third, used car dealers know the limitations of a Carfax report. Some dealers knowingly buy vehicles with frame and accident damaged which have a "clean" Carfax report. They sell these damaged vehicles to unsuspecting buyers showing them the “clean” Carfax before they purchase. Bad vehicles are purchased every day because the seller/salesperson talked the buyer out of a professional inspection by showing a "clean" report. A vehicle history report cannot tell the buyer the current condition of the vehicle.
Forth, Carfax does not have any type of reporting mechanism with the tens of thousands independent repair facilities across the United States. Most of the Carfax reports have little or no repair information compared to the millions of automotive repairs performed each day. Even if Carfax reports a repair, it cannot tell you if the problem was fixed correctly or if there are additional mechanical/electrical problems with the vehicle.
Fifth, some States require an annual safety and/or emission testing. A safety or emission test is very limited in its testing and like a repair history, it cannot tell the buyer the current actual condition of all the vehicle’s components and systems.
Sixth, Carfax is a "History" report. There is a time lag between when a vehicle's title was changed to reflect a "negative" comment and when Carfax actually reports the title's new information. This time lag can allow a damaged vehicle to be re-sold before Carfax can report the negative information about the vehicle.
Seventh, search the web for complaints against Carfax. Many consumers have filed complaints and lawsuits that Carfax deceives their customers by concealing the limits of the information it collects. When confronted by irate customers, Carfax hides behind their disclaimer. (FYI, Carfax does not allow phoned in complaints).
The perception for a used car buyers is that Carfax offers comprehensive historical information about used vehicles, but the reality is, the information contained in a Carfax report is incomplete, limited, misleading, may not be current, and in some cases totally inaccurate. This difference between the used car buyers' perception, and reality, will cause them to make bad decisions based upon incomplete information provided by a Carfax report.
A used car buyer should also question the cost effectiveness of a vehicle history report. A Carfax report sells for $34-$45 vs. a professional pre-purchase inspection for around $150. Pay the $34-$45, and you still don't know the current condition of any mechanical or electrical system, you still don’t know for sure if the vehicle was in accident(s) or the quality of any previous accident damage, and you still don't know if the vehicle was abused or well maintained. Only a physical pre-purchase inspection by an ASE Master Technician (for all mechanical & electrical systems) and a Frame Specialist (for body and frame problems) can determine the true condition before you buy.
The ONLY way to determine the TRUE condition before purchase is to have the vehicle professionally inspected by an ASE Certified Master Technician for mechanical & electrical problems and Frame Specialist for previous accident damages.
Seven problems with a Carfax (or any Vehicle History report):
First, if the vehicle has been rebuilt (or salvaged) Carfax can only report this if the States’ DMV changed the vehicle’s title to “salvage, rebuilt, reconstructed, etc…” However, there are some states that do not indicate remarks on their titles such as “savage, rebuilt, true miles unknown, thief recovery, etc…” Also, if the insurance company does not notify the state that they have totaled a vehicle, the DMV will not change the title to ‘salvage, rebuilt, etc…” For example, a few years ago, State Farm was sued for not reporting over 30,000 totaled vehicles to the States’ DMV. Since the titles were never changed to salvage, Carfax shows these vehicles to have "clean" titles. These totaled vehicles were sold to salvage yards, patched together, and re-sold to the public with the original titles and a "clean" Carfax report. It is not uncommon for a professional pre-purchase inspection to find accident and frame damage on a vehicle when the Carfax report shows “no reported Structural / Frame Damage" or "Accident / Damage".
Second, there is no database for body & frame shops to report accident damage and repairs, and not all insurance companies disclose or share their accident information. Carfax readily admits that there are thousands of accidents, each day, which will never show up on a Carfax report. Even if Carfax reports an accident, it cannot tell you the extent of the accident damage, or the quality of any repairs. Only a professional inspection by a Frame Specialist can give you that information.
Third, used car dealers know the limitations of a Carfax report. Some dealers knowingly buy vehicles with frame and accident damaged which have a "clean" Carfax report. They sell these damaged vehicles to unsuspecting buyers showing them the “clean” Carfax before they purchase. Bad vehicles are purchased every day because the seller/salesperson talked the buyer out of a professional inspection by showing a "clean" report. A vehicle history report cannot tell the buyer the current condition of the vehicle.
Forth, Carfax does not have any type of reporting mechanism with the tens of thousands independent repair facilities across the United States. Most of the Carfax reports have little or no repair information compared to the millions of automotive repairs performed each day. Even if Carfax reports a repair, it cannot tell you if the problem was fixed correctly or if there are additional mechanical/electrical problems with the vehicle.
Fifth, some States require an annual safety and/or emission testing. A safety or emission test is very limited in its testing and like a repair history, it cannot tell the buyer the current actual condition of all the vehicle’s components and systems.
Sixth, Carfax is a "History" report. There is a time lag between when a vehicle's title was changed to reflect a "negative" comment and when Carfax actually reports the title's new information. This time lag can allow a damaged vehicle to be re-sold before Carfax can report the negative information about the vehicle.
Seventh, search the web for complaints against Carfax. Many consumers have filed complaints and lawsuits that Carfax deceives their customers by concealing the limits of the information it collects. When confronted by irate customers, Carfax hides behind their disclaimer. (FYI, Carfax does not allow phoned in complaints).
The perception for a used car buyers is that Carfax offers comprehensive historical information about used vehicles, but the reality is, the information contained in a Carfax report is incomplete, limited, misleading, may not be current, and in some cases totally inaccurate. This difference between the used car buyers' perception, and reality, will cause them to make bad decisions based upon incomplete information provided by a Carfax report.
A used car buyer should also question the cost effectiveness of a vehicle history report. A Carfax report sells for $34-$45 vs. a professional pre-purchase inspection for around $150. Pay the $34-$45, and you still don't know the current condition of any mechanical or electrical system, you still don’t know for sure if the vehicle was in accident(s) or the quality of any previous accident damage, and you still don't know if the vehicle was abused or well maintained. Only a physical pre-purchase inspection by an ASE Master Technician (for all mechanical & electrical systems) and a Frame Specialist (for body and frame problems) can determine the true condition before you buy.
The ONLY way to determine the TRUE condition before purchase is to have the vehicle professionally inspected by an ASE Certified Master Technician for mechanical & electrical problems and Frame Specialist for previous accident damages.
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