go4gr8

Good to know, Dave!

A new car it shall be!

Achilles

Great information. Thanks so much. I'm looking to lease a vehicle but it's tricky on my side in that I still owe on my current vehicle and I'm upside down on it due to college (had to travel to class everyday, both ways). Now that I've graduated, I'm thinking about leasing a G37 but I'm new to leasing. Trying to figure out the pros and cons. I might be visiting Clear Lake Infiniti in Houston soon.

Any advice?

go4gr8

Bump because people need to see this.

ajb723

useful info. I have a couple of questions- do you add the destination charge to the MSRP? Are the acquisition fee, doc fee, and reg. fees added to the negotiated purchase price?

Mike

iTrader: (1)

Infiniti does not do security deposits.

espperre

I'm going to assume you're Mike at Riverside Infiniti?

If so, I don't know what your role there is, but I am quite frankly stunned, shocked and appalled by the number of times I've heard this from "Finance" specialists at Infiniti dealerships.

I can't tell you the number of times I've had to EXPLAIN to Finance Managers, yes MANAGERS!, at Infiniti dealerships WHAT an MSD is and HOW it works, only to hear them reply to me, with supreme confidence no less, with something like "... I've been in the business for 10 years, and I've never heard of no MSD and I don't even care to know what it is because Infiniti doesn't do it..." Well, that's all the signal I need to take my business elsewhere.

If you think I'm prone to hyperbole, get on the phone and just randomly pick some Infiniti dealerships around this country and speak to a "Finance Manager". I'm willing to bet that most of them are clueless as to what it is, let alone whether Infiniti offers it. They'll tell you, BOLDLY no less, that Infiniti does not offer it.

Now we have problem here don't we: Either Infiniti is not teaching their people properly, or their people are not paying attention.

YES!! INFINITI DOES DO MSDs!!!

And it's maxed at factor of 9.

And it reduces your MF by .0001 for each factor.

And you can still do it on most subvented MFs!!!!!!

Now I need to go meditate, or something ...

Mike

iTrader: (1)

Yes, I'm the same person you think I am.

IFS/NMAC no longer does MSD or any SDs at all as of last month. They now have tiered leasing instead of a required security deposit or +.00015MF for tier2+ leases. (each SD was a .00015 reduction on the MF.)

If you don't believe me, come on down and I'll show you my lease book.

Yes, I do know what a MSD lease is. We did them all the time here (along with the additional paperwork involved, which is why a lot of dealerships ignore them completely).

Unfortunately, MSD leases no longer exist with IFS.

espperre

1) "Infiniti NO LONGER offers MSDs as of last month" is VASTLY different from "Infiniti does not offer MSDs", which is what I've repeatedly heard from many, many, MANY Finance Managers no less, over the course of the past several months. Most of them have no clue what it is, and have NEVER HAD a clue what it EVER was let alone whether it was something that is or isn't being discontinued. Call around dealerships randomly and speak to a Finance person if you don't believe me.

2) I've spoken to two dealership during this past month and not only do BOTH happen to know what MSDs are (which is why I'm even talking to them), but BOTH are following through on ALL of our conversation as if MSDs are NOT being discontinued.

So which is it: Are they just taking my $4500 MSD and reducing my MF just for the heck of it? Are you misinformed? Are THEY misinformed? Can't be both can it. In fact, one of them was telling me how he JUST GOT OFF the phone with IFS regarding an MSD he just completed ... and that was last week!!

J.Oh

iTrader: (1)

im pretty sure i got bent over when i was doing my lease

Mike

iTrader: (1)

I'm in the western region. Different regions have different policies, but IFS is nationwide, and unless there is a bulletin I missed, there are no more security deposits.

That is the whole point of tiered leases; we can now lease to customers with (far) less than perfect credit. Previously, a security deposit was taken instead. Now it's tiered.

Believe what you want, but I know that as far as leases in California are concerned, the knowledge I have is accurate.

Trinidaddy

iTrader: (1)

Just wanted to say that the dealerships in Ohio are doing MSD's, I do remember the Finance Mgr at Inf of Cincinnati saying that it is being done differently than before so I don't know if that had anything to do with it...

espperre

First, you said "Infiniti does not do security deposits."

Then, you said "IFS/NMAC no longer does MSD or any SDs at all as of last month."

Then you said "I'm in the western region. Different regions have different policies ...."

You see a pattern there? Do you see how your first comment is VASTLY different from your second comment, which in turn is VASTLY different from your third comment, which is nothing like your first comment at all? Why not say that to begin with?

Look, for all I know you're a genius and you know your job inside out. Grand. For all I knew, when you made that first post you were "Mike the Janitor" at Riverside Infiniti. I simply addressed what you first said as being an inaccurate and common representation of several people at several Infiniti dealerships who claim to be finance specialists, and even managers. After you "qualified" the first comment, I then pointed the inaccuray in your second comment. Now I don't live in the West Coast, so I can't really speak to your third "qualification".

Inaccurate statements like the ones you made are rampant in your brand. I've talked with Lexus, BMW and Mercedes and I've never experienced such "tiered" levels of misinformation as I have with Infiniti. Now do these people just have no clue what they're talking about, or do they just PRETEND to just have no clue because of "...additional paperwork involved, which is why a lot of dealerships ignore them completely...". Paperwork? Are you F'ING kidding me? They're RIPPING me off of THOUSANDS of dollars by sweeping MSDs under the carpet because of a little paperwork?! Doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzies about the brand as a whole either way if that's even remotely the case.

The other thing I've noticed in your replies is that you seem to talk as if MSD's and SD's are conceptually just one in the same. Kinda like this one "Finance Manager" I was speaking to the other day that kept insisting to me that SDs are not required and that I didn't have to do them. I had to keep explaining to him, that I was talking about MSDs and that I WANT to do them - 9 times over! The guy just had no clue why I would want to put a deposit on a lease if they didn't require me to. I just gave up and called another dealer.

Now, I going to assume that you DO understand that MSDs benefit the customer in a VASTLY different way than SDs do? MSDs are investments that shave off several points off the MF, REDUCE the overall APR of the loan therby REDUCING my interest paid, and REDUCE my total cost via potentially very high rates of returns, sometimes up in the 18%-20% range - and that's GUARANTEED money. As far as I'm concerned, in this market, there is no better place for my cash to live for a couple years. That is why as a lessee you want MSDs. You have to SEEK MSDs and apparently with Infiniti, fight to get MSDs. That's a whole different concept than traditional SDs.

Furthermore, they are even more different than tiered MFs, which are loaded with reserves and rewards to YOU, the delear, which is why I don't get why you seem to mix those all in the same breath.

For example, MFs can be tiered something like this:
-0.00190 + 0% Resesves
-0.00210 + 1% Reserves
-0.00240 + 2% Reserves
-0.00270 + 3% Reserves

The 0 tier MF is the "buy" rate, or base rate, or the subvented rate and it is the ONLY rate I'm interested in. If I can't get that rate, then hammer it down further with MSDs, then I'm not interested in doing business with you. As far I'm concerned, this sort of tiered, incentivized MF structure has nothing to do with my 18-20% "investment" that is the MSD.

Now you as a dealership are most interested in the 3 Tier rate because you get a kickback from the bank - either 3% of the adjusted cap, or some tiered percentage of the difference between the total finance charges. I don't care if you have these leases so you can write loans to subprime lessees, but the fact is you have an incentive to write that rate. If Infiniti ever suggests to me, even hints to me, that they've done away with MSDs because of tiered MFs, I guarantee you they will see my business go to BMW or Lexus, because as far as I'm concerned that just another of saying ".. we think you're stupid."

I'll be speaking with IFS this week to find out the real story - for the West Coast market or any other market - and post my findings here. Now I happen to be in the East Coast and both of my current conversations with the two delearships who know what they're talking about both involve MSDs. I wouldn't even be talking to them if MSDs weren't in the conversation. As late as two days ago, neither one mentioned about any MSD discontinuation "...as of last month..." So as long as they don't, things should be good to go. I'll pull the plug lightning fast if they or IFS even hints at changing their tune on that. But like I said, I'll talk to IFS and get to the bottom of this.

Now as a customer and a shareholder, my only suggestion to you, as a representative of a company with an image to uphold and shareholders to answer to, is to make accurate statements from the get-go, or not make them at all.

Mike

iTrader: (1)

You know more than I do. I don't know anything.

Yes, I do see a pattern here.

The first statement is accurate; Infiniti does not do security deposits. (this is the present)

The second statement is a clarification and supplantation of the first, I am stating that yes, IFS did do MSD leases (this is the past), but no longer does (again, returning to the present), reinforcing the first statement. Infiniti does not do security deposits. The first statement remains accurate.

The third statement is further reinforcement for the first and second; what I say may not apply to you; I am in the western region. I am defining (narrowing) the scope of my statements, strengthening my arguement. Yes, I didn't previously define the scope of my statement, and that is my fault.

Please, pay careful attention to tense and scope of each statement I make.

Yes, those three statements are VASTLY different from each other, but they add to each other, not conflict.


To further clarify, IFS does not do SINGLE Security Deposits.

MSD leases do still exist, and are offered with a minimum of 2 SDs with a max of 9 SDs.

Yes, each SD reduces MF by 0.0001.

To do a MSD lease, monthly payment CANNOT exceed 750/mo. Cap reduction must be paid if the payment is too high.

go4gr8

FYI..

This was not how it went in my case. I have great credit but was not accepted even though I make more than enough to pay for the monthly lease payment. Therefore, the above statement is too general and inaccurate.

Mike

iTrader: (1)

Credit score is only one of the guidlines that IFS looks at. Did they tell you why your application was denied? (17.5% of your income is typically what they allow for your car payment; they also look at your other current debt obligations, etc... way way too many factors to list here.)

As far as the generalized statement, the new tiered leases allow us to lease to a greater number of people, who previously would not have been able to lease.