The "4 door Z" build (4DRZ)- 13 G37S 6spd sedan
10-22-2020, 05:39 PM
#1577
As I mentioned, the super-super lightweight FW made it hard for the RX7 to hold idle after decel - with no mass, the revs just dropped, and the old computers those things run couldn't adjust idle air fast enough to catch it. So, you had to pay extra attention when not driving assertively. I note that ACT, for example, only makes a street-lightweight version for the VQ motor - there must be a reason. All the 370 heavily modded guys would be running those or the little flywheels for the small racing clutch packs.
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4DRZ (10-26-2020)
10-23-2020, 09:04 AM
#1578
Moderador
I don't believe the new tune would change the redline of the engine, nor would I really want it to since all of the internal parts of the block stay the same.
I talked to Spencer yesterday and he said one thing to be careful of is that depending on the casting from Nissan of the head, there is a relatively good chance that the head will need to be milled/reshaped just to make the cams fit. This could be a much bigger project than I thought. Still waiting to hear back from my mechanic about this process to see just how involved this will be, especially if we need to do work on the heads as well- might be a cost/time tipping point for me.
I talked to Spencer yesterday and he said one thing to be careful of is that depending on the casting from Nissan of the head, there is a relatively good chance that the head will need to be milled/reshaped just to make the cams fit. This could be a much bigger project than I thought. Still waiting to hear back from my mechanic about this process to see just how involved this will be, especially if we need to do work on the heads as well- might be a cost/time tipping point for me.
Having plenty of Top Ends available. I would try finding a spare head to test these on prior to that.
I'm interested in what he meant about head castings being different.
10-23-2020, 11:55 AM
#1579
Registered Member
I don't believe the new tune would change the redline of the engine, nor would I really want it to since all of the internal parts of the block stay the same.
I talked to Spencer yesterday and he said one thing to be careful of is that depending on the casting from Nissan of the head, there is a relatively good chance that the head will need to be milled/reshaped just to make the cams fit. This could be a much bigger project than I thought. Still waiting to hear back from my mechanic about this process to see just how involved this will be, especially if we need to do work on the heads as well- might be a cost/time tipping point for me.
I talked to Spencer yesterday and he said one thing to be careful of is that depending on the casting from Nissan of the head, there is a relatively good chance that the head will need to be milled/reshaped just to make the cams fit. This could be a much bigger project than I thought. Still waiting to hear back from my mechanic about this process to see just how involved this will be, especially if we need to do work on the heads as well- might be a cost/time tipping point for me.
Like I mentioned before, it may be a good time to do the gallery gasket. ~$60 of parts and another problem off your chest!
What do you mean on depending on the casting of the heads? What changed from MY to MY? In 2015 the exhaust manifolds changed, additional studs were added, and I think somewhere around that time the exhaust valves changed. However, other than the additional studs in the heads, I don't think the casting is any different.
10-26-2020, 04:02 PM
#1580
Good points guys. Thanks for all of the advice. Spencer at Z1 was talking about the tight clearances in the heads that they install the C2 Jim Wolf cams into. He said about half of them need to be machined just a bit to have the right tolerances for the C2 cams. Looking at their site again it looks like that might just be for 2014+. I called Z1 to get some clarifications from Sam, but he did not have too many answers and recommended calling JWT. I called JWT and the techs are at lunch so I will try them later.
My technician at work was supposed to get back to me last week about these cams and what would be involved, but never did. I think he felt bad because he had all of the information for me rather quickly today. So it sounds like he cannot get the tool that we need so their plan would be to get the head off and send them out to a machine shop for 2 weeks to do the work. While it is here we would replace the head gaskets and take a look at the timing chain, guides, various other gaskets, etc. to see if anything else needs attention. I would also need to figure out a rental car for 2 weeks.
I am still a bit torn on this project because the labor alone costs at least twice as much as the parts and the parts are not cheap. Part of me thinks it would be a cool project and maybe it would get me to keep the car a bit longer. The other part of me thinks this is good money that I will never get back and would be better spent on the next car. Decisions, decisions....
My technician at work was supposed to get back to me last week about these cams and what would be involved, but never did. I think he felt bad because he had all of the information for me rather quickly today. So it sounds like he cannot get the tool that we need so their plan would be to get the head off and send them out to a machine shop for 2 weeks to do the work. While it is here we would replace the head gaskets and take a look at the timing chain, guides, various other gaskets, etc. to see if anything else needs attention. I would also need to figure out a rental car for 2 weeks.
I am still a bit torn on this project because the labor alone costs at least twice as much as the parts and the parts are not cheap. Part of me thinks it would be a cool project and maybe it would get me to keep the car a bit longer. The other part of me thinks this is good money that I will never get back and would be better spent on the next car. Decisions, decisions....
10-26-2020, 09:07 PM
#1581
Administrator
iTrader: (9)
Or drop it all on a set of forged, LW, 2-piece wheels.
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4DRZ (10-27-2020)
10-27-2020, 09:57 AM
#1582
Moderador
Pass on the cams honestly. The amount of work you'll need to put in VS the end result wont be worth it.
Why? look at the amount of work you're already putting in the car. That same amount of work/money could go into better methods of obtaining power.
If $4k is the realistic budget, you need to ask yourself what will truly make you happy. Dont get me wrong you will get a benefit from these however it will be mainly mid-range due to better duration and bigger exhaust profiles. With VVEL the eccentric cam already provides enough lift on command however because the VHR doesnt have an independent exhaust variable phaser it ends up being the "bottle neck" to a certain extent. This is common in the HR groups who swap to VHR blocks, they end up with a Vq37 HR with the ability to control durations of both cams independently, they benefit from cams due to the added lift that the VHR system provides to the 37 from factory. All in all the numbers are not all that impressive if you compare to what VHRs are already making.
I have not looked at your parts list recently but at $4k you could keep saving and go forced induction, VHRs have proved to provide a reliable 500whp from off shelf kits. Dont fear nitrous either.
I feel like you you're already realizing the realistic expectation from the cams so unpopular opinion, going cammed will be like a set of intakes.
Why? look at the amount of work you're already putting in the car. That same amount of work/money could go into better methods of obtaining power.
If $4k is the realistic budget, you need to ask yourself what will truly make you happy. Dont get me wrong you will get a benefit from these however it will be mainly mid-range due to better duration and bigger exhaust profiles. With VVEL the eccentric cam already provides enough lift on command however because the VHR doesnt have an independent exhaust variable phaser it ends up being the "bottle neck" to a certain extent. This is common in the HR groups who swap to VHR blocks, they end up with a Vq37 HR with the ability to control durations of both cams independently, they benefit from cams due to the added lift that the VHR system provides to the 37 from factory. All in all the numbers are not all that impressive if you compare to what VHRs are already making.
I have not looked at your parts list recently but at $4k you could keep saving and go forced induction, VHRs have proved to provide a reliable 500whp from off shelf kits. Dont fear nitrous either.
I feel like you you're already realizing the realistic expectation from the cams so unpopular opinion, going cammed will be like a set of intakes.
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4DRZ (10-27-2020)
10-27-2020, 12:08 PM
#1583
Pass on the cams honestly. The amount of work you'll need to put in VS the end result wont be worth it.
Why? look at the amount of work you're already putting in the car. That same amount of work/money could go into better methods of obtaining power.
If $4k is the realistic budget, you need to ask yourself what will truly make you happy. Dont get me wrong you will get a benefit from these however it will be mainly mid-range due to better duration and bigger exhaust profiles. With VVEL the eccentric cam already provides enough lift on command however because the VHR doesnt have an independent exhaust variable phaser it ends up being the "bottle neck" to a certain extent. This is common in the HR groups who swap to VHR blocks, they end up with a Vq37 HR with the ability to control durations of both cams independently, they benefit from cams due to the added lift that the VHR system provides to the 37 from factory. All in all the numbers are not all that impressive if you compare to what VHRs are already making.
I have not looked at your parts list recently but at $4k you could keep saving and go forced induction, VHRs have proved to provide a reliable 500whp from off shelf kits. Dont fear nitrous either.
I feel like you you're already realizing the realistic expectation from the cams so unpopular opinion, going cammed will be like a set of intakes.
Why? look at the amount of work you're already putting in the car. That same amount of work/money could go into better methods of obtaining power.
If $4k is the realistic budget, you need to ask yourself what will truly make you happy. Dont get me wrong you will get a benefit from these however it will be mainly mid-range due to better duration and bigger exhaust profiles. With VVEL the eccentric cam already provides enough lift on command however because the VHR doesnt have an independent exhaust variable phaser it ends up being the "bottle neck" to a certain extent. This is common in the HR groups who swap to VHR blocks, they end up with a Vq37 HR with the ability to control durations of both cams independently, they benefit from cams due to the added lift that the VHR system provides to the 37 from factory. All in all the numbers are not all that impressive if you compare to what VHRs are already making.
I have not looked at your parts list recently but at $4k you could keep saving and go forced induction, VHRs have proved to provide a reliable 500whp from off shelf kits. Dont fear nitrous either.
I feel like you you're already realizing the realistic expectation from the cams so unpopular opinion, going cammed will be like a set of intakes.
I also talked to Jon, the in-house tuner at Z1, this morning again about these cams. He was suggesting replacing the oil pump gears so that he could increase the redline to 8,400 rpm to see even better gains. He also mentioned having the heads ported, but said he had not seen many people do that. I talked to our machine shop and they said the gains of porting would be so minimal that they could not advise doing it. My other thought was that I do not feel comfortable raising the redline that high with stock internals, valves, etc.
So as a result, this thread will not be quite as interesting as I planned in the next few months, but I will see if there is anything interesting to report about the new valve cover gaskets and if we have any luck resurfacing my slotted front rotors or if I just need to get replacement rounds.
10-27-2020, 01:54 PM
#1584
Really great stuff reading through your thread, and extremely helpful. Compliments on the craftsmanship.
How has the Stillen brake duct kit been treating you? I'm considering installing some brake ducts also, so if you have any pointers or recommendations for the install I'm all ears. Also I noticed Z1 has the front kit listed with options for the Stillen or OEM fascia (for the 370z) - which one did you need to use for the G's fascia? I have a 13' coupe with the sport bumper but I'm guessing it's close enough to the G sedan's foglight location from looking at a few.
How has the Stillen brake duct kit been treating you? I'm considering installing some brake ducts also, so if you have any pointers or recommendations for the install I'm all ears. Also I noticed Z1 has the front kit listed with options for the Stillen or OEM fascia (for the 370z) - which one did you need to use for the G's fascia? I have a 13' coupe with the sport bumper but I'm guessing it's close enough to the G sedan's foglight location from looking at a few.
10-27-2020, 02:35 PM
#1585
Really great stuff reading through your thread, and extremely helpful. Compliments on the craftsmanship.
How has the Stillen brake duct kit been treating you? I'm considering installing some brake ducts also, so if you have any pointers or recommendations for the install I'm all ears. Also I noticed Z1 has the front kit listed with options for the Stillen or OEM fascia (for the 370z) - which one did you need to use for the G's fascia? I have a 13' coupe with the sport bumper but I'm guessing it's close enough to the G sedan's foglight location from looking at a few.
How has the Stillen brake duct kit been treating you? I'm considering installing some brake ducts also, so if you have any pointers or recommendations for the install I'm all ears. Also I noticed Z1 has the front kit listed with options for the Stillen or OEM fascia (for the 370z) - which one did you need to use for the G's fascia? I have a 13' coupe with the sport bumper but I'm guessing it's close enough to the G sedan's foglight location from looking at a few.
I remember that whatever I had to break loose to attach the mounting brackets behind the brakes was a bit of a pain in my garage to do, but it broke loose easily in the shop with some air tools. Then it just boiled down to turning the wheels to full lock in both directions a few times to ensure proper clearance for the tubing before I secured it with zip ties. Make sure you leave the zip ties loose initially so you can make sure to give yourself enough slack for the wheels to turn.
It seemed like the brake ducts helped a bit on track, but I probably noticed more difference with different pad compounds and braking technique. Don't get me wrong, our cars can use all the help they can get on track to keep the brakes cool. The car is a bit heavy and the brakes are a touch small for regular track use, but they do work. If you have not already picked up some high temp brake fluid, track pads, and maybe some stainless brake lines, you probably should. Hope that helps.
10-27-2020, 02:43 PM
#1586
Administrator
iTrader: (9)
Hey Goldbug, note that the OP's front discs purportedly have a better design for air cooling than the OEM rotors. Something that means nada on the street, but anyway... there it is.
10-27-2020, 04:12 PM
#1588
Thanks! The Stillen kit has been solid. They used the most durable material for the tubing that I have seen yet (and I got creative with previous home-made kits on other cars). I finally got a tear in the tubing last year, but probably due to all the snow we get in the winter. It was easy to patch with duct tape. I forget the specific kit I got, but I did not need any attachments for the bumper.
I remember that whatever I had to break loose to attach the mounting brackets behind the brakes was a bit of a pain in my garage to do, but it broke loose easily in the shop with some air tools. Then it just boiled down to turning the wheels to full lock in both directions a few times to ensure proper clearance for the tubing before I secured it with zip ties. Make sure you leave the zip ties loose initially so you can make sure to give yourself enough slack for the wheels to turn.
It seemed like the brake ducts helped a bit on track, but I probably noticed more difference with different pad compounds and braking technique. Don't get me wrong, our cars can use all the help they can get on track to keep the brakes cool. The car is a bit heavy and the brakes are a touch small for regular track use, but they do work. If you have not already picked up some high temp brake fluid, track pads, and maybe some stainless brake lines, you probably should. Hope that helps.
I remember that whatever I had to break loose to attach the mounting brackets behind the brakes was a bit of a pain in my garage to do, but it broke loose easily in the shop with some air tools. Then it just boiled down to turning the wheels to full lock in both directions a few times to ensure proper clearance for the tubing before I secured it with zip ties. Make sure you leave the zip ties loose initially so you can make sure to give yourself enough slack for the wheels to turn.
It seemed like the brake ducts helped a bit on track, but I probably noticed more difference with different pad compounds and braking technique. Don't get me wrong, our cars can use all the help they can get on track to keep the brakes cool. The car is a bit heavy and the brakes are a touch small for regular track use, but they do work. If you have not already picked up some high temp brake fluid, track pads, and maybe some stainless brake lines, you probably should. Hope that helps.
I'm already running Z1 1pc slotted rotors, Z1 stainless steel brake lines, Hawk performance ceramic pads (for the street) and Motul RBF600 fluid which has made an insane improvement, but not sure if it's enough prep for the track still. I was considering the Z1 brake mc brace but think I'll hold off on that indefinitely now, and am also planning on upgrading to the Z1 2 pc sprinkle-slotted rotors for all 4 corners eventually. Might stick to 1 pc slotted rotors for track events to save on costs but we will see- definitely getting a couple dedicated sets of track pads regardless, not running the Hawk performance ceramics on a track, lol.
I was also thinking about trying to route some air from the fog light ducts towards the radiator (eventually intercooler and oil cooler) but not sure if it would work/benefit more than the brake ducts instead. Cooling for the turbo I'm planning is another story though.
Are you referring to the drilled rotors or the directional internal cooling vanes the StopTech/Z1 2 pc rotors have? I've thought about that also...and my biggest complaint about the Z1 1pc rotors is that they have non-directional internal vanes. StopTech, DBA, Z1 (their 2 piece rotors), RacingBrake and most nicer rotors all have directional vanes, and it definitely helps and is one of the reasons I'll eventually upgrade them. At the time, I only went with the Z1 1 pc kit because I just needed a quick, cheap replacement since it was a surprise visit to the shop. 2 pc soon...
10-27-2020, 04:13 PM
#1589
Moderador
https://www.myg37.com/forums/build-t...ml#post4284045
Enter the dark side. Bring some nitrous, I've been following Jdogs for a while along with some other successful nitrous owners in FB groups.
Anything from this point on forward will require extensive work that just doesn't deliver the time/money.
Even at a 50shot you'll find the love you were looking for.
Enter the dark side. Bring some nitrous, I've been following Jdogs for a while along with some other successful nitrous owners in FB groups.
Anything from this point on forward will require extensive work that just doesn't deliver the time/money.
Even at a 50shot you'll find the love you were looking for.
10-27-2020, 06:23 PM
#1590
I was considering the Z1 brake mc brace but think I'll hold off on that indefinitely now, and am also planning on upgrading to the Z1 2 pc sprinkle-slotted rotors for all 4 corners eventually. Might stick to 1 pc slotted rotors for track events to save on costs but we will see- definitely getting a couple dedicated sets of track pads regardless, not running the Hawk performance ceramics on a track, lol.
I was also thinking about trying to route some air from the fog light ducts towards the radiator (eventually intercooler and oil cooler) but not sure if it would work/benefit more than the brake ducts instead. Cooling for the turbo I'm planning is another story though.
Are you referring to the drilled rotors or the directional internal cooling vanes the StopTech/Z1 2 pc rotors have? I've thought about that also...and my biggest complaint about the Z1 1pc rotors is that they have non-directional internal vanes. StopTech, DBA, Z1 (their 2 piece rotors), RacingBrake and most nicer rotors all have directional vanes, and it definitely helps and is one of the reasons I'll eventually upgrade them. At the time, I only went with the Z1 1 pc kit because I just needed a quick, cheap replacement since it was a surprise visit to the shop. 2 pc soon...
I was also thinking about trying to route some air from the fog light ducts towards the radiator (eventually intercooler and oil cooler) but not sure if it would work/benefit more than the brake ducts instead. Cooling for the turbo I'm planning is another story though.
Are you referring to the drilled rotors or the directional internal cooling vanes the StopTech/Z1 2 pc rotors have? I've thought about that also...and my biggest complaint about the Z1 1pc rotors is that they have non-directional internal vanes. StopTech, DBA, Z1 (their 2 piece rotors), RacingBrake and most nicer rotors all have directional vanes, and it definitely helps and is one of the reasons I'll eventually upgrade them. At the time, I only went with the Z1 1 pc kit because I just needed a quick, cheap replacement since it was a surprise visit to the shop. 2 pc soon...
Don't worry about sending air to your radiator. It gets plenty of air. Direct that air to your brakes and get an oil cooler or you will overheat way too fast on track.
https://www.myg37.com/forums/build-t...ml#post4284045
Enter the dark side. Bring some nitrous, I've been following Jdogs for a while along with some other successful nitrous owners in FB groups.
Anything from this point on forward will require extensive work that just doesn't deliver the time/money.
Even at a 50shot you'll find the love you were looking for.
Enter the dark side. Bring some nitrous, I've been following Jdogs for a while along with some other successful nitrous owners in FB groups.
Anything from this point on forward will require extensive work that just doesn't deliver the time/money.
Even at a 50shot you'll find the love you were looking for.
I joined the dark side on my first build about 20 years ago by adding nitrous. But that was on a built motor and transmission. It was entertaining for short drag races, but I would probably empty a tank about half way through the first lap at Road America if I used it now. I think I am good with where this car is at, especially since I am not tracking it anymore. The car is great and so satisfying to drive. It will definitely tide me over until I find a suitable replacement. Oddly enough, I am having a tough time finding a worthy replacement because the feedback, feel, steering, handling, sound, braking, performance, etc, etc of this car is so good where it is at right now. No complaints.
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goldbug (10-29-2020)