Brake Rotors Don't Warp
12-23-2010, 10:24 PM
#16
MSCA, I did read first three articles you posted. I guess You did not understand the crucial part from StopTech article.
All or three articles I have read agrees on that Brake rotors does not warp. Or common myth a loop hole shape bending. And all first three are telling us about how to prevent those.
Does an average member who will never in his entire life needs to know what goes on a molecular level of a rotor "Myth Warps". Does an average member needs to know how to prevent them? Yes. Instead of saying brakes don't warp. Tell members they need to read those articles to learn how not to warp their rotors. Point them into right direction. Don't miss lead them.
NO, however does a member who warped his rotor needs to know why it happens. YES.
There are some crazy folks under rain passes splashing water out on the street just for fun of it. You claim you own an SUV, vast majority of crazy folks drive splashing water on an SUV. Are you one of them? Does that person needs know it is bad for his rotor YES. Well should he get slotted rotors to splash water without damaging his rotors? NO. It is stupid.
We do track our G and now treat rotors just as if they are pads. They are replacement parts. But when it happens to us it is no fun. There are some street driven G's that reports vibration, as early as 10K. Is it better for him to:
A. Get his rotor resurfaced, than go back after 5K miles for another.
B. Change to more expensive OEM Rotors.
C. Buy less expensive after market rotors that better suits his/her driving style, weather, environment etc.
Which one do you pick MSCA. Or is it Micro Soft Central America.
Motorsports is team sport. Engineers do listen to their driver, research and comes up with solutions. If you have repaired hundreds of cars in your entire life. Without listening to your customers (drivers). Without knowledge or proper research.
YOU AINT TOUCHING MY G.
All or three articles I have read agrees on that Brake rotors does not warp. Or common myth a loop hole shape bending. And all first three are telling us about how to prevent those.
Does an average member who will never in his entire life needs to know what goes on a molecular level of a rotor "Myth Warps". Does an average member needs to know how to prevent them? Yes. Instead of saying brakes don't warp. Tell members they need to read those articles to learn how not to warp their rotors. Point them into right direction. Don't miss lead them.
NO, however does a member who warped his rotor needs to know why it happens. YES.
There are some crazy folks under rain passes splashing water out on the street just for fun of it. You claim you own an SUV, vast majority of crazy folks drive splashing water on an SUV. Are you one of them? Does that person needs know it is bad for his rotor YES. Well should he get slotted rotors to splash water without damaging his rotors? NO. It is stupid.
We do track our G and now treat rotors just as if they are pads. They are replacement parts. But when it happens to us it is no fun. There are some street driven G's that reports vibration, as early as 10K. Is it better for him to:
A. Get his rotor resurfaced, than go back after 5K miles for another.
B. Change to more expensive OEM Rotors.
C. Buy less expensive after market rotors that better suits his/her driving style, weather, environment etc.
Which one do you pick MSCA. Or is it Micro Soft Central America.
Motorsports is team sport. Engineers do listen to their driver, research and comes up with solutions. If you have repaired hundreds of cars in your entire life. Without listening to your customers (drivers). Without knowledge or proper research.
YOU AINT TOUCHING MY G.
12-23-2010, 10:40 PM
#17
Increased mass allows for more heat absorbtion, while increased surface area allows for more heat dissipation.
You quote stoptech articles from their website. I am on a first name basis with the owner. We both instruct with STUSA.
This exact fact is why you don't get the cheesegrater effect with slotted and drilled rotors. Rotors are typically softer and less abrasive. Hardness has to do with scratch resistance (in laymen terms), while abrasion has to do with surface angles of the involved crystals. They're directly related, but not the same.
Not sure why you'd mess up pre-existing bedding by swapping just pads though. The proper method is to use a lathe, which I'm sure you have access to.
What M3 do you track? What class do you compete in? Are you on bimmerforums? You should come out to the bimmerforums vs THQ event. The bimmerboys think they're fast enough to take us on our local tracks.
12-23-2010, 10:58 PM
#18
They "wobble" (which is really an incorrect term, BTW) due to uneven pad deposits on the rotors. You can measure the runout with a dial indicator. Most people incorrectly think that cutting the rotors is the only way to correct OOS runout. Yes, cutting will fix it, but so will scrubbing off the pad deposits. That fact proves that the metal isn't warped. If it were, then scrubbing wouldn't do anything to help.
This was BEFORE CERAMIC pads!!!
Organic, metallic, and semi metallic left NO deposit.
A pedal pulsation MIGHT be a result of ceramic deposits, steering wheel shake was a WARPED rotor.
Thats all I have to say here.
Feel free to have the last word and spread ignorance.
.
12-24-2010, 02:22 AM
#19
LOL, come on now Mike....even you can't believe the BS you're trying to sell us. Drilling holes in the surface of a rotor in now way increases its surface area. There is LESS surface area after you REMOVE material from the surface of the rotor. This is common sense. Let me break it down fo you retard style-- Picture a brake pad clamping down tightly on a rotor. If you were to measure the contact area and then you were to drill holes in the rotor and measure again, clearly the second time you measured you'd have less surface area, not more.
I agreed that swept area decreases. I also stated that the decreased swept area is negligible; the increased surface area from drilling/slotting is not. Clearly, cooling is improved, and the ability to brake at full ABS is retained.
Activated charcoal comes to mind when I think surface area....
Simply put, unless you're running endurance race brakes, or you do not drive at any competent level, you should have suffered severe brake wear with a E36 on track.
QFT.
Last edited by Mike; 12-24-2010 at 02:35 AM.
12-24-2010, 02:36 PM
#21
Registered User
Replaced my OEM rotors on my 08 back in 2008 with slotted, dimpled and zink coated OEM rotors done at BrakePerformance.com at 5K. I'm now at 28K on this daily driver that's driven rather agressively whenever a safe opportunity permits and is still on original OEM pads. No squeeks, pulsations or signs of noticible loss in brake performance along with a lot less rust build up then I've seen on standard OEM rotors. This is on an automatic which I definately do not baby or employ a driving style design to extend the life of the brake system.. rather the opposite I assure you. Considering the OEM pads have made it to this length without exhibiting a need for replacement it would seem slotted rotors have had little effect on pad wear and I'm more likely to believe they have contributed to less of a need for brake maintenance by helping to maintain even pad wear and reduced glazing. I have to say even if they did result in significant increase in pad wear I'd probably still do it just for the looks alone.
Last edited by RedG37SNC; 12-25-2010 at 12:34 PM.
12-24-2010, 02:39 PM
#22
I get criticized when I take Motul Engine Oil to my local dealer to change my engine oil. The service manager always tells me. "Oil are Oil, the are all the same".
This reminds me of a story where a western civilized person went to Africa and traded a chunk of diamond for a piece of candy.
No matter how good they are. You will never understand. Unless you have your own knowledge and experience.
This reminds me of a story where a western civilized person went to Africa and traded a chunk of diamond for a piece of candy.
No matter how good they are. You will never understand. Unless you have your own knowledge and experience.
Last edited by joo030879; 12-24-2010 at 02:44 PM.
12-24-2010, 04:36 PM
#23
Registered User
I'm not going to put my 2 cents in since i really hate agreeing with Mike. lol.
On another note, where do people go to get great prices on replacement rotors / pads?
On another note, where do people go to get great prices on replacement rotors / pads?
12-26-2010, 10:03 AM
#26
But again, drilling holes removes material, which lessens mass. How do you not understand that?
To remove uneven deposits? Cutting rotors is generally cheaper for the average joe than buying "race pads"
Simply put, unless you're running endurance race brakes, or you do not drive at any competent level, you should have suffered severe brake wear with a E36 on track.
QFT.[/QUOTE]
12-26-2010, 10:06 AM
#27
Has anyone ever seen a warped rotor? If so, I'd love to see a picture of it. Maybe even a video of the rotor on a lathe with a dial indicator attached to it.
Why is it that doesn't exist? Think about it? LOL
"In fact every case of "warped brake disc" that I have investigated, whether on a racing car or a street car, has turned out to be friction pad material transferred unevenly to the surface of the disc. This uneven deposition results in thickness variation (TV) or run-out due to hot spotting that occurred at elevated temperatures." - Carroll Smith, StopTech
'nuff said.
Why is it that doesn't exist? Think about it? LOL
"In fact every case of "warped brake disc" that I have investigated, whether on a racing car or a street car, has turned out to be friction pad material transferred unevenly to the surface of the disc. This uneven deposition results in thickness variation (TV) or run-out due to hot spotting that occurred at elevated temperatures." - Carroll Smith, StopTech
'nuff said.
12-26-2010, 10:19 AM
#28
12-26-2010, 01:23 PM
#29
Registered User
Yet you're still a cheerleader for drilled/slotted rotors...even though you don't use them yourself. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me. You tell us all how great they are, but refuse to use them yourself, instead choosing to crack your blank rotors "every 3 to 5 days" and then have to buy new ones. LOL
in any case both of you guys seem to take this whole thing to an entirely different level.
when it really comes down to it, a good driver and a good set of tires is all you really need.
12-28-2010, 03:35 PM
#30
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Even with a reduced swept area, I can 100% guarantee that you will till have enough braking power to activate ABS, even with full slicks. You may need a better pad.
On the street, a simple full ABS 70-0 stop will heat the OEM pads enough to fade them. The figure a bit higher for the factory option pads.
Cracking only happens when you hit extreme temperature changes.
Case in point: AMG's come with drilled rotors. Certainly, those AMGs are higher performance vehicles than our G37.... Hell, they offer a free AMG driving school to anyone who purchases an AMG.
No, they do not. A cheese grater has raised edges to dig into the cheese. A drilled/slotted rotor has the same surface height on either side of the given gap unless there is damage. If there is any actual "grating", you'd hear and feel it in the pedal, similar to an uneven pad deposit.
Why not? They look different and are CHEAPER than OEM replacements. Best of both worlds.
I beg to differ. Most people make the incorrect assumption, but I 100% guarantee that rotors will warp under the right conditions. I've probably cracked more rotors from warping (uneven cooling) than you've gone through in your lifetime.
TL;DR: If you don't like a sponsor's product, keep your negative comments to yourself or post it in another thread. Don't pollute their thread.
On the street, a simple full ABS 70-0 stop will heat the OEM pads enough to fade them. The figure a bit higher for the factory option pads.
Cracking only happens when you hit extreme temperature changes.
Case in point: AMG's come with drilled rotors. Certainly, those AMGs are higher performance vehicles than our G37.... Hell, they offer a free AMG driving school to anyone who purchases an AMG.
No, they do not. A cheese grater has raised edges to dig into the cheese. A drilled/slotted rotor has the same surface height on either side of the given gap unless there is damage. If there is any actual "grating", you'd hear and feel it in the pedal, similar to an uneven pad deposit.
Why not? They look different and are CHEAPER than OEM replacements. Best of both worlds.
I beg to differ. Most people make the incorrect assumption, but I 100% guarantee that rotors will warp under the right conditions. I've probably cracked more rotors from warping (uneven cooling) than you've gone through in your lifetime.
TL;DR: If you don't like a sponsor's product, keep your negative comments to yourself or post it in another thread. Don't pollute their thread.
good to see you're still keeping MSCA in check these days. has he posted a pic of his new g37 yet or is he too busy selling those floormats.