Teach me about coilovers like im a 5 year old
09-21-2013, 04:30 PM
#1
Teach me about coilovers like im a 5 year old
Im totally new to coilovers and suspensions in general.
I can do a brake jobs, fluid swaps, and most easy to medium DIY jobs.
My biggest strength is audio. I can wire an entire car in an afternoon and tune it well enough to make you cry when you listen to Eric Clapton.
Im purchasing BC BR coil overs. Agian im new to this so im sure there are coil overs that are worlds better.
My main goal is to lower my car to what I think is right.
As far as the install, I know you are basically removing bolts and then reinstalling the entire coil and shock / strut assembly. I have done shocks on many cars.
This is my first time upgrading to coil overs.
I dont understand some of the terminology.
I know what camber and toe are....but I dont know how to adjust it.
I understand I need to take my car to an alignment shop so they can optimize my camber.
I am buying a SPC rear camber kit. Im assuming I can install the camber kit and the shop will adjust the camber kit length for me?
What is preload?
What exactly do I just to adjust the hieght of my car? I understand I will get spanner wrenches with my coil covers. Where do I go from there?
Do I need an alignment everytime I adjust my coil overs?
Whats the key to getting your car lowered and having it be nice and even?
How can I get my camber to be spot on so that my tires dont wear out fast?
I know these maybe stupid questions to some of you but I will gladly help you in the future if you need any audio help
I can do a brake jobs, fluid swaps, and most easy to medium DIY jobs.
My biggest strength is audio. I can wire an entire car in an afternoon and tune it well enough to make you cry when you listen to Eric Clapton.
Im purchasing BC BR coil overs. Agian im new to this so im sure there are coil overs that are worlds better.
My main goal is to lower my car to what I think is right.
As far as the install, I know you are basically removing bolts and then reinstalling the entire coil and shock / strut assembly. I have done shocks on many cars.
This is my first time upgrading to coil overs.
I dont understand some of the terminology.
I know what camber and toe are....but I dont know how to adjust it.
I understand I need to take my car to an alignment shop so they can optimize my camber.
I am buying a SPC rear camber kit. Im assuming I can install the camber kit and the shop will adjust the camber kit length for me?
What is preload?
What exactly do I just to adjust the hieght of my car? I understand I will get spanner wrenches with my coil covers. Where do I go from there?
Do I need an alignment everytime I adjust my coil overs?
Whats the key to getting your car lowered and having it be nice and even?
How can I get my camber to be spot on so that my tires dont wear out fast?
I know these maybe stupid questions to some of you but I will gladly help you in the future if you need any audio help
09-21-2013, 06:33 PM
#2
Whoa! lots of questions! I will try to answer them to the best of my knowledge, anyone can feel free to correct me if anything is wrong =p. A few months ago i was thinking about going the same route as you (BC's),but i ended up going springs instead. Just google your questions and look around on different forums for the subjects you wish to understand more about.
Camber and Toe is adjusted when you bring your car to get it aligned on the 4-wheel alignment machine. When i lowered my sedan, i got both SPC front and rear camber kit to get the camper and toe back to factory spec to insure even tire wear(some can get it back w/o the kit). when you lower your car alot it throws off the camper and toe so thats where the kit comes into play. With the SPC kit you get:
Front Adjustment range: Camber: -2.5 degrees to +2.5 degrees.
Caster: -1.0 degrees to +1.0 degrees.
Rear Adjustment range: Camber ±4.00 degree Toe ±3.00 degree
As for preload, here is a good explanation i found a while ago from another forum ( i take no credit for this, just part of my favorited links/resources,copy&pasted)
Preloading coilovers really just carries over the same principle that we use with our McPherson struts...only it's not adjustable on our non-coilover struts. If you think about it, when you release the compression of the spring allowing it to seat on a normal strut setup, some tension is still left on the spring, which would also be considered preload.
Part of the reason to preload a spring has been stated above...to keep it from completely unseating. On a coilover, where the springs are typiclaly flat-tapered, rotation of the spring isn't that important...what you do want to prevent though is allowing the spring to unload enough to where it gets gets off-center and does not properly reseat. Additionally, springs are designed to work best under certain loads, much like the powerband of an engine works best within certain RPMs. By keeping the spring under at least a minimum preload, the spring is allowed to function as designed
There are 2 kinds of springs. Progressive, and Linear.
With progressive springs, as they compress the lighter rate coils compress, and force higher rate colis into action. Effectively increasing spring rate as they are compressed. Stock 240sx springs are progressive. (most stock springs are.) This type of spring is good for street driving b/c they are comfortable over small bumps, but tighten up as you start turning, or braking harder.
Linear springs are the same spring rate no matter how much they are compressed. Almost all coilover systems come with linear rate springs. Linear springs are much better for sport driving, b/c they are much mroe predictable, and make tuning your suspension much easier.
You can only preload springs with threaded shock body coilovers.
To preload a spring, you compress it b/w the upper and lower spring perches by adjusting the lower collar with the spanner wrench.
With linear springs:
When you put the weight of a corner of a car (probably around 700lbs) over your spring it compresses to absorb that weight. With 400lb spring, it will compress about 1 3/4". So, if you start with the lower collar so that it is just tight enough to hold the top of the spring against the upper perch this would be 0 preload. Raise the collar 1 3/4", and you now have 700lb's of preload. (arbitrary #'s for the sake of illustration.) Since you have preloaded the spring, the same weight as the car's corner, when you put the car on that spring, it will not compress at all, and will simply sit on top of the spring. If you were to hit a bump, the force would still compress the spring the same amount it normally would if you had set the spring to 0 preload. Now if you set the spring to say 900lbs of preload, when you hit the bump (say its a bump that generates around 250lbs of upward force), the spring will compress much less b/c the spring is already beyond the load specified to absorb the bump. Since there is only 50lbs beyond the preload, the spring will only compress about 1/8th inch, and the car will likely be launched over the bump.
You will likely never ever preload a spring beyond the weight of the corner of the car it is on for that exact reason. Springs are there to absorb bumps, if there are any bumps at all, this is a bad idea.
What good is preloading the spring then?
It can provide you with more suspension travel in certain situations. In the ideal world, having the spring at 0 preload would place the piston inside the shock exactly halfway through it's stroke (middle of shock) once the car's weight is resting on the spring. This is almost never the case. by preloading the spring, you can adjust the amount of rebound, or compression travel you have in the shock. If you preload like 200lbs, this will give you more compression travel, and will help keep your car from bottoming out when cornering. You have to be careful though, b/c you don't want to sacrifice too much rebound travel, or you could cause all sorts of other problems.
Progressive springs:
With progressive springs, preloading the spring does all the same things as linear springs, but it also increases the initial rate of the spring. So say you have a spring with a 200lb/in initial rate, and a 400lb/in max rate. (all progressive springs are rated this way.) Preloading 200lb's will compress the spring just under 1". Since the rate goes up with a function, it will have increased to probably somewhere around 250lb/in by the time you reach a 200lb preload. So now your initial rate is 250lb/in, with a max 0f 400lb/in.
You will likely never deal with this though, b/c very few coilover systems come with progressive springs, and remember you can't preload without adjustable spring perches. (coilovers)
You need to decide how much you want to lower your car then adjust accordingly during installing. I think it will take a few trial and errors before you find the perfect ride height you want and how much dampening (rebound & compression) you want. Im not 100% if you need a alignment everytime you adjust your coils but adjusting dampening shouldnt require another alignment(i think) but adjusting ride height, either higher or lower will change your camper and toe so pick your ride height carefully.
To get the most life and uniform wear out of your tires, camber and toe should be adjusted to factory spec or as close as you can get it to factory specs, the spc kit should get you there or close depending on how much you drop it. I remember reading somewhere a while ago that its Toe that kills tires not Camper, if this is not true, anyone feel free to correct me. Hope this helps and good luck!
Camber and Toe is adjusted when you bring your car to get it aligned on the 4-wheel alignment machine. When i lowered my sedan, i got both SPC front and rear camber kit to get the camper and toe back to factory spec to insure even tire wear(some can get it back w/o the kit). when you lower your car alot it throws off the camper and toe so thats where the kit comes into play. With the SPC kit you get:
Front Adjustment range: Camber: -2.5 degrees to +2.5 degrees.
Caster: -1.0 degrees to +1.0 degrees.
Rear Adjustment range: Camber ±4.00 degree Toe ±3.00 degree
As for preload, here is a good explanation i found a while ago from another forum ( i take no credit for this, just part of my favorited links/resources,copy&pasted)
Preloading coilovers really just carries over the same principle that we use with our McPherson struts...only it's not adjustable on our non-coilover struts. If you think about it, when you release the compression of the spring allowing it to seat on a normal strut setup, some tension is still left on the spring, which would also be considered preload.
Part of the reason to preload a spring has been stated above...to keep it from completely unseating. On a coilover, where the springs are typiclaly flat-tapered, rotation of the spring isn't that important...what you do want to prevent though is allowing the spring to unload enough to where it gets gets off-center and does not properly reseat. Additionally, springs are designed to work best under certain loads, much like the powerband of an engine works best within certain RPMs. By keeping the spring under at least a minimum preload, the spring is allowed to function as designed
There are 2 kinds of springs. Progressive, and Linear.
With progressive springs, as they compress the lighter rate coils compress, and force higher rate colis into action. Effectively increasing spring rate as they are compressed. Stock 240sx springs are progressive. (most stock springs are.) This type of spring is good for street driving b/c they are comfortable over small bumps, but tighten up as you start turning, or braking harder.
Linear springs are the same spring rate no matter how much they are compressed. Almost all coilover systems come with linear rate springs. Linear springs are much better for sport driving, b/c they are much mroe predictable, and make tuning your suspension much easier.
You can only preload springs with threaded shock body coilovers.
To preload a spring, you compress it b/w the upper and lower spring perches by adjusting the lower collar with the spanner wrench.
With linear springs:
When you put the weight of a corner of a car (probably around 700lbs) over your spring it compresses to absorb that weight. With 400lb spring, it will compress about 1 3/4". So, if you start with the lower collar so that it is just tight enough to hold the top of the spring against the upper perch this would be 0 preload. Raise the collar 1 3/4", and you now have 700lb's of preload. (arbitrary #'s for the sake of illustration.) Since you have preloaded the spring, the same weight as the car's corner, when you put the car on that spring, it will not compress at all, and will simply sit on top of the spring. If you were to hit a bump, the force would still compress the spring the same amount it normally would if you had set the spring to 0 preload. Now if you set the spring to say 900lbs of preload, when you hit the bump (say its a bump that generates around 250lbs of upward force), the spring will compress much less b/c the spring is already beyond the load specified to absorb the bump. Since there is only 50lbs beyond the preload, the spring will only compress about 1/8th inch, and the car will likely be launched over the bump.
You will likely never ever preload a spring beyond the weight of the corner of the car it is on for that exact reason. Springs are there to absorb bumps, if there are any bumps at all, this is a bad idea.
What good is preloading the spring then?
It can provide you with more suspension travel in certain situations. In the ideal world, having the spring at 0 preload would place the piston inside the shock exactly halfway through it's stroke (middle of shock) once the car's weight is resting on the spring. This is almost never the case. by preloading the spring, you can adjust the amount of rebound, or compression travel you have in the shock. If you preload like 200lbs, this will give you more compression travel, and will help keep your car from bottoming out when cornering. You have to be careful though, b/c you don't want to sacrifice too much rebound travel, or you could cause all sorts of other problems.
Progressive springs:
With progressive springs, preloading the spring does all the same things as linear springs, but it also increases the initial rate of the spring. So say you have a spring with a 200lb/in initial rate, and a 400lb/in max rate. (all progressive springs are rated this way.) Preloading 200lb's will compress the spring just under 1". Since the rate goes up with a function, it will have increased to probably somewhere around 250lb/in by the time you reach a 200lb preload. So now your initial rate is 250lb/in, with a max 0f 400lb/in.
You will likely never deal with this though, b/c very few coilover systems come with progressive springs, and remember you can't preload without adjustable spring perches. (coilovers)
You need to decide how much you want to lower your car then adjust accordingly during installing. I think it will take a few trial and errors before you find the perfect ride height you want and how much dampening (rebound & compression) you want. Im not 100% if you need a alignment everytime you adjust your coils but adjusting dampening shouldnt require another alignment(i think) but adjusting ride height, either higher or lower will change your camper and toe so pick your ride height carefully.
To get the most life and uniform wear out of your tires, camber and toe should be adjusted to factory spec or as close as you can get it to factory specs, the spc kit should get you there or close depending on how much you drop it. I remember reading somewhere a while ago that its Toe that kills tires not Camper, if this is not true, anyone feel free to correct me. Hope this helps and good luck!
09-21-2013, 07:23 PM
#3
Awesome reply nycty^^^
Keep in mind there are two coilover types that are available for the G, the OEM type which retains the separate rear spring and the "true" coilover which has the coil integrated on top of the shock. Both setups have the same setup in the front but the rear setup is where the differences occur.
There's also pillowball front mounts that many of the coilovers have, this setup is already preloaded and ready to go for a simple install. The other type requires using the OEM strut "hat" so you have to dissasemble your OEM struts and then preload the spring so more labor's involved.
There's also some coilovers that are only height adjustable and the damping is set at the factory. Others are height & damping adjustable so just be sure to get the ones you want.
With the OEM setup you need to preload the rear spring by putting a jack under the previously unloaded spring bucket (aka lower control arm) and put 10mm of load on the spring (this amount varies by manufacturer), then you adjust the shock length.
It can take a couple rounds of bolting things up to get the height where you want it. It's best to just snug up the mounting bolts, check the height, then once it's good do the final torque down, obviously do not do any driving while the bolts are just snugged
Coilovers don't settle as dramatic as lowering springs but may settle a little bit, so it's still best to wait a couple days prior to getting aligned.
I'd recommend getting the entire F&R camber kit along w/ the rear toe bolt unless you're dropping less than 1.5", but IMO it's best to have the full adjustment available even if you may not need it.
Keep in mind there are two coilover types that are available for the G, the OEM type which retains the separate rear spring and the "true" coilover which has the coil integrated on top of the shock. Both setups have the same setup in the front but the rear setup is where the differences occur.
There's also pillowball front mounts that many of the coilovers have, this setup is already preloaded and ready to go for a simple install. The other type requires using the OEM strut "hat" so you have to dissasemble your OEM struts and then preload the spring so more labor's involved.
There's also some coilovers that are only height adjustable and the damping is set at the factory. Others are height & damping adjustable so just be sure to get the ones you want.
With the OEM setup you need to preload the rear spring by putting a jack under the previously unloaded spring bucket (aka lower control arm) and put 10mm of load on the spring (this amount varies by manufacturer), then you adjust the shock length.
It can take a couple rounds of bolting things up to get the height where you want it. It's best to just snug up the mounting bolts, check the height, then once it's good do the final torque down, obviously do not do any driving while the bolts are just snugged
Coilovers don't settle as dramatic as lowering springs but may settle a little bit, so it's still best to wait a couple days prior to getting aligned.
I'd recommend getting the entire F&R camber kit along w/ the rear toe bolt unless you're dropping less than 1.5", but IMO it's best to have the full adjustment available even if you may not need it.
09-22-2013, 03:52 PM
#6
I think you'll find the coilover install pretty easy since you've done a fair amount of auto repairs, the hardest part is freeing the lower front strut nut, I found it easy after spraying w/ PB blast, using a 2 ft breaker bar and backing the inside nut w/ an open end wrench. If you go coilovers no need to remove your oem springs from the struts (unless your new coilovers don't have pillowball front mounts) so you can keep your stock parts intact if you ever want to put them back on later. Here's a decent DIY link
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/pro...n-part-ii.html
09-22-2013, 07:24 PM
#7
+2 for PB Blast, it works way better than WD40.
Sorry , did not mean to hikack the thread, but I have just one question and couldn't find any answers. Do we need front camber kits when the coilovers already have the adjustable camber plates? Thanks
Sorry , did not mean to hikack the thread, but I have just one question and couldn't find any answers. Do we need front camber kits when the coilovers already have the adjustable camber plates? Thanks
Last edited by teonguyen; 09-23-2013 at 03:02 PM.
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09-23-2013, 02:18 PM
#8
I have watched a few videos online that basically show you a step by step process of how to do each part of the installation.
I feel confident I can knock it out in 1-2 days but im going to give myself 3-4 days just in case something wild comes up.
I have an air ratchet that will hopefully help me get some of the hard to reach bolts out.
I feel confident I can knock it out in 1-2 days but im going to give myself 3-4 days just in case something wild comes up.
I have an air ratchet that will hopefully help me get some of the hard to reach bolts out.
09-23-2013, 02:32 PM
#9
I have watched a few videos online that basically show you a step by step process of how to do each part of the installation.
I feel confident I can knock it out in 1-2 days but im going to give myself 3-4 days just in case something wild comes up.
I have an air ratchet that will hopefully help me get some of the hard to reach bolts out.
I feel confident I can knock it out in 1-2 days but im going to give myself 3-4 days just in case something wild comes up.
I have an air ratchet that will hopefully help me get some of the hard to reach bolts out.
Let us know what coils & camber/toe kit you end up with and how the install went.
09-24-2013, 02:49 PM
#10
I have watched a few videos online that basically show you a step by step process of how to do each part of the installation.
I feel confident I can knock it out in 1-2 days but im going to give myself 3-4 days just in case something wild comes up.
I have an air ratchet that will hopefully help me get some of the hard to reach bolts out.
I feel confident I can knock it out in 1-2 days but im going to give myself 3-4 days just in case something wild comes up.
I have an air ratchet that will hopefully help me get some of the hard to reach bolts out.
Good luck guys!
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teonguyen (09-24-2013)
02-26-2014, 10:57 AM
#11
I should have updated this along time ago.
Thanks for all the advice.
I got it done in two days. One day was the removal and the other was the install. Probably took me a good 6-7 hours total. This is including little breaks and people talking to me in between.
The height adjustment took a little time but it wasn't terrible.
Thanks for all the advice.
I got it done in two days. One day was the removal and the other was the install. Probably took me a good 6-7 hours total. This is including little breaks and people talking to me in between.
The height adjustment took a little time but it wasn't terrible.
02-26-2014, 12:08 PM
#12
I should have updated this along time ago.
Thanks for all the advice.
I got it done in two days. One day was the removal and the other was the install. Probably took me a good 6-7 hours total. This is including little breaks and people talking to me in between.
The height adjustment took a little time but it wasn't terrible.
Thanks for all the advice.
I got it done in two days. One day was the removal and the other was the install. Probably took me a good 6-7 hours total. This is including little breaks and people talking to me in between.
The height adjustment took a little time but it wasn't terrible.
Any pics and what coils did you end up (if you got something other than the BCs) and camber kits, and how are you liking them?
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