TS Lip.. Who to go with?
01-28-2010, 09:14 PM
#76
BJ_ I apologize for contributing to the thread jacking.
Mike,
Exclusivity is exactly that. the price of that product dictates that only people of a certain stature or people who want to be seen as having a certain stature will go for the original parts.
As for your G37 vs Genesis question/analogy... the answer is clear as day. Everyone here bought the G because they could afford the extra $$$ to get it. People spend money on what they can afford.
Do you always buy the highest quality product for everything you purchase? Very unlikely. Like most everyone you probably either buy the highest quality product you can afford or do a cost vs benefit analysis and realize that for your needs, a cheaper options is better suited.
Anyone with even the slightest understanding of businesses and marketing knows that it s all about product positioning and brand image. TS is synonymous with High Quality which allows them to charge 2 to 3 times more for everything them make. The flip side is that it places them out of reach of many consumers. You can't seriously be upset because some1 is looking out for the "little people" and offering them an option
Don't get me wrong. I understand what you Ken and Emotiongear are saying and I'm all for getting more JDM product stateside and protecting them. However, you also must understand that the $$ being charged for the original TS products in itself created the market for the replicas.
Mike,
Exclusivity is exactly that. the price of that product dictates that only people of a certain stature or people who want to be seen as having a certain stature will go for the original parts.
As for your G37 vs Genesis question/analogy... the answer is clear as day. Everyone here bought the G because they could afford the extra $$$ to get it. People spend money on what they can afford.
Do you always buy the highest quality product for everything you purchase? Very unlikely. Like most everyone you probably either buy the highest quality product you can afford or do a cost vs benefit analysis and realize that for your needs, a cheaper options is better suited.
Anyone with even the slightest understanding of businesses and marketing knows that it s all about product positioning and brand image. TS is synonymous with High Quality which allows them to charge 2 to 3 times more for everything them make. The flip side is that it places them out of reach of many consumers. You can't seriously be upset because some1 is looking out for the "little people" and offering them an option
Don't get me wrong. I understand what you Ken and Emotiongear are saying and I'm all for getting more JDM product stateside and protecting them. However, you also must understand that the $$ being charged for the original TS products in itself created the market for the replicas.
The problem I have here, is that replicas are not LEGAL. Some parts are copied, and others are not. Why? Because legal action will be involved if certain parts are copied. TS happens to be one of those companies that don't directly distribute in North America.
Simply put, TS pulled out of distributing in North America due to replicas. Other companies simply do not enter the market, knowing of the reputation here.
INGS +1
Zele
Kenstyle
Chargespeed
Voltex
Mine's
JUN
Monster
Just a few who WILL NOT enter the G37 market due to replica problems. Vendors would love to sell more JDM product, but the companies simply refuse to sell them to distributors. Unfortunately the Infiniti Scene is not self-policing when it comes to high-end parts, unlike other makes/models.
As for affording the car, they can spend 10k more on a G, but not spend 1k more on a bumper? I find it puzzling, since the Genesis outperforms the G on a road course, stock for stock, and uses quite a few superior components. Styling is of course, subjective, but the majority of G buyers are poached BMW/Mercedes/Acura shoppers who bought the vehicle for its performance aspect.
01-28-2010, 10:30 PM
#78
Actually, I do. So-Cal members know all too well....
The problem I have here, is that replicas are not LEGAL. Some parts are copied, and others are not. Why? Because legal action will be involved if certain parts are copied. TS happens to be one of those companies that don't directly distribute in North America.
Simply put, TS pulled out of distributing in North America due to replicas. Other companies simply do not enter the market, knowing of the reputation here.
INGS +1
Zele
Kenstyle
Chargespeed
Voltex
Mine's
JUN
Monster
Just a few who WILL NOT enter the G37 market due to replica problems. Vendors would love to sell more JDM product, but the companies simply refuse to sell them to distributors. Unfortunately the Infiniti Scene is not self-policing when it comes to high-end parts, unlike other makes/models.
As for affording the car, they can spend 10k more on a G, but not spend 1k more on a bumper? I find it puzzling, since the Genesis outperforms the G on a road course, stock for stock, and uses quite a few superior components. Styling is of course, subjective, but the majority of G buyers are poached BMW/Mercedes/Acura shoppers who bought the vehicle for its performance aspect.
The problem I have here, is that replicas are not LEGAL. Some parts are copied, and others are not. Why? Because legal action will be involved if certain parts are copied. TS happens to be one of those companies that don't directly distribute in North America.
Simply put, TS pulled out of distributing in North America due to replicas. Other companies simply do not enter the market, knowing of the reputation here.
INGS +1
Zele
Kenstyle
Chargespeed
Voltex
Mine's
JUN
Monster
Just a few who WILL NOT enter the G37 market due to replica problems. Vendors would love to sell more JDM product, but the companies simply refuse to sell them to distributors. Unfortunately the Infiniti Scene is not self-policing when it comes to high-end parts, unlike other makes/models.
As for affording the car, they can spend 10k more on a G, but not spend 1k more on a bumper? I find it puzzling, since the Genesis outperforms the G on a road course, stock for stock, and uses quite a few superior components. Styling is of course, subjective, but the majority of G buyers are poached BMW/Mercedes/Acura shoppers who bought the vehicle for its performance aspect.
Zele
Impul
Both manufacturer listed above are also praised for the high quality, 100% fitment part they produce. I'll speak only for myself when I say that TS charges too much for their lip kit. Especially when Zele offers a full high Quality front bumper for an equivalent price ($1400s) and Impul offers their front lip (same as TS) for low $900s ($500 less).
As far as I can tell, there are no replicas of TS in Japan because there are rules and regulations against it. The same rules apply to Zele, Impul and any other manufacturer you listed above that could potentially offer a bodykit for the G37. If they so desired they could indeed manufacture a kit to be safely sold in Japan. Unless there is an article out there or official release from those guys saying that fear of US replicas is the reason for them not making a kit, your argument about why they aren't entering the market doesn't hold much ground IMHO.
Lastly, if you own a G, why did you buy it? how have you modded yours? Knowing that you put performance first, I am very interested in seeing what top quality parts have gone into your ride.
thanks
01-29-2010, 08:14 AM
#79
Well said Mike. Thank you
This isnt a Poly vs Fiberglass argument. People can go with what they prefer. They both have pros and cons. Same with molding vs add on. This is about a company being allowed to market its knock offs in the same place as the original designer/manufacturer..
It's one thing for a costumer to post pix of his car saying he bought a knock off, and another for the vendor to advertise saying buy my product instead of the original cos its cheaper.
If this is allowed on here, whats the point in us being sponsors here?
Yes, I will contact the company that runs this website, but if nothing will be done, then we cannot keep being vendors on here. Our business is a lot about the exclusivity of our product. We will be debuting a new Top Secret kit and other products in April, we have been discussing about price and details. We even brought up promotional ideas like a special discount for forum members to get more people to try Top Secret products.
I work directly with Top Secret and am involved in production from start to finish. Although im pretty busy, I have tried to make myself available to the members on here to hear everyone's input and ideas. Same with Ken. Top Secret can develop any part better than almost every performance company here and in Japan. We can certainly consider making something if there is demand for it, but that would also mean being able to promote it in a place where other companies are advertising knock offs of those same parts.
This isnt a Poly vs Fiberglass argument. People can go with what they prefer. They both have pros and cons. Same with molding vs add on. This is about a company being allowed to market its knock offs in the same place as the original designer/manufacturer..
It's one thing for a costumer to post pix of his car saying he bought a knock off, and another for the vendor to advertise saying buy my product instead of the original cos its cheaper.
If this is allowed on here, whats the point in us being sponsors here?
Yes, I will contact the company that runs this website, but if nothing will be done, then we cannot keep being vendors on here. Our business is a lot about the exclusivity of our product. We will be debuting a new Top Secret kit and other products in April, we have been discussing about price and details. We even brought up promotional ideas like a special discount for forum members to get more people to try Top Secret products.
I work directly with Top Secret and am involved in production from start to finish. Although im pretty busy, I have tried to make myself available to the members on here to hear everyone's input and ideas. Same with Ken. Top Secret can develop any part better than almost every performance company here and in Japan. We can certainly consider making something if there is demand for it, but that would also mean being able to promote it in a place where other companies are advertising knock offs of those same parts.
01-29-2010, 12:00 PM
#80
First off, nothing personal against Blackjack as I appreciate the education on Detailed Image company (my new hobby site).
Having said that I think you are out of line on this.
1) The knock-offs are illegal. Just because TS is not suing doesn't mean it is OK.
2) Top Secret (through a distributor) is a vendor here. That should earn some respect. You don't have to buy from them (I personally don't like their look), but you shouldn't be recommending or even plugging illegal knock-offs.
3) As a staff member you should be more careful in your tone. Recommending knock-offs? Telling a vendor to "deal with it"? Telling him you are fine with him leaving? If you were a paid employee, you would be fired, but I am assuming that being a mod is voluntary gig.
This site has a ton of stupid sponsors. Ford? Hyundai? Wheel makers that don't make Infiniti wheels???
People will always look for cheaper alternatives, but he IS A VENDOR and you ARE A MOD. Like it or not, you (and other mods) set the tone on this site, and I think you are way out of line on this one and that if this site had an owner that gave a crap, you would be fired or at least reprimanded.
You can't just attack, undermine or dismiss people on a personal whim, dressed as a mod.
Shane D
01-29-2010, 12:11 PM
#81
Been biting my tongue this, but as a business man I have to say something.
First off, nothing personal against Blackjack as I appreciate the education on Detailed Image company (my new hobby site).
Having said that I think you are out of line on this.
1) The knock-offs are illegal. Just because TS is not suing doesn't mean it is OK.
2) Top Secret (through a distributor) is a vendor here. That should earn some respect. You don't have to buy from them (I personally don't like their look), but you shouldn't be recommending or even plugging illegal knock-offs.
3) As a staff member you should be more careful in your tone. Recommending knock-offs? Telling a vendor to "deal with it"? Telling him you are fine with him leaving? If you were a paid employee, you would be fired, but I am assuming that being a mod is voluntary gig.
This site has a ton of stupid sponsors. Ford? Hyundai? Wheel makers that don't make Infiniti wheels???
People will always look for cheaper alternatives, but he IS A VENDOR and you ARE A MOD. Like it or not, you (and other mods) set the tone on this site, and I think you are way out of line on this one and that if this site had an owner that gave a crap, you would be fired or at least reprimanded.
You can't just attack, undermine or dismiss people on a personal whim, dressed as a mod.
Shane D
First off, nothing personal against Blackjack as I appreciate the education on Detailed Image company (my new hobby site).
Having said that I think you are out of line on this.
1) The knock-offs are illegal. Just because TS is not suing doesn't mean it is OK.
2) Top Secret (through a distributor) is a vendor here. That should earn some respect. You don't have to buy from them (I personally don't like their look), but you shouldn't be recommending or even plugging illegal knock-offs.
3) As a staff member you should be more careful in your tone. Recommending knock-offs? Telling a vendor to "deal with it"? Telling him you are fine with him leaving? If you were a paid employee, you would be fired, but I am assuming that being a mod is voluntary gig.
This site has a ton of stupid sponsors. Ford? Hyundai? Wheel makers that don't make Infiniti wheels???
People will always look for cheaper alternatives, but he IS A VENDOR and you ARE A MOD. Like it or not, you (and other mods) set the tone on this site, and I think you are way out of line on this one and that if this site had an owner that gave a crap, you would be fired or at least reprimanded.
You can't just attack, undermine or dismiss people on a personal whim, dressed as a mod.
Shane D
Just because I'd buy a replica, doesn't have anything to do with me being a mod. I am not attacking anyone, undermining, or dismissing anyone. I really do wish them luck should they decide to go to IB and I wish them luck in their sales of their authentic products. I sincerely do.
And until Top Secret goes to a court and gets replicas of their product considered illegal, I'm not recommending any illegal product.
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