Phew! I suck at typing so bear with me on this. Lets go through a basic 3.1 set up using 3 way components up front, with passive crossovers, an MS-8 and one 6 channel amp and one mono amp for the sub.

Signal comes from the OEM bose HU via line or speaker level signal. I have not checked myself yet, but Bose said they are not RCA's. That would go into the MS-8. If there are 4 signals coming from the HU then 4 inputs are used on the MS8. If there are only 2 signals, then only 2 get used. In these cases the remaining inputs can be used for other things like Ipods etc. Then you would take four of the MS8 outputs (front-left, front-right, sub and center) and they would go to their respective amps.

The fronts would go to the Zapco 6 channel. Even though it has built in fully adgustable crossovers, we will just pass through them with a full signal since the MS8 will be sending over the crossover signals. channels 1,2 will be bridged and go to the left-front set of components. Channels 3,4 will be bridged and sent to the right-front set of components. Channels 3,4 will be bridged and sent to the center channel. The monoblock amp will go straight to the sub.

As you can see, 4 outputs from the MS* have been used and that leaves 4 others open. If you wanted to, you could take those four outputs (left-rear side, right-rear side, left-rear, right-rear) and directly hook up the outputs to the speaker wires that drive those speakers in our car. No amp is required as the MS8 has a small one. This will give you a 7.1 system. If yo wanted say a 5.1 system then you would leave either the rear sides or the rears out.

Now lets say we want just a pure 2.1 system and with no passive crossover networks. We would then take 6 outputs from the MS8 with each going to a channel of the Zapco amp. Then the outputs from the amp would be as follows: ch1 > left tweeter/ ch2 > right tweeter/ ch 3 > left midrange/ ch4 > right midrange/ ch5 > left mid bass/ ch6 > right mid bass. You wouldn't be able to use L7 with this 2.1 setup, but you still get time alignment, equalization and fully adjustable crossovers along with frequency response curves that can be altered the way you want.

One thing to keep in mind is that you don't want to have after market speakers pushed by an external amp in the fronts and then just have the Bose center channel driven by the MS8. I have asked Andy about his opinion on this and he informed me that it would not sound good. So, I have decided that if I can't get an external speaker in that spot, then I will just omit the center channel and just go with a 2.1 setup and all of my speakers run with an active crossover network.

For the home speakers you referenced, you can look at the sets I listed. Dynaudios, Morels and DSL have great three way systems. B&W doesn't do car speakers, but many DIY'ers in car audio use home speakers in their setup, like Scan Speaks, SEAS etc. I personally don't want to alter my interior and will just be making my sub enclourse and an amp rack that will be under the rear trunk floor.

Honestly, If you went with the setup I am going with, I don't think you can go wrong. A six channel Zapco or any good six channel will be big, but need less wiring. One mono block amp for the sub will be small. Speakers are the most important in this setup. I am keeping everything inside stock looking so I need to see the size of the opening for the speakers before I can choose which I will go with. This setup, if run with the passive crossovers, is about the easiest and best you could do for a true surround system. And, I can still set everything up without the MS-8 and when it finally gets released, hopefully this spring, I can just add it into the system. When I am building mine I will be posting pics just to show for people who might be considering this avenue.

 

So the MS-8 is good enough to drive the center speaker only for ambient noise? Also, would it help to replace? Or the stock one should suffice?

And then why not use channel 5 off the zapco for rear left and channel 6 for rear right? But I guess that it will not be a true 7.1 system. Then why even get a 6 channel amp, why not a 4 channel amp since you are only using 1-2 and 3-4.

 

When typing, he said 1/2 bridge to left front speakers, 3/4 bridged to right front speakers, 3/4 bridged to center, but he meant 5/6 bridged to center. It was just a typo. So this 6 channel zapco powers front left ( passive crossover takes the input, 3 outputs to the 3 speakers in the left ), front right, and center. I would assume the center speakers DOES need to be replaced. Its probably just a 5 1/4 or a 6 incher.

Thanks for the REALLY good write up there BTW. One question I didn't see answered, does the center channel currently get used in music output in the bose system? If so, I assume wiring will be easy. If it is not used currently for the music output, then that means we may have to tap into it, correct?

 

aaah got it, yea thanks for the good write up. How hard is it really to set up the MS-8, for a beginner like me?

 

If the car is wired how I think it is, you'll have the bose amps with inputs and outputs to the speakers, so you just put the ms-8 in the back, take the inputs and put them into the ms-8, then from the ms-8 put it to whatever amp for that speaker, for instance the 6 channel amp, power the fronts/center ( wires for those speakers are already there, and then power a sub. All the wires should terminate in the back of the car somewhere. However if the speaker wire is not that good, we may have to replace it, which would make the install much more involved.

I'm hoping I can just swap some good components/center in, and use a 6 channel amp, and power the rest with the ms-8, do the L7 matrix, and be happy. Unfortunetely the ms-8 is going to be 800, and a decent 6 channel amp will be 300-600 bucks. A good set of components probably 250-350, good center another 80-100. Yuck.

 

Yeah, sorry about the typo. I have to look at my keyboard wen typing! LOL Anyways, the center channel should have as much power as the left and right fronts. In the bridged scenario, the center would be getting just as much as the 3 way components! Which would not be a concern, but according to Bose there is actually only a 3.25 in speaker there now!! Thats why I am concerned about being able to get even a good 5.25 coaxial in there.

As far as I know the center channel does currently get used for mid range and up duties on audio output. I don't think it is fed a signal from the HU, but I wouldn't know until I looked further. I briefly looked at the schematic in the service manual and it didn't look that way, but further research will tell us. As far as using the stock wiring for the speakers, I won't go that route, but with MAYBE some sacrifice in sound quality, it will be a hell of a lot easier to to rather than rewire everything. I HATE fishing wire through the door hinges! I might just actually make my amp rack and sub enclosure, drop my speakers in and then pay a shop to run my wiring! LOL Save me from the crappiest work!

 

No. You would only use the MS8 to drive the center channel if all of the other speakers were getting pushed by the MS8. In a surround format, your center channel is very important and should get basically the same amount of power as your left and right front speakers. This is so the center image stays are stage rock solid in the middle. If one does not care about surround processed sound then it is probably best to just eliminate the center channel and and just use the MS8 in a simple 2.1 setup. The time alignment will make the sound stage pretty damn good, but for only one seat. Who cares though as its the drivers car, right!? With the L& format and a center channel, all seats in the car get a great sound stage as if you were in a theater. The beauty of L7 is, unlike other surround formats that are processed for a room environment, it is processed for a car environment. So you don't get that thin empty kind of sound that some have come to know from DSP's in a car. Hope this helps and once I get started I will keep updates going. Its just to damn cold here now!

 

I am still debating about my front stage too. So far I have an AudioControl DQL-8 DSP and a DXS Crossover. I will be using DLS amps (A4 and A6). As far as bubs go I will get rifd of my JL W6's to replace them for the DLS free air subs. I will be selling the W6's with the custom G35/G35 enclosure soon. As far as the fron stage goes I was looking into the Rainbows, Hybrid, Hertz, Scan Speak, Seas, and off course the Dyns and Morels. After talking to a bunch of people I narrowed it down to two choices, the Hybrids and the DLS Nobeliums. Since everything else in my system is DLS I may just go for the Nobeliums. I can also get a really nice discount on DLS gear from the DLS distributor here in Miami.

Another thing that nobody has mentioned here is sound deadening. I will do my entire car. The interior will be completely stripped, dampened, wired and put back together. I think this is a must for an excellent sounding system. Also, I will have no reaer speakers.

What do you guys think?

 

sound deadening is definitely important. I will do that as well... when I get the time as that is a very time consuming process. I will personally leave the rears in the car, not sure if I will run them off the MS-8 or unplug them. But I will leave them in, just to have the option to hook them up or not.

 

So - this seems relatively straightforward, however, is the Bose amp also the crossover point for the door speakers? So the amp performs double-duty, crossover and amplification? Therefore, the Bose Amp should have something close to 10 outputs (+/- 1 for the center)???

Lee

 

Good choices, but I would much rather a sealed enclosure rather than infinite baffle design. less power requirements though. For an SQ setup, which seems your intention, I would go sealed. Also, don't talk to people. get out and listen if you can. No matter what speakers you pick, install is 90% of sounding good. If your sticking with stock placement, then you want to concern yourself with off axis responses. Also, if you are going with a 2-way front stage, realize that the midbass/range (door bottom) and tweeter (sail panel) are rather far apart and will cause issues with frequency responses and staging. If you wqent with a three way, then the midrange (upper door) and tweeter (sail panel) are very close and would lead to better response and imaging. Plus your midbasses are in the lower doors and in a threeway system, allows the midbass to not pull the vocals down like in a two way, although more crossover points leads to further need tweeking.

 

Yes, all processing is done via the DSP's in the amps (common now a days). There are two amps. The one small one is for the rear deck woofers if I read the schematic correctly. Have yet to rip anything out, but once the weather breaks and I get a chance, I will be taking my donut holder, so i can layout for my amp rack and sub enclosures.

 

You now have a PM from me with the DLS rep info.

 

Sounds like a good system to me. That's what I was going to in my A4. I had an Avic-D3 and I was going to run Hybrids (6-2) up front with the A6 and keep the stock Bose rears. I was then going to have an A4 power an ID 12" sub. Most of that will probably carry over if I get the G. I'm excited for the MS-8!